Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #2

[Mel 1303]

Id like to know more about the car sale too. As youve said Mel1303 not because theres anything dodgy about the sale but because it says something about Marions interaction with her past life after her disappearance.

I remember Sally saying she'd held onto the car money because of the suspect transactions but do we know when the sale happened? (Sorry to be lazy it's just so hard to find information in the podcast episodes!)
It would be good to confirm if the car had been sold at the time when Sally reported her mum missing and contact was made with Marion. If Marion was in contact with someone from her old life youd expect she'd know about the sale when it happened, but if she found out through the dept of roads and transport (confirmation of the transfer of ownership/registration) then it may have been weeks before she knew the car had sold.

We don't know when the sale happened, but Sally said she did not put the money into the account on her grandfathers advise, as there was money coming out of her accounts, which to me indicates the sale happened after Sally found out about the money.
BBM- if the bank knew how to contact Marion, after Sally reported her missing, then potentially other places knew how to contact her, also.

 

[thunderwombat]

Id like to know more about the car sale too. As youve said Mel1303 not because theres anything dodgy about the sale but because it says something about Marions interaction with her past life after her disappearance.

I remember Sally saying she'd held onto the car money because of the suspect transactions but do we know when the sale happened? (Sorry to be lazy it's just so hard to find information in the podcast episodes!)
It would be good to confirm if the car had been sold at the time when Sally reported her mum missing and contact was made with Marion. If Marion was in contact with someone from her old life youd expect she'd know about the sale when it happened, but if she found out through the dept of roads and transport (confirmation of the transfer of ownership/registration) then it may have been weeks before she knew the car had sold.

First time commenter here so I hope this shows up OK. I asked the same question on the facebook page, saying I was confused about the timeline re: the car sale. The question got deleted without a reply, so I'm still unsure. It was addressed on one of the earlier episodes, Sally remarked that she had had a lot of similar enquiries and explained it, but I'm afraid I couldn't understand it. Sally did mention on the podcast, not sure if it was the same episode, that she herself kept Marion's car but sold her own car which she had discussed previously with Marion. I wish there was a transcript so I could just CTRL-F.

 

[Jo3]

Also first time commenter. NSW police seem pretty certain that it was Marion who used passport and withdrew the money. If she arrived back in Australia on the 2nd August, withdrew the money late August early Sept, closed Colonial account mid Oct and used medicare card about same time, that means she was in NSW/Queensland for at least 10 weeks, and didn’t contact her family. I agree with earlier posts that she got involved with a cult. Only scenario that makes sense. (Kenja has interesting OFFICIAL videos on youtube. )

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

First time commenter here so I hope this shows up OK. I asked the same question on the facebook page, saying I was confused about the timeline re: the car sale. The question got deleted without a reply, so I'm still unsure. It was addressed on one of the earlier episodes, Sally remarked that she had had a lot of similar enquiries and explained it, but I'm afraid I couldn't understand it. Sally did mention on the podcast, not sure if it was the same episode, that she herself kept Marion's car but sold her own car which she had discussed previously with Marion. I wish there was a transcript so I could just CTRL-F.

A transcript would be so handy!! The Facebook page appears to be fairly closely controlled. I've had a (innoculous) post deleted too. I guess they're concerned some topics will attract negative comments even if the post itself isnt negative.

 

[thunderwombat]

A transcript would be so handy!! The Facebook page appears to be fairly closely controlled. I've had a (innoculous) post deleted too. I guess they're concerned some topics will attract negative comments even if the post itself isnt negative.

Any fair criticism is dismissed as trolling or bullying. I think most of us here, or Facebook and other forums, feel desperately sad for the situation that Sally is in and want the case solved for her sake.

 

[Mel 1303]

Also first time commenter. NSW police seem pretty certain that it was Marion who used passport and withdrew the money. If she arrived back in Australia on the 2nd August, withdrew the money late August early Sept, closed Colonial account mid Oct and used medicare card about same time, that means she was in NSW/Queensland for at least 10 weeks, and didn’t contact her family. I agree with earlier posts that she got involved with a cult. Only scenario that makes sense. (Kenja has interesting OFFICIAL videos on youtube. )

I am not sure about the cult, but I agree that the police believe Marion returned to the country and withdrew her money. The Salvation Army came to the same conclusion.

