Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #6

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Lord Peter Flimsy said:
I haven’t fully listened to JO’s evidence but she was only asked if she went to Tunbridge Wells. The only places she mentioned were Harwich (ferry port), Colchester in Essex, Dover (ferry port) and her cousin in Manchester.

She was clearly travelling with this guy through Kent & Sussex so exactly where was she visiting, where did she stay, what type of accommodation, was it pre-booked, etc, etc.

No mention of Rye in East Sussex which has a number of antique dealers (and possibly coin dealers). I assume LE will be asking her a lot more with regards to this.
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They did ask her some questions about this? I remember C spelling out the word Rye, and they also asked her about Hastings/locations connected to Jane Austen/another location that she laughed at the name of but I can't think of off the top of my head. And they asked her if they had stayed in oast houses/what the accommodation was like.
 
vivienbee said:
They did ask her some questions about this? I remember C spelling out the word Rye, and they also asked her about Hastings/locations connected to Jane Austen/another location that she laughed at the name of but I can't think of off the top of my head. And they asked her if they had stayed in oast houses/what the accommodation was like.
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I finally managed to catch up with final day of the inquest on YouTube. You are correct they did mention Rye & Winchelsea near the end of the questioning plus the Oast Houses. The witness JO wasn’t really helpful as she seems to have either forgotten much of what happened in Dec 1999 or where she was. I’m surprised as she went to the Police in Australia only a few weeks later and must have been asked by family (e.g sons, her cousin) at the time what this guy was up to in the UK & mainland Europe?
 
poppypopcorn said:
Totally agree. I know a guy who is a long haul pilot for a major airline and the first thing he does when he lands is changes into his "civvies". He's not driving round picking up boxes in his uniform.
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Agreed, it's absolutely ridiculous to think he would be wearing his uniform out like that.
 
May be they should be inquiring at the Gold Coast art center if any one knew RB, he may have had involvement been a "photographer" and possible where he met Marion.

and if I remember correctly Trendwest was over the road from the arts center
 
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KiwiNZ said:
May be they should be inquiring at the Gold Coast art center if any one knew RB, he may have had involvement been a "photographer" and possible where he met Marion.

and if I remember correctly Trendwest was over the road from the arts center
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In the NAA archives he lists occupation as pres photographer, perhaps he was a press photographer?
 
With regards to RB's handwriting... the circle above his i's... it may be a 'girlish teen' thing to do in Australia but he is foreign. Perhaps it's a clue as to where he is originally from or has been?

I know WW is supposed to be a French speaking Belgian. But who knows who he really is, and it's not the type of accent used in France. A rounded accent is more commonly used in Denmark, Norway and Sweden. It's also used in Moroccan Arabic. And he did use the alias of Roger Lauzoney from Morocco.

At the inquest there was reference to him possibly being an Algerian man. And they speak a mix of Arabic and French there, so... ?
 
I am not sure why i found this article interesting when searching on the name and came across this women with the surname and around the same age ? era ..but noted some references to places in common with F de H and in reference to the unsettled conditions in places in Europe and reasons why people from this area would change names , disappear etc . I was curious why he picked this name to marry and have children that we know of at least . Is the reason he keeps up visits and appearances overseas because he does have family connections he may still maintain, also in article a reference to publishing and news papers and political affiliations .

Claire de Hedervary's Biography

curious about what others may glean as well ?

Edited by me ..to add this , Does anyone know who this man is ?

https://lilac.ied-forum.com/file-ht...3/images/bin/49880f3e2f82d79b0470ae5504ef0fa4
 
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I recall Mr Casselden at the inquest asking Sally about a lane beside her mother's house in Merinda Court. Sally appeared mystified and said there was no lane beside the house, saying the only lane she knew was at the end of the street. Because I live nearby I decided to check whether a lane could have or does exist at No 15. There definitely is no laneway. However there is an ungated side pebbled passage leading to the back of the property.
 
car54 said:
I recall Mr Casselden at the inquest asking Sally about a lane beside her mother's house in Merinda Court. Sally appeared mystified and said there was no lane beside the house, saying the only lane she knew was at the end of the street. Because I live nearby I decided to check whether a lane could have or does exist at No 15. There definitely is no laneway. However there is an ungated side pebbled passage leading to the back of the property.
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Are these references to laneway relative to a witness stating she saw a man that used to visit Marion at the time before she left the house ?
 
KiwiNZ said:
would love to know what happened to his first wife, if in fact they did get married ( can not find a record of it). She seems to have disappeared completely from any records
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I think this may be her from Ancestry
Not 100% however the name is unusual especially with the z in Kinczel
I imagine Elisabeth would be anglicised from Erzsebet.
Bit more research to do!

Ilona KinczelFree Access: Africa, Asia and Europe, Passenger Lists of Displaced Persons, 1946-1971
Name
Ilona Kinczel
Departure Age
10
Birth Date
11 May 1946
Birth Place
Budapest
Occupation
student
Passport Date
24 Jan 1957
Passport Place
Österreich
Departure Date
24 Jan 1957
Departure Place
Vienna
Resettlement Camp
Vienna, Austria
Transport Ship
BE/28
Arrival Place
Belgium
Add Additional Information

From that information she was travelling with a Josef Kinczel born 1925 and a Erzsebet Kinczel born 1926.

Erzsebet Kinczel has a NAA archive (not open) record in Australia in 1998/1999

From Ancestry I found Australian death records associated with a Josef Kinczel, wife Elizabeth and a Ilona Reid

Name: Josef Kinczel
Gender: Male
Spouse: Elizabeth Novotny
Child: Ilona Jacoueline Reid

Victorian birth death and marriage records index has this Ilona death in 1978

Record information
Event:
deaths
Registration number
8284 / 1978
Family name:
REID
Given name(s)
Ilona Jacqueline Elizabeth
Place of event:
St Kilda, Australia
Personal detail
Mother's name
<Unknown Family Name>, Elizabeth
Mother's family name at birth
NOVOTNY
Father's Name:
<Unknown Family Name>, KINCZEL Josef
 
I’ve listened - Alison said police found RB as a tip-off resulting from the podcast. Does she mean the add in Le Courier? I feel as though the podcast are just going to pretend that their harassment of the real FR didn’t happen. I remember all that time ago Brian declaring that the real FR was “the only one in the world”. Sure. I do not think any acknowledgment that they were barking up the wrong tree is going to be forthcoming.
 
KiwiNZ said:
would love to know what happened to his first wife, if in fact they did get married ( can not find a record of it). She seems to have disappeared completely from any records
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I found IW on an ABN website and she seems to have been living in Victoria. A previous post told us she has deceased.
 
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MrsWattle said:
Did RB or D d H. ever pay any tax in Australia or were they dodging that too!? I'd be interested to see any legitimate business or property purchases through genuine incomes.
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I suspect it was all cash only.
 
Peralta said:
With regards to RB's handwriting... the circle above his i's... it may be a 'girlish teen' thing to do in Australia but he is foreign. Perhaps it's a clue as to where he is originally from or has been?

I know WW is supposed to be a French speaking Belgian. But who knows who he really is, and it's not the type of accent used in France. A rounded accent is more commonly used in Denmark, Norway and Sweden. It's also used in Moroccan Arabic. And he did use the alias of Roger Lauzoney from Morocco.

At the inquest there was reference to him possibly being an Algerian man. And they speak a mix of Arabic and French there, so... ?
Click to expand...

He could have been born anywhere. As his first wife is Hungarian. I wondered if he grew up there.
 
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