Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #6

[TootsieFootsie]

Estelle, I think I misunderstood your post.

Of course she wouldn't have gone back for the clothes, for the reason that the cousin suspected something and told her that she had to get back to her home as fast as she could.
Seems the cousin was able to convince her to do that, and not wait for thingy to come back.

Turned out thingy did her a favour suggesting she stay with her cousin

The only reason I would have gone back to Amsterdam airport would have been to retrieve my documents if they were there. However, I think her cousin suspected foul play so there was no time to waste.

 

[KiwiNZ]

With JO, he couldn't even forge a death certificate in England if she was still alive so he needed JO alive, stranded for months in England and to use the P o A saying that she needed him to sell her property but she was in England and ill and they wanted to buy a house on the French Riviera.

With Marion, IMO RB thought he had gotten away with it once her identity was verified and Sally was told that she was safe and well but didn't want contact.

I felt like the lawyer was insinuating that it was a will she signed and not POA, I can't figure why he would ask her if she was sure it was a POA not a will ? Maybe they have evidence it was a will or maybe they have no evidence of the paperwork at all so just checking with her that there was no chance it was actually a will.

I guess a will would prove / look like he intended to kill her ?

 

[KiwiNZ]

I might be wrong but it looks like that 1977 address is a cemetery??Google Maps

I think it might be - 1/303 Old South Head Road, Bondi Beach, NSW 2026 (realestate.com.au)

Residence Address
0 1303 Old South Head Rd
Add Additional Information

 

[Estelle]

I have so much to say but I wish it made more sense. The luggage idea is a misnomer, on her part the entire 'luggage' was a full change of Summer clothes, including shoes. It was Summer at that time ... in Australia. So we have one full set of ladies clothes in an easily accessible location in Amsterdam, suitable for a Summer location.

He has her id, house title, citizenship, power of attorney, house keys and clothes. He doesn't have her passport. I desperately wanted them to ask her whose idea it was for her to keep it. I'm betting it was her one and only attempt at personal agency. You don't do these things to steal a small amount of jewellery.

He tells her to go to a specific travel agency. Clearly an accomplice or someone he's paid off to arrange (or not arrange) her travel.

Why has he got her documents? I think because he realised what a hassle it was if he convinced his victim to sell first. Much easier to just use your victims' documents to sell and take the money yourself.

So what's the truth of all of this?
-he uses circuitous rather than direct routes often in his travels -he's connected to a travel agency in the UK -he clearly targets single women in their 50s -he always visits them in their homes and drives their vehicles - he never drives the anywhere unless he was overseas. Supposing Marion did return, their/her only option would be motel accommodation. Presumably close to the branch where the withdrawals were made so she could walk from where she stayed.

I know this is a bit of a mess. I blame the case.

BBM He tells her to go to a specific travel agency. Clearly an accomplice or someone he's paid off to arrange (or not arrange) her travel.

IMO that would have been so that this person would advise him when she would be flying home. Was he going to pay for it?

BBM he never drives them anywhere unless he was overseas.

IMO that is because he doesn't want his victims to know his registration number to trace him. He probably drives to their places and parks a long way away.

 

[sunnynz]

I think it might be - 1/303 Old South Head Road, Bondi Beach, NSW 2026 (realestate.com.au)

Residence Address
0 1303 Old South Head Rd
Add Additional Information

Yes I think you’re right

 

[StarrChance]

Address for 1980 is 287 Military Road Dover Heights

Name
Frederick David De Hedervary
Gender
Male
Electoral Date
1980
Electoral Place
Rose Bay, Wentworth, New South Wales, Australia
Add Additional Information

 

[KiwiNZ]

Address for 1980 is 287 Military Road Dover Heights

Name
Frederick David De Hedervary
Gender
Male
Electoral Date
1980
Electoral Place
Rose Bay, Wentworth, New South Wales, Australia
Add Additional Information

I cant see any sales history for this house

STREETS WITH THE MOST HOMES WORTH $1 MILLION OR MORE

1. Military Rd, Dover Heights, Sydney

2. Raglan St, Mosman, Sydney

3. Broome St, Cottesloe, Perth

4. Edinburgh Rd, Castlecrag, Sydney

5. Glenmore Rd, Paddington, Sydney

6. Deepwater Rd, Castle Cove, Sydney

7. Hopetoun Ave, Vaucluse, Sydney

8. Seaforth Cres, Seaforth, Sydney

9. Nicholson Pde, Cronulla, Sydney

10. Prince Edward St, Malabar, Sydney

 

[Estelle]

The truth is that RB may not even actually know what ultimately happened to Marion. He may have just left her penniless someplace.

If Marion returned to Australia alive because she suspected something and he was not aware that she was here, how did she contact him or how did he contact her?

 

[baz-wj]

There are signs he tried to repeat / improve on the scheme that worked with Marion by the time he met Janet in 99. He forms the relationship, extracts what private access he can, gets his prey overseas and then uses another deception to cash in while they're out of the country and/or bring the scheme to an end so as to move onto the next.

If he scammed JO out of the title deeds to her house and other private docs for 'safe custody', I wonder if he tried to scam Marion into switching her funds to a joint account on the insistence it was cash only (to remove any trail leading to him).