 

[thunderwombat]

The new episode is out and I feel that Alison Sandy really needs to work on her interview skills. I don't understand why a translator was not used, for one thing. Yes, he understands English - everybody in Europe understands some English - hardly the same as being a fluent speaker. Hearing Ms Sandy say over and over again "the ad in Ler Coo-ree-ay Oz- tray-lee-UGH" in her broad accent and expecting him to understand was too much. At one point she even said "the ad YOU placed". When he asked for Sally's contact details all she she had to do was give the address, or P.O. box of her own company, which is what she eventually did anyway.

Nothing new was learned in this episode, at least for me. I was hoping the mystery person was the pilot, or the tall man in the car, or someone from the bank.

 

[poppypopcorn]

Have just listened to the latest episode. Couple of points....

Fernand - yes he's upset and yes he's evasive and hostile. I think I'd be too in his shoes, especially at 7am and especially if he's never been to Australia. The podcast crew, albeit with the best intentions, went about Fernand in entirely the wrong way and put him on the defensive from the get go. I don't think they are going to be able to ever get a decent interview from him, he has already decided they've cast him as the murderous villain.

Susie - I don't think Alison was clear enough in her narration just how FAR Barrow in Furness is from where Marion was in Sussex. It's literally the other end of the country. The Lake District, or "The Lakes" (not the Lakes District) is beautiful and very scenic. But if you were planning on hooking up with an old acquaintance there, you would not spend your time in Sussex. Susie is a total red herring and nothing to do with this case whatsoever, in my opinion.

All a bit nothing-y really as far as episodes go.

 

[Garyb]

Well that was disappointing. An episode which basically had nothing new.
Felt sorry for mr Ramikel and partner. To be called at 7am by a stranger babbling on in Australianised English. She kept asking about the "add" in the paper. I'm sure someone with english as a second language would understand if the word advertisement had been used.
The wifes comments about "you dont realise what you are doing to us" was quite telling. I imagine they are being trolled with phone calls and letters. No wonder he wouldn't give out his email address.
Asking to contact Sally directly was quite reasonable i thought.

Completly confused about Susy Cooper. I thought she had taught at TSS for some time not just a fleeting visit.

 

[sunnynz]

Well I just spent the last two hours reading over the last two months of posts. I had been thinking for a couple of months how odd it was that no one was posting in the Marion Barter websleuths thread. Turns out I just hadn't turned on alerts for thread #2. Ha, what a dork!

Anyway, am halfway through the latest episode and have heard the Remakel and Susie Cooper parts. Thoughts:

Remakel: there is no doubt that Alison has a terrible bedside manner when it comes to interviewing - she doesn't listen and talks over the top of people so she misses what they're trying to say. He was clearly saying that he wants clarity on the identity of Sally so that they're on an even keel about what they know about each other, he said he wants that info by post and then he will consider answering the questions. I heard him say those things multiple times but she just kept banging on. So frustrating! However... I do still think that Remakel is hiding something. He is too evasive. He could have put this to bed by answering the written questions that were sent to him in Luxembourgish. This is all purely my opinion but he comes across as very cold and arrogant and with a trait that I find very particular to many men of a certain generation who like to confuse and 'one up' women in conversation to try and get an upper hand. I don't know if I'm explaining that well but when he became very pedantic over the semantics of certain things (like whether he had actually signed an acceptance of the package), he seems like he's trying to distract Alison away from the main purpose of her conversation by confusing her. Anyway, being a bit of a jerk doesn't make him guilty of anything I know, but I certainly felt like he was deliberately trying to steer the conversation off course.

Susie Cooper: interesting that she has now decided not to talk to Sally. Why??? If she got on with Marion, felt sad about the news of her disappearance and felt sympathetic to Sally, why would she at least not have one conversation with her. All these blimmin cagey people just make themselves look suspicious by not wanting to talk. If someone contacted me out of the blue I'd at least give them the time of day, even if I knew I wasn't going to be able to tell them anything useful. Hanging up on phone calls and what not is just not something I'd ever do. I'm of a younger generation that these people but I also can't imagine my parents just hanging up on phone calls either. This woman was a school principal, it's not like she's not had a lifetime of politely conversing with a range of people. So weird.

 

[thunderwombat]

Well I just spent the last two hours reading over the last two months of posts. I had been thinking for a couple of months how odd it was that no one was posting in the Marion Barter websleuths thread. Turns out I just hadn't turned on alerts for thread #2. Ha, what a dork!

