Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #6

[poppypopcorn]

And I do feel desperately sorry for Sally. She and I are the same age more or less and I very much empathise with her situation. It must be doubly hard for her to not only come to terms with her mother's disappearance, but also this revelation that there was a whole other life going on that she had no clue about. She must feel very deceived by her mum, and that's hard.

 

[Estelle]

His handwriting is quite distinct with ‘I’ as the dot above is a circle.. I’ve checked a lot of passengers cards and all have a circle above the ‘I’ example as attached but I have removed most info so only closing in on some words due to not being cool to display passport numbers on here

Now we need Marion's handwriting to compare.

However, he has been charged before for forgery. He could have collected Arrival cards when he left Australia for whoever came home on MB's passport and forged her handwriting. He could have obtained a fake passport too using Marion's details with a different photo. IMO this man of many names is capable of anything IMO.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I think this is the GENUINE Mr Ramekel. The one doorstepped by the podcast. Who has nothing to do with it in my opinion, apart from being a victim of identity fraud. A "telescopic suction tube for a vacuum cleaner" isn't really fitting hte pattern of property theft and coin dealing.

Agree

 

[caitlincurious]

For what’s it worth I do believe the postcards are genuine and were purchased in the UK and written by Marion. I wonder if RLW knew that Marion was sending postcards home or was happy with it to keep the ruse up?

Yes I think man of many names would have played an active role in encouraging the messages home as they suggested everything was fine and she was having a great time on her own. It's common for conmen to control communications such as these (letters, emails etc)

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Didn't JO say that when she went to the coin auctions with her then husband, that RW/RB never bid on any of the auctions.
Maybe his only purpose there was to look for victims for his alleged scams.

No mention of Rye in East Sussex which has a number of antique dealers (and possibly coin dealers). I assume LE will be asking her a lot more with regards to this.

 

[Estelle]

Didn't JO say that when she went to the coin auctions with her then husband, that RW/RB never bid on any of the auctions.
Maybe his only purpose there was to look for victims for his alleged scams.

Yes that is true in JO's case. Maybe he also frequented art galleries looking for vulnerable women who are interested in art. It's easy there to start up a conversation about the paintings and then move on to other topics.

I often wonder how he dressed. Did he dress well? Women like men who are well-dressed.

 

[caitlincurious]

Now we need Marion's handwriting to compare.

However, he has been charged before for forgery. He could have collected Arrival cards when he left Australia for whoever came home on MB's passport and forged her handwriting. He could have obtained a fake passport too using Marion's details with a different photo. IMO this man of many names is capable of anything IMO.

I have tried comparing Marion's handwriting on the immigration cards already; it's distinctively different to RB

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Did he have a French accent. Some women find that attractive.

I guess we'll hear at the inquest. That's if it is live streamed.

There's nothing on the NSW Coroners site showing upcoming live streams for the Marion Barter Inquest on 14th Feb.

Live Streams

I often wonder how he dressed. Did he dress well? Women like men who are well-dressed.

 

[Estelle]

Did he have a French accent. Some women find that attractive.

I guess we'll hear at the inquest. That's if it is live streamed.

There's nothing on the NSW Coroners site showing upcoming live streams for the Marion Barter Inquest on 14th Feb.

Live Streams

Yes. Personally I find a French accent very attractive. I also speak French but it is a little rusty these days. I used to want to live in France so I'm glad I never met him! LOL

How appropriate that we will see him (hopefully) on Valentine's Day!

 

[Estelle]

I’m not very big into handwriting analysis but this stuck out to me as being very “14 year old” behaviour so I googled what it might signify… “Dots which are placed as circles point out the immature behavior of the writer, and a deep desire to be noticed. Dots which are drawn as circles are commonly found in teenage handwritings, revealing the desire to attract attention.”
Yep sounds about right in this case.

How interesting!

 

[chinguetti]

I think this is the GENUINE Mr Ramekel. The one doorstepped by the podcast. Who has nothing to do with it in my opinion, apart from being a victim of identity fraud. A "telescopic suction tube for a vacuum cleaner" isn't really fitting hte pattern of property theft and coin dealing.

I lean towards the idea that this was filed by the fake Ramekel. It's fitting the pattern of "invest in my business". I can imagine RB and Marion going to Luxemburg to file the patent together giving credibility to his business venture. The patent filing date is a perfect match with their European travel records:

17-06-1997 Mr B, according to international movement records – travelled to Japan with his outgoing passenger card saying he intended to spend 30 days in Belgium. (this is probably where MB got the Japanese stationery from)
23-06-1997- MB left Australia from Brisbane airport with two suitcases
25-07-1997 Fernand Remakel files patent for vacuum tube
31-07-1997 RB returned to Australia using name of “Richard Lloyd Westbury” on his passport following change by Deedpoll.