 

[Estelle]

Address for 1980 is 287 Military Road Dover Heights

Name
Frederick David De Hedervary
Gender
Male
Electoral Date
1980
Electoral Place
Rose Bay, Wentworth, New South Wales, Australia
Add Additional Information

https://www.realestate.com.au/property/287-military-rd-dover-heights-nsw-2030

https://www.realestate.com.au/property/287a-military-rd-dover-heights-nsw-2030

https://www.domain.com.au/property-profile/287-military-road-dover-heights-nsw-2030

This house has been let since 2009.

287 Military Road Dover Heights NSW 2030 Sold Prices and Statistics

Worth up to $3,5m

 

[KiwiNZ]

If Marion returned to Australia alive because she suspected something and he was not aware that she was here, how did she contact him or how did he contact her?

True he doesn't like to give out his phone number !!

 

[Ponderer101]

How did RB come across Marion?

He read about her winning teacher of the year in the newspaper and thought she could be a target of his blackmailing activities as her reputation would be important to her.

Hadn't seen anyone mention this yet.

 

[Estelle]

How did RB come across Marion?

He read about her winning teacher of the year in the newspaper and thought she could be a target of his blackmailing activities as her reputation would be important to her.

Hadn't seen anyone mention this yet.

I agree with you. I would love to see the original article in the Gold Coast Bulletin (or was it also on TV?) to see what details the article published about Marion. He probably would have found out that she lived in Southport so looked up her address and drove past it before he even met her and found out her phone number. They could have said she used to be married to Johnny Warren so he knew she would like to meet someone who was interested in soccer so his Remakel name would work. They probably said where she worked and so on. He could have stalked her for a few days trying to work out how to meet her. He then put his strategy to work. Perhaps they met at the Arts Centre. Send an anonymous complaint about her touching her five year old male students to the school to make her feel embarrassed, lovebombed her and talked about starting a fresh life overseas, suggesting she resign, sell her house, change her name to his so hotels will think they are married, get a new passport, don't tell family about me and meet him in Europe to be married there. I can't fly with you as I have business in Japan on the way. Bring all your documents with you as you might need them but we'll leave them in a safe locker at Heathrow Airport so they will be safe. etc etc

 

[Estelle]

There are signs he tried to repeat / improve on the scheme that worked with Marion by the time he met Janet in 99. He forms the relationship, extracts what private access he can, gets his prey overseas and then uses another deception to cash in while they're out of the country and/or bring the scheme to an end so as to move onto the next.

If he scammed JO out of the title deeds to her house and other private docs for 'safe custody', I wonder if he tried to scam Marion into switching her funds to a joint account on the insistence it was cash only (to remove any trail leading to him).

But what names would they have used for the joint account? Remakel?

 

[MrsWattle]

Maybe he had Marion under his manipulative spell and she changed her name again and used one of his female victims ID. So Marion and Florabella no longer had a paper trail.

 

[baz-wj]

But what names would they have used for the joint account? Remakel?

I doubt there was a real one - just a ruse to get the money withdrawn.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

In NAA file, RB's application to Aus lists wife IK. She has her own public file with photos.

There is reference to them marrying 10 May 1969 in Belgium.
She arrived in Aus 22 March 1969, was from Hungary, a hairdresser with brown hair and petite.
He was going by WW name, arrived 24 March 1969, was from Belgium, a photographer and 6 foot 2.

Between 1970-74 he was in jail in Lille, France.
Remember JO said he was in Lille when he got mugged during their 1999 trip. Is this correct? I may have misremembered.

In 1974, after jail, he returned to Aus on WW passport.
Edit: 1974-1976 flurry of international activity.

Back in Aus, on 12 Feb 1976 he changed name to FDdH.
What's very interesting is that Hedervary is a Hungarian surname!
On 20 Feb 1976 he married DW.
On 25 March 1976 his citizenship was granted.
On 28 July 1976 he and DW flew out of Aus.

Same pattern of new relationship, name change, occasionally marry, new passport, travel overseas!

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Police checked and Marion, after being Florabella, never changed her name or applied for a passport again in Australia.

Also, the last 'paper trail' from Marion was her medicare card being used and RACQ membership being cancelled. Never a mention of new bank account. Certainly not around the time her money was withdrawn.

It's actually a very big question... what happened to Marin's cash once it was out of the bank? And given the line of questioning during inquest, a safe deposit box in the name of FDdH seems to be an option.

 

[Meligator]

So Marion withdraws 80k on October 15 (or 5 depending on source) & FdH opens safety envelope Oct 14. That Oct withdrawal was supposedly Marion’s regular use local Ashmore account (not from sale of house). I think that suggests that Marion and DH were still together at that time and he probably did get that money from her. Also wondering why we haven’t heard anything about a commonwealth account. Seems like if there was an additional account with money from sale of house, it was another colonial account. They made a point about her date of birth being wrong—suggesting perhaps she didn’t open those accounts.

Also interesting that they brought up purchase of security box in 2006. Who was conned then?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

"Who was conned then?"

It's so sad and tragic, but this made me laugh. Can't wait for more victims to speak up.

There was talk of it being in his wife DW name as well. So I guess we'll see what she says about it. It seems they were married for decades or even still together?