Anyway, am halfway through the latest episode and have heard the Remakel and Susie Cooper parts. Thoughts:

Remakel: there is no doubt that Alison has a terrible bedside manner when it comes to interviewing - she doesn't listen and talks over the top of people so she misses what they're trying to say. He was clearly saying that he wants clarity on the identity of Sally so that they're on an even keel about what they know about each other, he said he wants that info by post and then he will consider answering the questions. I heard him say those things multiple times but she just kept banging on. So frustrating! However... I do still think that Remakel is hiding something. He is too evasive. He could have put this to bed by answering the written questions that were sent to him in Luxembourgish. This is all purely my opinion but he comes across as very cold and arrogant and with a trait that I find very particular to many men of a certain generation who like to confuse and 'one up' women in conversation to try and get an upper hand. I don't know if I'm explaining that well but when he became very pedantic over the semantics of certain things (like whether he had actually signed an acceptance of the package), he seems like he's trying to distract Alison away from the main purpose of her conversation by confusing her. Anyway, being a bit of a jerk doesn't make him guilty of anything I know, but I certainly felt like he was deliberately trying to steer the conversation off course.

Susie Cooper: interesting that she has now decided not to talk to Sally. Why??? If she got on with Marion, felt sad about the news of her disappearance and felt sympathetic to Sally, why would she at least not have one conversation with her. All these blimmin cagey people just make themselves look suspicious by not wanting to talk. If someone contacted me out of the blue I'd at least give them the time of day, even if I knew I wasn't going to be able to tell them anything useful. Hanging up on phone calls and what not is just not something I'd ever do. I'm of a younger generation that these people but I also can't imagine my parents just hanging up on phone calls either. This woman was a school principal, it's not like she's not had a lifetime of politely conversing with a range of people. So weird.

I get what you mean, but sometimes people just refuse to believe that there is nothing to add to the conversation. I don't think Susie Cooper is being cagey, just that she has said all she remembers, she feels sorry for Sally but has said all she wants to say. Also she may have googled The Lady Vanishes and been concerned at some of the comments and didn't want to get further involved. Earlier on there were lots of comments about the neighbour Lesley, how she must have know things and was hiding important information. A perfectly nice lady who had told all she knew and didn't want to keep repeating it.

 

[thunderwombat]

I dare say this has already been mentioned, but I was just browsing through some Luxembourg newspapers and found out that the head of the teacher's union over there is named Patrick Remakel!

 

[K8g]

I can't quote this properly as it's from Thread #1

Have been putting these words up for translation, and it says this: "stateless, wife of Monsieur (sans etat, epouse de Monsieur) !! That's interesting ...... ?
stateless
adjective: stateless

1. (of a person) not recognized as a citizen of any country

Madame Marie-Anne Jeanne Ernestine Remakel, sans état, épouse de Monsieur Carlo Schlesser, née à Luxembourg, le 27 août 1950, ...

@Itsapuzzle - Did you find anything further about this? I reached the same point when Googling, and came here to see that you're already onto it. Wow.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I can't quote this properly as it's from Thread #1


@Itsapuzzle - Did you find anything further about this? I reached the same point when Googling, and came here to see that you're already onto it. Wow.

K8g, I received this answer from Joni, have just copied it here for you. Cheers
"Thank you ! Yes, it is meaning "without occupation" in this context , my eyes popped out when I saw this the first time as well !"
Page 12 - thread 1
Joni C, Jun 7, 2019
#234 -

 

[K8g]

K8g, I received this answer from Joni, have just copied it here for you. Cheers
"Thank you ! Yes, it is meaning "without occupation" in this context , my eyes popped out when I saw this the first time as well !"
Page 12 - thread 1

Thanks for that. Sorry, I probably should've continued on reading. Got a bit excited there for a minute...

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Episode 15 ............... nooooooooo ..... as far as I can tell no-one knows who placed the Monsieur Remakel ad or what the F stands for ... could be Felix or Fritz for all we know, and yet .... yet in the phone call when speaking to Fernand (at 24.36) it is said "It's this advertisement, Le Courier Australien, 1994 Fernand Remakel wrote an advertisement looking" ... that's not right and not fair to Fernand ....
This situation with Fernand is beginning to remind me of Yossarian from Catch-22 ...

 

[KiwiNZ]

The call to Mr Remakel was uncomfortable to listen too, 7am is a ridiculous time to call retired people. I don’t think cultural difference or his / their age has at all been considered by Alison or the team, from day one it wasn’t the approch I would have taken but I have to give them credit for trying. Mr Copper reacted pretty much the same, that genaration tend to be suspicious, untrusting and don’t like to get involved. The team may want to reevaluate their approch if their “ people of interest” are of that age.

