Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #20

[Credulious]

There is the Commodore, and the 50 Commodore fibres from Janes scene. There is the watch with forensic material.

Both Sarah and the Camry are missing at this point. :thinking: Where could they be?

Oops, someone didn't come forward.

 

[Credulious]

Oh, so you knew about the car but didn't come forward. Bang! Got ya!!!!

 

[lampformypath]

There is the Commodore, and the 50 Commodore fibres from Janes scene. There is the watch with forensic material.

Both Sarah and the Camry are missing at this point. :thinking: Where could they be?

Oops, someone didn't come forward.

Oh the watch! I'd forgotten about Jane's watch. She was even looking at it in the video checking the time. There's something about these items when you hear about them again, the really personal/individual things these women wore that brings it all back and makes you imagine how you'd feel if you as a mother, father, sibling, friend had given her that item as a present, or been with her when she picked it out, or every time you'd seen her she was wearing it/had it with her. Each of the girls - the jewellery she wore, that sunflower key ring she loved so much, that broach she'd brought on the last overseas trip maybe? It's just so heartbreaking. And the thought that the CSK has some of these precious and oh so personal items as "trophies" to relive his sadism, I can't even think of how angry that would make me as a family member or friend. It makes me angry just as a mother myself. There was a term my brothers and father always used for such a man, mongrel! (Insult to animals really, but it sounds right some how)

 

[Canning Vale]

With regard to the HD victim, I wonder if he ever bothered her again. Such as driving past the house or taking the dog for a walk. It would be interesting to know if she was stalked beforehand, such as receiving strange phone calls,or a techie within the street repairing the telephone wires.

I don't know if he had a dog. JMO

 

[Akai]

Oh WOW Akai that's incredible about your grandma and the lingering memory of her all those years later! Yes, I am well aware of the power of the sense of smell (olfactory system) and it's links to memory, recalling emotions, healing, etc. etc. Our daughter studied and qualified as a Clinical Aromatherapist (able to work in hospitals etc.) and I can remember when she was training we had many discussions about various essential oils and their benefits/properties, absolutely fascinating. I think this is a whole area of suspect identification that who knows may even become mainstream one day. (And thanks Petedavo for your excellent reminder about Mr Stinky, le pew!) I think women particularly have highly tuned olfactory senses. I remember meeting a French woman once who's job it was to detect tiny differences in essential oil combinations in order to perfect new perfumes (very highly paid job!). Imagine perhaps in the future police taking swabs of suspects on some sort of special cloth (and this swab yielding a unique olfactory code) and having victims smell them in some sort of contained device? Not so far fetched. I am not suggesting this would be a major method for ruling suspects in or out, just as another tool.

Fascinating info and thoughts, especially about your daughter. I can see why we both had the same thought about smell.

I agree that one day this could become an additional tool in crime solving. It obviously has in cases where it is clear cut (e.g. Mr Stinky). However from what you have said about your daughter's profession we are much closer than I would have imagined.

Thanks for sharing.


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[Kambo]

Deleted

 

[lampformypath]

Fascinating info and thoughts, especially about your daughter. I can see why we both had the same thought about smell.

I agree that one day this could become an additional tool in crime solving. It obviously has in cases where it is clear cut (e.g. Mr Stinky). However from what you have said about your daughter's profession we are much closer than I would have imagined.

Thanks for sharing.


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Thanks so much Akai for your lovely reply. Thought it was kind of out there trying to think of how they'd use the olfactory info, but hey, DNA testing was "out there" once. You have to put things out to the Universe and who knows who will pick them up and run with them. (Like a dog with a bone?)

Dogs have shown the power of the olfactory system in detecting cancer in patients, drugs/bombs in luggage/mail, even picking up that a person is about to have an epileptic fit etc. etc.

Things like this:


https://www.mnn.com/family/pets/stories/6-medical-conditions-that-dogs-can-sniff

and this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4705269/


Perhaps we should be using dogs to help sniff out suspects! To confirm a positive swab that a victim has identified as being her attacker and in a line-up, see if the specially trained dog agrees and goes to that person after the doggie's had a sniff!! Grrrreat idea??:crazy:

 

[aussiereader4]

When vision is impaired, by hood or simply because it's very dark and adrenaline is surging other senses are heightened.

Raymond Edmunds (Mr Stinky) serial rapist and killer was known for having a distinctive smell. When he was eventually caught, it was found he worked a dairy farm.

The night of the KK rape was a full moon.

 

[Innerchild]

At this point it appears police are trying to connect the kimono to the clothes line used in the crimes. Being mindful the clothes line has the ink from silk screen printing on it.

