Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Regarding Tunbridge Wells: in one of my many trips to England, an early one, I ended up in Tunbridge Wells. I don't believe it's such an odd destination. In my old lady memory, it was close to London. Easy train ride but rural and pretty. We used it as a jumping off place for hiring a rental car to take a tour on our own. Probably now very suburban, even urban. It was not touristy but more like seeing how UK people really lived. What struck me was not the destination-- it made sense if someone was trying to find a foothold or new life in England they'd choose a place like that-- but the cliche of her phone calls and postcards. Like RossCandyFloss says upthread. Like she wasn't there OR that she was not able to tell the truth of what she was up to, so she had to make stuff up. To keep her children and family happy and whoever she was with, happy. The trip was a lie. I believe she was there but I believe she was not honest about who she was with.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I not sure anyone at the bank would remember this. Foreign cash transactions are common activities. Once the teller had worked out with Marion the product she wanted (cash, draft, travellers cheque) they would have processed the activity like any other (10-15mins) and gotten on with their day. I know it sounds like such a lot of money but $20k isnt an uncommon or surprising value for that type of transaction. When the money became unclaimed 7 years later it would have gone to centralized processing not the branch. The bank would have the records though and hopefully police have them.

sorry, I should have been more clear I meant the transactions at the Bryon Bay bank of $5K per day. I am hoping the bank teller has gone to the police even if not speaking publicly.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

RSBM Totally! This destination has always seemed a decidedly odd one to choose to spend a lot of time holidaying, when you think of the myriad other places to choose from in the UK and Europe. She had already started to not tell her family the truth (name change) so unless someone finds proof Marion was actually in Tunbridge Wells then we have to take that with a grain of salt.

If there was an inward bound passenger card , would there be an outward bound one or anything for the 2nd leg? As it is, without that we have no proof she even went as far as the UK. There would need to be a passenger card that came from or was going to a UK airport- based on that, could hint at possibly where in the UK Marion was headed. Is there a reason only one has been accessed . To begin with, where is the outgoing card..I assume it was a universal rule that covered all airports, to fill out this card?

 

[Sophie-Renee]

As for Tunbridge Wells as a place itself, it would go along with Marion's talk of renting a car. Tunbridge Wells , although set apart from big cities - is not all that unusual if you are a person who is not into big cities and wants to explore smaller and more rural towns. Tunbridge Wells is not far from the High Weald Area of Natural Beauty and by all account the biggest town within the vicinity of this area. It would be a key place to head to and stay in order to explore the many smaller and quaint towns and villages around- such as Hawkhurst as just one example. These are the sort of places I could imagine Marion being interested in..the old, the quaint, the peaceful and more like the little backwaters of south England. I can't see her being as taken with the bustling streets of London, Birmingham or Manchester.
Here is the tourist site for Tunbridge Wells to give you an idea:

Visit Tunbridge Wells - Royal Tunbridge Wells Tourism Information

While am not saying Marion was definitely in Tunbridge Wells , really thinking about it for the average person it may not have been the first place they would ever think of to go to, but for Marion this sort of place may have been ideal. It would be like a British person heading to somewhere like Alice Springs as opposed to Sydney or Melbourne- somewhere my sister headed to and stayed on a working visa, while simply visiting Sydney before leaving.

 

[RossCandyfloss]

Not disputing Tunbridge Wells as a tourist destination at all! Lovely place. Great McDonald's and KFC.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Not disputing Tunbridge Wells as a tourist destination at all! Lovely place. Great McDonald's and KFC.

Not meaing you were, sorry if seemed it was aimed at you . I just meant in general, to the discussion around how random a place it is as a first choice.

 

[Meligator]

The letters/post cards she sent were postmarked from tunbridge wells & other places in UK, so I believe she was probably there. But if I’m remembering correctly, the first letter/note was sent June 30th. So there is about a week between when she left AU & when she first sent letter from UK. It’s possible she just didn’t get around to writing letters yet, but also possible she spent these days outside of UK. I also seem to recall that in one letter, Marion makes comment about having difficulty getting out of the East. Perhaps her flight out of japan was delayed OR perhaps she make this statement as an excuse to cover for not writing earlier and/or not being in UK in the early days of her trip?

