Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #6

[Estelle]

With regards to RB's handwriting... the circle above his i's... it may be a 'girlish teen' thing to do in Australia but he is foreign. Perhaps it's a clue as to where he is originally from or has been?

I know WW is supposed to be a French speaking Belgian. But who knows who he really is, and it's not the type of accent used in France. A rounded accent is more commonly used in Denmark, Norway and Sweden. It's also used in Moroccan Arabic. And he did use the alias of Roger Lauzoney from Morocco.

At the inquest there was reference to him possibly being an Algerian man. And they speak a mix of Arabic and French there, so... ?

The places that were mentioned to JO that she and RB could visit were France, Morocco and Algeria. He looks actually looks like a Moroccan/Algerian.

 

[KeenSleuth17]

I’m not sure if this is allowed to be discussed here, so please correct me if not!
I’ve been intrigued since Friday about a comment made by Mr Casselden after the inquest just before it was adjourned.
Kim Burke said something to Her Honour to the effect of “Can I just ask, out of my own interests sake…” and she was quickly interrupted by Mr Casselden who said something similar to “I don’t know what you’re about to say but if it is in regard to applications, please refrain” or something. Turned out she was just interested in finding out if the court would return to in person or if they continued to need to appear by AVL.
It seemed a bit awkward and there was something that Mr Casselden didn’t want discussed. I keep thinking it is to do with applications around RB giving evidence. Does anyone have any idea what it might be about?
On another (but possibly linked) note, I hope they are going to continue to live stream while he & DdH give their evidence.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

He could have been born anywhere. As his first wife is Hungarian. I wondered if he grew up there.

According to Ancestry record, she went from Hungary to Austria to Belgium. As per NAA, they married in Belgium 10 March 1969 before arriving in Aus on 22 March 1969 (he arrived two days later). But who knows if any of it is real or an alias.

 

[Estelle]

I’m not sure if this is allowed to be discussed here, so please correct me if not!
I’ve been intrigued since Friday about a comment made by Mr Casselden after the inquest just before it was adjourned.
Kim Burke said something to Her Honour to the effect of “Can I just ask, out of my own interests sake…” and she was quickly interrupted by Mr Casselden who said something similar to “I don’t know what you’re about to say but if it is in regard to applications, please refrain” or something. Turned out she was just interested in finding out if the court would return to in person or if they continued to need to appear by AVL.
It seemed a bit awkward and there was something that Mr Casselden didn’t want discussed. I keep thinking it is to do with applications around RB giving evidence. Does anyone have any idea what it might be about?
On another (but possibly linked) note, I hope they are going to continue to live stream while he & DdH give their evidence.

I was worried that they would appear in closed court.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Are these references to laneway relative to a witness stating she saw a man that used to visit Marion at the time before she left the house ?

I took it that they had asked RB to describe Marion's home since he claims to have been there and were checking if it was correct and if he could have only know those things he claimed by actually been there or had he heard it on the podcast.

I think its clear he has been listening to the podcast and following the case and now making stuff up in line with the podcast information.

 

[Estelle]

According to Ancestry record, she went from Hungary to Austria to Belgium. As per NAA, they married in Belgium 10 March 1969 before arriving in Aus on 22 March 1969 (he arrived two days later). But who knows if any of it is real or an alias.

Yes I just learnt that today. So they must have met in Belgium. She seems to have gone to a Resettlement Camp so could have been Jewish.

 

[KiwiNZ]

According to Ancestry record, she went from Hungary to Austria to Belgium. As per NAA, they married in Belgium 10 March 1969 before arriving in Aus on 22 March 1969 (he arrived two days later). But who knows if any of it is real or an alias.

Agree is any of it true - it is noted in the NAA that he had ticked unmarried on his entry card and married on his Australian residence application - also ticked divorced less than 6 months later on a departure card.

IK was very pretty - I hope she had a good life, free of him.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I’m not sure if this is allowed to be discussed here, so please correct me if not!
I’ve been intrigued since Friday about a comment made by Mr Casselden after the inquest just before it was adjourned.
Kim Burke said something to Her Honour to the effect of “Can I just ask, out of my own interests sake…” and she was quickly interrupted by Mr Casselden who said something similar to “I don’t know what you’re about to say but if it is in regard to applications, please refrain” or something. Turned out she was just interested in finding out if the court would return to in person or if they continued to need to appear by AVL.
It seemed a bit awkward and there was something that Mr Casselden didn’t want discussed. I keep thinking it is to do with applications around RB giving evidence. Does anyone have any idea what it might be about?
On another (but possibly linked) note, I hope they are going to continue to live stream while he & DdH give their evidence.

Yes, I'm totally intrigued! No idea what it is. I feel Casselden is running a VERY tight ship. He seems extremely methodical and strategic about every aspect of the case and the timing of how it unfolds.

No doubt they have a lot more on him but can't reveal due to ongoing investigation and to ensure charges can be laid appropriately, when the time comes. Because this is soooo much bigger than Marion now.

I also feel this one week break, plus the reward and the pressure of information coming out publicly is an excellent opportunity for anyone to speak up. Because it really seems there were people around him who knew more, either by helping him or turning a blind eye.