If it is connected to the clothes line, say belonged to floreat mans wife who lived in Huntingdale clothes line theft, that would mean another connection.

So while there is DNA connection, forensic links to all the crimes would mean multiple layers of connection across the crimes.

If that is the case, disconnecting DNA from the crime would contradict the forensic links with the crimes. Visa versa

Defense has to dismiss both connections with the crimes. Forensic links and DNA links.

<modsnip>

What connection at all is there to the Kimono to any clothes line?

<modsnip>

Ink screen printing on it... from the clothes line that the kimono was on and was stolen, and then kept in his pocket for 7 years until he raped a victim at KK cemetery!!

DNA was gathered from the KK rape victim, not at Hollywood Hospital where she first went but under police supervision at a registered hospital. They had no match for this DNA and did not think to check it with the DNA on a kimono from a Huntingdale incident 7 years earlier. Who would think they could be connected, initially?

The cemetery rape happened 11 months before the Claremont killings started.

The POST claims police found a &#8220;forensic link&#8221; *between that rape &#8212; and Glennon&#8217;s murderer. That *evidence was reportedly uncovered in 2009 as a result of a cold case *review that started in 2004...
True-crime author and suburban newspaper proprietor Bret Christian explosively claimed on the front page of his POST Newspapers yesterday that police have known for six years that a man who abducted and raped a teenage girl at Karrakatta Cemetery in 1995 is the killer of 27-year-old lawyer Ciara Glennon, the third and last-known victim of the Claremont serial killer in 1997.
But now they must find him.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...h/news-story/f5031c4c360c4dbbccc48d251ec5983f


I have never seen a report that says what the forensic link is, so can you publish that link?

It has to be something from Ciara that has the killers DNA on it, and this DNA has been matched to the accused and the same DNA as KK an Huntingdale crimes.

It could possibly be rope that contains the killers DNA, (not clothes line) but not some unique clothes line stolen with when stealing a kimono to be used in any other crimes as you keep trumpeting on about. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Innerchild]

Whoa.........Datsun 260C is the same car listed with Kerry Turner.....

"The person in the car called out and Kerry turned around and walked back to the car, spoke to the person, and then got in the car and left and that was the last time she was seen alive that we know of."

Police hunted for the vehicle, described by witnesses as a dark blue car, similar to a Datsun 260C, which had spoked wheels, but came up empty handed.

It was one of the few leads they had into Kerry's disappearance.

See here:
www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/she-accepted-a-lift-and-never-seen-again-unsolved-murder-of-teen-kerry-turner-20160628-gptg4f.html

I've thought the same 88mph as one of the most respected cops usually reticent with words was "very confident" that finding the driver of the metallic green Datsun 260C would solve the murder of Vanessa Devlin.

However he was wrong when 46 year old Tilbury confessed. They never found the car or the driver which they'd also linked to being the south side rapist and may have thought he's struck again in Kerry Turner's case.

 

[Innerchild]

On the surface, Victorias murder was really about protecting Mr Big heroin

His background views on his life as a prisoner at Fremantle Prison, views on homosexuality, capital punishment. Tilbury was convicted in 1971 for the murder of Lynette Robeson and again in 1989 for the murder of Vanessa Devlin.
https://beta.worldcat.org/archivegrid/collection/data/762912744

According to "Brian" one of the ex police witnesses in Shirley Finn's inquest Mr Big in Perth in the late 80's involved some top WA cops. A couple of cops already mentioned in Finn's inquiry and the only non NZ member of the "Mr Big" syndicate that I know of, and probably the only one that lived. He did a small amount of time in jail.

"Brian" made these drug dealing allegations with police connections in a 99 page letter to parliament.

So in hindsight it may have been more about protecting the local big wig cops from the Federal cops. "Quid pro quo"

 

[Credulious]

Clothes missing

Oh the watch! I'd forgotten about Jane's watch. She was even looking at it in the video checking the time. There's something about these items when you hear about them again, the really personal/individual things these women wore that brings it all back and makes you imagine how you'd feel if you as a mother, father, sibling, friend had given her that item as a present, or been with her when she picked it out, or every time you'd seen her she was wearing it/had it with her. Each of the girls - the jewellery she wore, that sunflower key ring she loved so much, that broach she'd brought on the last overseas trip maybe? It's just so heartbreaking. And the thought that the CSK has some of these precious and oh so personal items as "trophies" to relive his sadism, I can't even think of how angry that would make me as a family member or friend. It makes me angry just as a mother myself. There was a term my brothers and father always used for such a man, mongrel! (Insult to animals really, but it sounds right some how)

 

[Innerchild]

Clothes missing

Correct not the clothesline you keep talking about.