 

[KiwiNZ]

As for Tunbridge Wells as a place itself, it would go along with Marion's talk of renting a car. Tunbridge Wells , although set apart from big cities - is not all that unusual if you are a person who is not into big cities and wants to explore smaller and more rural towns. Tunbridge Wells is not far from the High Weald Area of Natural Beauty and by all account the biggest town within the vicinity of this area. It would be a key place to head to and stay in order to explore the many smaller and quaint towns and villages around- such as Hawkhurst as just one example. These are the sort of places I could imagine Marion being interested in..the old, the quaint, the peaceful and more like the little backwaters of south England. I can't see her being as taken with the bustling streets of London, Birmingham or Manchester.
Here is the tourist site for Tunbridge Wells to give you an idea:

Visit Tunbridge Wells - Royal Tunbridge Wells Tourism Information

While am not saying Marion was definitely in Tunbridge Wells , really thinking about it for the average person it may not have been the first place they would ever think of to go to, but for Marion this sort of place may have been ideal. It would be like a British person heading to somewhere like Alice Springs as opposed to Sydney or Melbourne- somewhere my sister headed to and stayed on a working visa, while simply visiting Sydney before leaving.

I think going to Sussex was deliberate as she used CWB local agent based in Sussex rather than London, so to me she at least said to someone at the bank it was the Sussex area she was basing herself at. you don't need to collect your money from that agent, just that that was the address they used because it was in the area she intended to be. Most people travelling would indicate no fixed area so they would likely use the main London agent.

I guess we are all trying to figure out why Sussex, Tunbridge Wells, as it doesn't seem she said to Sally or family, why she was basing herself there.

People go to out of the way places all the time but normally if that was your base you would say to someone why.

 

[KiwiNZ]

If there was an inward bound passenger card , would there be an outward bound one or anything for the 2nd leg? As it is, without that we have no proof she even went as far as the UK. There would need to be a passenger card that came from or was going to a UK airport- based on that, could hint at possibly where in the UK Marion was headed. Is there a reason only one has been accessed . To begin with, where is the outgoing card..I assume it was a universal rule that covered all airports, to fill out this card?

There should be an departure card from Aus to Japan, she stayed in Japan so there should be an arrival card for Japan and then an departure card, Arrival card for the UK. Return leg departure card for the UK, arrival card for Hong Kong (assuming she stayed over night and passed through customs) departure card for HK and then the arrival card back to AUS. ** I don't think you complete an arrival card it your only transferring to another flight and not passing customs, but someone might want to correct me on this

That's a lot of cards, and all are kept and will be accessible by the police if the investigating team get approval to do so.

 

[Garyb]

As for Tunbridge Wells as a place itself, it would go along with Marion's talk of renting a car. Tunbridge Wells , although set apart from big cities - is not all that unusual if you are a person who is not into big cities and wants to explore smaller and more rural towns. Tunbridge Wells is not far from the High Weald Area of Natural Beauty and by all account the biggest town within the vicinity of this area. It would be a key place to head to and stay in order to explore the many smaller and quaint towns and villages around- such as Hawkhurst as just one example. These are the sort of places I could imagine Marion being interested in..the old, the quaint, the peaceful and more like the little backwaters of south England. I can't see her being as taken with the bustling streets of London, Birmingham or Manchester.
Here is the tourist site for Tunbridge Wells to give you an idea:

Visit Tunbridge Wells - Royal Tunbridge Wells Tourism Information

While am not saying Marion was definitely in Tunbridge Wells , really thinking about it for the average person it may not have been the first place they would ever think of to go to, but for Marion this sort of place may have been ideal. It would be like a British person heading to somewhere like Alice Springs as opposed to Sydney or Melbourne- somewhere my sister headed to and stayed on a working visa, while simply visiting Sydney before leaving.

Some years ago i did a driving trip out of
London. I went south though Tunbridge wells, then along the coast through places like winchester, Stonehenge to Cornwell.

There were lots of typical English villages, old castles and historic sites in the Tunbridge wells area.