 

[KeenSleuth17]

I was worried that they would appear in closed court.

Yeah could be. I would be extremely disappointed but not surprise.
I also wondered if there were applications for warrants … I have no doubt there’s a high level of surveillance happening to capture what he’s saying/doing in the lead up to giving evidence.

 

[Estelle]

Agree is any of it true - it is noted in the NAA that he had ticked unmarried on his entry card and married on his Australian residence application - also ticked divorced less than 6 months later on a departure card.

IK was very pretty - I hope she had a good life, free of him.

It sounds as if it could have been a marriage of convenience. I wonder if he asked her parents to pay for him to get her Australian residence? Did they arrive in Sydney? Then she later left to live in Victoria. Was his second wife born in Australia?

 

[Estelle]

Yes, I'm totally intrigued! No idea what it is. I feel Casselden is running a VERY tight ship. He seems extremely methodical and strategic about every aspect of the case and the timing of how it unfolds.

No doubt they have a lot more on him but can't reveal due to ongoing investigation and to ensure charges can be laid appropriately, when the time comes. Because this is soooo much bigger than Marion now.

I also feel this one week break, plus the reward and the pressure of information coming out publicly is an excellent opportunity for anyone to speak up. Because it really seems there were people around him who knew more, either by helping him or turning a blind eye.

Yes the public exposure could help this case.

 

[KiwiNZ]

It sounds as if it could have been a marriage of convenience. I wonder if he asked her parents to pay for him to get her Australian residence? Did they arrive in Sydney? Then she later left to live in Victoria. Was his second wife born in Australia?

I though he arrived in perth - will double check

They only married days before arriving in Aus ( as stated on their application form) but I I can find no record of their marriage

2nd wife born in Sydney 1951 - younger than him

 

[bettyboop]

Hello! I have been reading with interest and liking different posts.
I just don't have anything to really ad. I am quite impressed with the sleuthing all of you have done. I have not seen the inquest but I need to thank @Peralta for the link to the NAA! Have started on that info. JMO MOO

 

[Estelle]

I though he arrived in perth - will double check

They only married days before arriving in Aus ( as stated on their application form) but I I can find no record of their marriage

2nd wife born in Sydney 1951 - younger than him

Although supposedly married before arriving, they travelled independently to Australia. I thought that strange. I wonder if their Marriage Certificate was forged overseas if there is no record of it?

So 2nd wife is twelve years younger. I wonder if she ever worked. If they had children 16 and 18 years at the time of his trip with Marion, they would have been still at school, so I doubt whether she impersonated Marion or whether someone minded the children. If they are still together, I think she will claim that she believed that all his trips were business-related. It appears that they still own their first house in Military Road, Dover Heights (some refer to their living at Vaucluse once but that is the next suburb) and it appears on real estate records that it has been rented since 2009 as there is no sales history. I wonder if he is really worth $12m as he claimed to JO?

ALL IMO

 

[Estelle]

I think RB's life story will make an excellent book and later a movie as will Marion's.

 

[MrsWattle]

Sorry if this has been posted previously. Death index of RB first wife.
Name: Ilona Jacoueline Reid
Death Age: 31
Birth Date: abt 1947
Death Date: Abt 1978
Death Place: St Kilda, Victoria
Registration Date: 1978
Registration Place: Australia
Father: Josef Kinczel
Mother: Elizabeth Novotny

 

[KeenSleuth17]

Yes, I'm totally intrigued! No idea what it is. I feel Casselden is running a VERY tight ship. He seems extremely methodical and strategic about every aspect of the case and the timing of how it unfolds.

No doubt they have a lot more on him but can't reveal due to ongoing investigation and to ensure charges can be laid appropriately, when the time comes. Because this is soooo much bigger than Marion now.

I also feel this one week break, plus the reward and the pressure of information coming out publicly is an excellent opportunity for anyone to speak up. Because it really seems there were people around him who knew more, either by helping him or turning a blind eye.

Extremely methodical and strategic. He’s the perfect guy for the job. I am enjoying listening to him and how he works thoroughly!

Edited to correct spelling error

 

[centred]

Yes I just learnt that today. So they must have met in Belgium. She seems to have gone to a Resettlement Camp so could have been Jewish.

Thats why i posted my link latest links as being born in those times in the height of a world war followed by many revolutions and displacement it stands to reason many people would have alias or name changes in regards to their circumstances , born from military foreign aliens , mixed nationals and of course jewish and other alliances . So yes he could be anybody . My link to the rare deHarvadary name and her history in Japan , Belgium and of course Hungary and him claiming some things that are close to truth amongst embellishment is necessary as a con artist. So far the records do not go beyond the early 60 s. So i think whoever he was and whatever he was doing around age 20 and before we may never know as that person may no longer exist on record . IMO

 

[centred]

I think RB's life story will make an excellent book and later a movie as will Marion's.

Too right Estelle !! agree although it might have to be a mini series to fit everything in ..

 

[StarrChance]

I found IW on an ABN website and she seems to have been living in Victoria. A previous post told us she has deceased.

I find it odd/strange that her daughter would use her deceased mothers first married name for 6 weeks ABN then change to hers, but hey this case is a little crazy.