There are 3 other patents files by Ramekel. They seem amateurish and eclectic and seem to be registered by shell companies. One of the shell companies is using the address of a primary school. Each of these patents might be linked to other victims if they were filed by the fake Ramekel. Which is more likely (1) the real Ramekel files his first patent in the month that MB and RB are in town or (2) RB, with a known history of proposing business ventures to extract money from his marks, files the patent under the alias he was probably using with MB in the location he was probably travelling to with MB.

 

[KittensAugustus]

A couple of articles which may explain the end game a bit more.

GAZUMPED: How Criminals Are Stealing And Selling Homes Out From Under Their Owners In Australia

Man charged over selling homes he did not own

 

[Estelle]

A couple of articles which may explain the end game a bit more.

GAZUMPED: How Criminals Are Stealing And Selling Homes Out From Under Their Owners In Australia

Man charged over selling homes he did not own

Thanks. I have never heard of this type of fraud Before.

 

[Estelle]

I lean towards the idea that this was filed by the fake Ramekel. It's fitting the pattern of "invest in my business". I can imagine RB and Marion going to Luxemburg to file the patent together giving credibility to his business venture. The patent filing date is a perfect match with their European travel records:

17-06-1997 Mr B, according to international movement records – travelled to Japan with his outgoing passenger card saying he intended to spend 30 days in Belgium. (this is probably where MB got the Japanese stationery from)
23-06-1997- MB left Australia from Brisbane airport with two suitcases
25-07-1997 Fernand Remakel files patent for vacuum tube
31-07-1997 RB returned to Australia using name of “Richard Lloyd Westbury” on his passport following change by Deedpoll.

There are 3 other patents files by Ramekel. They seem amateurish and eclectic and seem to be registered by shell companies. One of the shell companies is using the address of a primary school. Each of these patents might be linked to other victims if they were filed by the fake Ramekel. Which is more likely (1) the real Ramekel files his first patent in the month that MB and RB are in town or (2) RB, with a known history of proposing business ventures to extract money from his marks, files the patent under the alias he was probably using with MB in the location he was probably travelling to with MB.

You could be right. However, few women I know would be interested in investing in such investments.

 

[Belleandsebastian]

You could be right. However, few women I know would be interested in investing in such investments.

He could have spun a big tale about how they would both make millions off it. I'm thinking of the lies he spun to JO about having the 20,000 acres of land and being worth 12 mil.

 

[Belleandsebastian]

To add to my previous post, Marion could have been thinking that when she did finally come back to her family, she'd have a European business-man husband with her and they would both be wealthy beyond anything she had experienced before. She'd no longer be seen as 'marrying Marion'.
He was/is an expert liar. A sociopath. Maybe even a psychopath.

 

[Meligator]

This whole time we have been thinking Marion changed her name to avoid being found by family etc. BUT, I’m wondering if he had her change her name because he wanted passport or other documents with an F Remakel name. Would be interesting to know what day we changed his name to RW? Did they go together? Marion would be “married” and “Marion Ramakel.” She may have never really imagined it would prevent anyone from finding her. I don’t think she was trying to run away forever. I think she was doing what she said. Go to UK for a year. See if it works out. And then tell family she is married. She probably knew this was impulsive and didn’t want to deal with the embarrassment of another failed marriage. So kept it quiet until she was sure it was solid.

 

[Estelle]

He could have spun a big tale about how they would both make millions off it. I'm thinking of the lies he spun to JO about having the 20,000 acres of land and being worth 12 mil.

I think if he promised to buy her a preschool in England, as a joint partnership, Marion might have fallen for that. IMO Marion was not done with teaching as that is all she knew. I don't see her motivated simply by greed.

 

[Belleandsebastian]

I think if he promised to buy her a preschool in England, as a joint partnership, Marion might have fallen for that. IMO Marion was not done with teaching as that is all she knew. I don't see her motivated simply by greed.

Yes, this is a good theory. I don’t think she would be motivated by greed either. Rather, the chance to do “something more” with her life and having more freedom. I think she wanted to come back and surprise all her friends and family with her new life.

 

[Untangle]

Has anyone checked the address RB was listed with in Luxembourg in 1981?
According to the NAA file it was "22 Rue des Muguets" which seems to be located in Luxembourg City, postal code 2167.

Maybe he still had access to that property in 1997 and maybe there were company names connected to the address.