At the time it seemed a logical way to travel around that southern area of England.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Yes, granted it seems she had no obvious connections there. I guess it is a bit of a case of why Tunbridge Wells as opposed to somewhere where there was connections. So she had family over there, but not in Sussex. So why there specifically? Marion must have had her reasons. I guess this goes along with the idea however that she was becoming more and more cagey. Did anyone ever ask her though? There is a lot of unanswered questions as to Marion's intentions or plans. Sally often says she doesn't know and it does make me wonder, well it is interesting also that nobody ever thought to ask. There are a lot of spaces where you would think the most natural questions, especially from friends or family would be no more than showing interest and caring. For some reason they either were not asked or Marion was not forthcoming. Also if the question as to why Tunbridge Wells was not asked, was it because for some reason those around her knew not to pry... Had they had short, curt answers before?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Apologies, I can't remember who came up with the idea earlier in the thread that the ad in the newspaper may have been some kind of code/message for someone .... but anyway, was just listening to an episode of Surviving Scientology and this was mentioned, so just putting it up here - food for thought - not necessarily for the scientology theme, but other possibilities.
"we had a system set up for if they needed to contact us they ran an ad in the personal classified section of the paper and we'd look at that every day, yeah, and then you'd see the ad, and okay, you then knew to go to a certain payphone at a certain hour, based on that ad, and wait for the phone call ... and then we'd work out where to meet, and so forth". Interesting enough though.
Forgiveness .... off topic for current discussion, just putting it out there before I forget

 

[KiwiNZ]

thoughts on the Advert - I think whomever placed the advert was in Australia as they also supplied a phone number not just an address. The person on the other end of the phone you would assume to be French speaking, otherwise why place the ad in a French newspaper and not an English one. If Fernand has never travelled to Aus then highly unlikely to be him, and more than likely to be someone using his name and not a honest person with honest intentions.

Maybe this ad under the name Remakel, or maybe they used no name but presented themselves as Remakel on meeting, was also placed in a local paper but we just can not find the advert. Does anyone know what local papers there were for Lennox Heads or Byron Bay area ?

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

thoughts on the Advert - I think whomever placed the advert was in Australia as they also supplied a phone number not just an address. The person on the other end of the phone you would assume to be French speaking, otherwise why place the ad in a French newspaper and not an English one. If Fernand has never travelled to Aus then highly unlikely to be him, and more than likely to be someone using his name and not a honest person with honest intentions.

Maybe this ad under the name Remakel, or maybe they used no name but presented themselves as Remakel on meeting, was also placed in a local paper but we just can not find the advert. Does anyone know what local papers there were for Lennox Heads or Byron Bay area ?

I agree with this and have also been wondering if other ads were placed in other newspapers.
I have wondered though, if the ad was a scam why place it in a French language newspaper in Australia where the amount of people who would read it would be so much smaller than an English language newspaper.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I agree with this and have also been wondering if other ads were placed in other newspapers.
I have wondered though, if the ad was a scam why place it in a French language newspaper in Australia where the amount of people who would read it would be so much smaller than an English language newspaper.

The only thing that really leads me to believe it was a scam is that there is no trace of a Remakel in Aus. They claim no Remakel has enter or left Australia but there is also the chance the spelling has been entered incorrectly in the database or the police used the incorrect spelling to search. However the person didn't fish very long, he only placed 1 ad, and I have searched every word he used in the ad and nothing is repeated in any other ads in the French paper.

My theory is if this situation involved a man, marriage, scam etc... then she met someone whom called themselves Remakel either via the ad or the same person under other circumstances.
or
If she just selected the name at random, from a book or knew it through teaching connection (the Remakels seem to have a connection to teaching) then her disappearance was voluntary disappearance.

that's my train of though …. at the moment lol

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

The only thing that really leads me to believe it was a scam is that there is no trace of a Remakel in Aus. They claim no Remakel has enter or left Australia but there is also the chance the spelling has been entered incorrectly in the database or the police used the incorrect spelling to search. However the person didn't fish very long, he only placed 1 ad, and I have searched every word he used in the ad and nothing is repeated in any other ads in the French paper.