Personally I think he placed the ad, but most people would freak out if something you did 22 years ago was linked to a serious crime, some people will be open to discuss others will be afraid something false may be pinned on them, not everyone’s experience is the same so not everyone’s reaction will be the same. Also probally embarrassed by the ad, like most people would be in hindsight

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I thought Alisons 'interviews' with Marie and Ferdinand were shameful. She gets an elderly lady out of bed, doesnt warn her that the conversation is being recorded and after the woman tells her of the distress the podcast attention has caused Alison tries to intimidate her with an aggressive interview.
"He's the only one we havent spoken to"
"It's like police - we have to chase down..."
"I'm sure you dont want us to knock on your door again"
"If you answer we wont bother you again"

When Ferdinand talks about "secretly recording" he means without approval. He is expressing concern about being recorded without consent. He clearly feels threatened and in this situation people commonly request everything be put in writing. The demand for Sally's address is Ferdinand demonstrating how offensive channel 7s behaviour is. If they want his help they should have attempted to establish a respectful relationship (make an appointment, get to know him, build rapport) this is a characteristic of Luxembourgish culture. Alison was aggressive and disrespectful so he stonewalled her. Brian describes this as "contempt of Australia" but Ferdinand is actually displaying contempt for the conduct of the podcast.

The treatment of Suzie is also pretty questionable. The woman had only brief contact with Marion and it's quite clear she doesnt remember her very well. She was reticent to talk with Sally but agreed when pressed. She obviously changed her mind because her husband declined the call from Sally and hung up when Alison makes a follow up call. Why harrass an elderly lady who barely knew Marion and doesnt remember her? What possible benefit is there in sharing that Suzie wouldnt speak with Sally? That part should have been left out.

As lovely and interesting as Mark Leverson is I struggle to see how this is relevant. The police did not disregard Marion's disappearance because she was middle aged and 3 times divorced; they closed her case because it was determined she was missing of her own volition.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I thought Alisons 'interviews' with Marie and Ferdinand were shameful. She gets an elderly lady out of bed, doesnt warn her that the conversation is being recorded and after the woman tells her of the distress the podcast attention has caused Alison tries to intimidate her with an aggressive interview.
"He's the only one we havent spoken to"
"It's like police - we have to chase down..."
"I'm sure you dont want us to knock on your door again"
"If you answer we wont bother you again"

When Ferdinand talks about "secretly recording" he means without approval. He is expressing concern about being recorded without consent. He clearly feels threatened and in this situation people commonly request everything be put in writing. The demand for Sally's address is Ferdinand demonstrating how offensive channel 7s behaviour is. If they want his help they should have attempted to establish a respectful relationship (make an appointment, get to know him, build rapport) this is a characteristic of Luxembourgish culture. Alison was aggressive and disrespectful so he stonewalled her. Brian describes this as "contempt of Australia" but Ferdinand is actually displaying contempt for the conduct of the podcast.

The treatment of Suzie is also pretty questionable. The woman had only brief contact with Marion and it's quite clear she doesnt remember her very well. She was reticent to talk with Sally but agreed when pressed. She obviously changed her mind because her husband declined the call from Sally and hung up when Alison makes a follow up call. Why harrass an elderly lady who barely knew Marion and doesnt remember her? What possible benefit is there in sharing that Suzie wouldnt speak with Sally? That part should have been left out.

As lovely and interesting as Mark Leverson is I struggle to see how this is relevant. The police did not disregard Marion's disappearance because she was middle aged and 3 times divorced; they closed her case because it was determined she was missing of her own volition.

Agree Mrs Remakel was very sincere and obviously effected by this whole event, Alison was unfairly intimidating. I think in the same situation I would be unwilling to cooperate with the same approch.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Susie Cooper: interesting that she has now decided not to talk to Sally. Why??? If she got on with Marion, felt sad about the news of her disappearance and felt sympathetic to Sally, why would she at least not have one conversation with her. All these blimmin cagey people just make themselves look suspicious by not wanting to talk. If someone contacted me out of the blue I'd at least give them the time of day, even if I knew I wasn't going to be able to tell them anything useful. Hanging up on phone calls and what not is just not something I'd ever do. I'm of a younger generation that these people but I also can't imagine my parents just hanging up on phone calls either. This woman was a school principal, it's not like she's not had a lifetime of politely conversing with a range of people. So weird.

Hanging up is a strategy recommended to older people. It protects them from scams and helps them deal with tele-sales, charities and other calls that confuse or make them anxious.