Then you keep talking about this imaginary clothes line being used in the KK rape and kepat again for Ciar's abduction and murder and therefore is the link! between the two events!

 

[meticulously]

Are you fkkn serious?

What connection at all is there to the Kimono to any clothes line?

What warped sense of reasoning do you get him stealing clothes line that the kimono was on??

Ink screen printing on it... from the clothes line that the kimono was on and was stolen, and then kept in his pocket for 7 years until he raped a victim at KK cemetery!!

DNA was gathered from the KK rape victim, not at Hollywood Hospital where she first went but under police supervision at a registered hospital. They had no match for this DNA and did not think to check it with the DNA on a kimono from a Huntingdale incident 7 years earlier. Who would think they could be connected, initially?

The cemetery rape happened 11 months before the Claremont killings started.

The POST claims police found a “forensic link” *between that rape — and Glennon’s murderer. That *evidence was reportedly uncovered in 2009 as a result of a cold case *review that started in 2004...
True-crime author and suburban newspaper proprietor Bret Christian explosively claimed on the front page of his POST Newspapers yesterday that police have known for six years that a man who abducted and raped a teenage girl at Karrakatta Cemetery in 1995 is the killer of 27-year-old lawyer Ciara Glennon, the third and last-known victim of the Claremont serial killer in 1997.
But now they must find him.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...h/news-story/f5031c4c360c4dbbccc48d251ec5983f


I have never seen a report that says what the forensic link is, so can you publish that link?

It has to be something from Ciara that has the killers DNA on it, and this DNA has been matched to the accused and the same DNA as KK an Huntingdale crimes.

It could possibly be rope that contains the killers DNA, (not clothes line) but not some unique clothes line stolen with when stealing a kimono to be used in any other crimes as you keep trumpeting on about. Just my opinion of course.

"DNA was gathered from the KK rape victim, not at Hollywood Hospital where she first went but under police supervision at a registered hospital."

How do you know that Innerchild ,
Thats not reported anywhere is it ?
TiA

 

[meticulously]

The night of the KK rape was a full moon.

Really.... can you post the link please ?
Thanks... thats interesting .
What about Huntingdale assault while we are at it ?

 

[apoptosisfutz]

The night of the KK rape was a full moon.

KK was Sunday 12 February according to the source i could find.

Wednesday 15 February was a full moon according this website.

http://www.fullmoon.info/en/fullmoon-calendar/1995.html

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[DRT]

Anything before around 1996 you have to source from the Bayte Library microfiche.

Its a 4 hour flight if I want to access the Battye library so I tend to use online sources.

 

[janwa]

Correct not the clothesline you keep talking about.
Then you keep talking about this imaginary clothes line being used in the KK rape and kepat again for Ciar's abduction and murder and therefore is the link! between the two events!

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...vestigate-1995-rape-lead-20151016-gkaq8i.html

It would imply he grabbed her in the subway, put something over head and tied her up so full moon or not she was in the dark.

She thought he tied her up with telephone line which to my mind means it was telephone cable not rope or thin Coles/Woolworths washing line. The only telephone line I know is the thin STRONG plastic coated wire that goes from the wall to the telephone.


"The young woman, the 17-year-old, she was walking to a friend's place in Gugeri Street near the Claremont Showgrounds and she never made it," he said. "She made it as far as the Showgrounds subway and a man grabbed her, put something over her head, tied her, up - she said with telephone cable - and bundled her into the back of what she said was a commercial vehicle, and drove her deep into the cemetery, where she was sexually assaulted.
"She told police she didn't see the man, didn't have a description of him and was let go, with no clothes, and ran to Hollywood Hospital, which was on the other side of the cemetery.

 

[Pandit]

Hi PD,

I didn't see this post earlier before making one on Mr Stinky from Victoria. There must be two. The Victorian Mr Stinky was a thief, a snowdropper, sexually abused his daughter, killer of women and men and a serial rapist who eluded the police for a very long time.

He's probably proof serial offenders don't stick to one specific MO or signature and they can appear to de-escalate. The rape/murders he was convicted of were in 1966, he went on from there to commit many more rapes until he was finally caught in 1985.

Although still a suspect in other murders.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...urray-river-camping-spot-20150116-12rzm2.html

There was a prolific rapist in the Southern suburbs, who was nicknamed Mr Stinky, by WAPOL. From memory, I think they got him when he moved to Geraldton.

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[El Gordo]

Full moons , of course , is BRE particularly hirsute , was there unusual howling heard on the nights , has he ever been known as fang