My theory is if this situation involved a man, marriage, scam etc... then she met someone whom called themselves Remakel either via the ad or the same person under other circumstances.
or
If she just selected the name at random, from a book or knew it through teaching connection (the Remakels seem to have a connection to teaching) then her disappearance was voluntary disappearance.

that's my train of though …. at the moment lol

I agree, I think a scam is the best explanation for what happened. When you read the ad, it’s quite a lure too (he’s saying he’s educated, owns multiple properties, athletic, and wants to get married). I know these ads are about showing oneself off but I find the multiple property point and wanting to get married a bit over the top! And what happens to Marion, her passenger card says she is married and her new surname is remakel.
The odds of that (with the ad being placed near the Byron area) with remakel being such a rare name is so remote.
So yeah I’m definitely on the scam side but open to it being a real person too. I think the ad and Marion are most definitely linked.
It was just the point of would a scammer place the ad in French if they are trying to scam people (wouldn’t they want to target as many people as possible so place it in English).

 

[Meligator]

I agree, I think a scam is the best explanation for what happened. When you read the ad, it’s quite a lure too (he’s saying he’s educated, owns multiple properties, athletic, and wants to get married). I know these ads are about showing oneself off but I find the multiple property point and wanting to get married a bit over the top! And what happens to Marion, her passenger card says she is married and her new surname is remakel.
The odds of that (with the ad being placed near the Byron area) with remakel being such a rare name is so remote.
So yeah I’m definitely on the scam side but open to it being a real person too. I think the ad and Marion are most definitely linked.
It was just the point of would a scammer place the ad in French if they are trying to scam people (wouldn’t they want to target as many people as possible so place it in English).

The thing that is so odd is that there is nothing in the ad connecting it to Luxembourg, yet the only person matching the age/name in the ad lives in Lux and Marion wrote Lux on her passenger card. If the ad was written by the Fernand in Luxembourg, perhaps he was just an seeking a phone/letter companion (despite saying he wanted marriage). If it wasn’t written by Fernand, seems possibly written by someone who knew Fernand well enough to describe him & his accomplishments fairly accurately. Maybe an old Fernand acquaintance moves to NSW and tried to impress the ladies by pretending he is a successful professional/ former footballer.

In the end, however, I cannot see what benefit it would be for Marion to change her name to Remakel, even if she had contact with the person placing the ad. If she planned to marry this man, then she wouldn’t have needed to change her name in the manner she did. She could have changed her name by marriage.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I agree, I think a scam is the best explanation for what happened. When you read the ad, it’s quite a lure too (he’s saying he’s educated, owns multiple properties, athletic, and wants to get married). I know these ads are about showing oneself off but I find the multiple property point and wanting to get married a bit over the top! And what happens to Marion, her passenger card says she is married and her new surname is remakel.
The odds of that (with the ad being placed near the Byron area) with remakel being such a rare name is so remote.
So yeah I’m definitely on the scam side but open to it being a real person too. I think the ad and Marion are most definitely linked.
It was just the point of would a scammer place the ad in French if they are trying to scam people (wouldn’t they want to target as many people as possible so place it in English).

I am wondering if she meet him (same person that placed the ad) some other way rather than the advert, in the late 90's dating agencies were a bit of a craze or she could have meet him socially. His use of B.C.B.G makes me think he was no stranger to dating terms but maybe someone helped him with the ad.

A lot of the ads I checked did mention marriage, seems a bit odd these days but I think in the 90's marriage was more important than now.

It's driving me crazy not been able to find a link between Remakel and Australia

 

[KiwiNZ]

In the end, however, I cannot see what benefit it would be for Marion to change her name to Remakel, even if she had contact with the person placing the ad. If she planned to marry this man, then she wouldn’t have needed to change her name in the manner she did. She could have changed her name by marriage.[/QUOTE]

Agree I can't get my head around this

 

[Itsapuzzle]

In the end, however, I cannot see what benefit it would be for Marion to change her name to Remakel, even if she had contact with the person placing the ad. If she planned to marry this man, then she wouldn’t have needed to change her name in the manner she did. She could have changed her name by marriage.

Agree I can't get my head around this[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's a puzzle isn't it, why change your name to Remakel if you're marrying one .... and even more puzzling, who changes their first name after 51 years on earth, gives themselves a new first name, middle name and leaves their first name as a third name .... ??