Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #6

[roland625]

Curious why Blum thought that saying they'd originally met in 1960s was a good idea (I think most agree it's garbage)?

 

[Belleandsebastian]

Maybe after this inquest it's a good time to re- investigate Missing women since 1993 Ballina, Lismore, Lennox, Brooklet

The thing is, if Marion didn’t have Sally, no-one would have looked into this.
There could be other women out there who didn’t have anyone to lead the search.

 

[roland625]

The thing is, if Marion didn’t have Sally, no-one would have looked into this.
There could be other women out there who didn’t have anyone to lead the search.

Between this and other historical cases in the news so much seems to depend in NSW on if you get a lazy and/or incompetent cop on the initial investigation.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

I'm not caught up yet but I was thinking about the bank ID. Marion had been banking with a few branches or banks I understand. How long had she been with the one that ID'd her? Is it possible the teller was able to ID 'Marion' on the basis that someone had been impersonating her before her disappearance?

Suitcases being left at airports so someone can copy documents they contain?

I'm not buying that the flight card was written by Marion now that a forger is in question.

But think about it. What is the purpose of putting such effort in forging someone’s handwriting for the passenger card? There is no reason whatsoever, it would be a waste of time! The border security don’t look at someone’s handwriting to see if it is theirs. Maybe a signature, but not entire handwriting.
Have you seen the handwriting, it is very similar. Sally even says it is her mums hand writing.
One of her bills was paid too for memory when she got back. Why would she pay a bill when she got back if it wasn’t her? Doesn’t make sense. Also the bank identified her.

 

[StarrChance]

Curious why Blum thought that saying they'd originally met in 1960s was a good idea (I think most agree it's garbage)?

I think it’s actually good he “remembers” many details including the “pilot” one, I feel it will make it a lot harder for him to backtrack in the future and play the dementia card.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I also think he probably has had double the amount of names we are aware of. Wouldn't be surprised if he caught numerous women through personal ads under other names we don't even know yet - Le Courier Australien would be the place to check, any ads that sound similar to his original one

I checked Le Courrier Australien on Trove. I narrowed the search to that paper, 'advertisement' category, keyword RECONTRES, as that's how the Remakel ad is indexed.

There aren't that many lonely hearts ads. Only one or two every so often. I found no other that sounds like the Remakel ad or his aliases. And definitely no others with the contact in Lennox Heads or the number he listed.

However, there are a few that have potential, along the lines of 'seeking a cultured lady who is financially independent' or from a 'man from good upbringing', but there's nothing in them to suggest one way or the other. It could even be some other scammer. Many don't reveal a name and give the paper as the contact, so there is no way of knowing who placed them. Especially after all this time.

What is unusual then, is that the FNMR ad seems like an anomaly. Maybe he placed just the one ad? Maybe he placed multiple but messed up this one time by being too unique and revealing? But it doesn't make sense that he was anonymous, then revealing, then anonymous.

Unless of course, the Remakel ad wasn't a real lonely heart ad but a way to communicate with someone? Send a message to someone who also read the paper but had no fixed address? A secret way to alert each other to where they were and how to contact each other? Pure fantasy, I know I honestly have no idea. I just didn't find anything obvious in Le Courrier.

Feel free to check for yourselves. I may have missed something.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I think it’s actually good he “remembers” many details including the “pilot” one, I feel it will make it a lot harder for him to backtrack in the future and play the dementia card.

Is it said that most liars tend to go into extreme detail while telling a lie? It’s the mention of man in uniform gold stripes hat that gets me… I mean is any person who works wearing a uniform like that going to move boxes dressed in it lol… a lot sound ridiculous. Meeting in 60’s randomly applying to an ad and it happens to be Marions?? Then runs an ad himself with a different name and Marion randomly replies? IMO it’s to establish they knew each other’s for years and years.. rather than perhaps not so long at all. Would love someone to confirm if Marion was in Switzerland we know Europe for warren’s training but was it Switzerland?

 

[Belleandsebastian]

I checked Le Courrier Australien on Trove. I narrowed the search to just that paper, in the 'advertisement' category with the keyword RECONTRES (that's how the Remakel ad is indexed).

There are not that many lonely hearts ads. Only one or two every so often. I found no other that sounds like the Remakel ad or his aliases. And definitely no others with the contact in Lennox Heads or the number he listed.

However, there are a few that pop up that have potential due description along the lines of 'seeking a cultured lady who is financially independent', but there's nothing in them to suggest one way or the other. Or it could be some other scammer. Some don't even reveal a name and give the paper as the contact, so there is no way of knowing who placed them. Especially after all this time.

What is unusual then is that the FNMR ad seems like an anomaly. Maybe he placed just the one ad and messed up by being too revealing? If he also placed other ads, those are much more anonymous. And some of those are dated before the Remakel ad. So it doesn't make send he was anonymous, then revealing, then anonymous.

Unless of course, the Remakel ad wasn't a real lonely heart ad but a way to communicate with someone? Like send a message to someone else who also read the paper but had no fixed and he was able to alert them to where was and how to contact him. Pure fantasy / spy stuff, I know I honestly have no idea. I just didn't find anything obvious in Le Courrier.

Feel free to check for yourselves. I may have missed something.

Great work. You’re right, those ads you mentioned could well have been him but there’s no way of knowing.

FDH’s MO was to make it look like the woman could have disappeared of her own accord, so many cases could have not been looked into. It takes real grit to do what Sally has done and not everyone has a family member capable of that.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I think it’s actually good he “remembers” many details including the “pilot” one, I feel it will make it a lot harder for him to backtrack in the future and play the dementia card.

Is it said that most liars tend to go into extreme detail while telling a lie? It’s the mention of man in uniform gold stripes hat that gets me… I mean is any person who works wearing a uniform like that going to move boxes dressed in it lol… a lot sound ridiculous. Meeting in 60’s randomly applying to an ad and it happens to be Marions?? Then runs an ad himself with a different name and Marion randomly replies? IMO it’s to establish they knew each other’s for years and years.. rather than perhaps not so long at all. Would love someone to confirm if Marion was in Switzerland we know Europe for warren’s training but was it Switzerland?

 

[Isabelle-Australia]

Maybe I am wrong, but the real FR's response to the podcast team was hardly unsuspicious in my opinion. He understood enough English to know what was going on, and yet he was not at all forthcoming with information? I found his behaviour really suspicious. Perhaps he was just confused/freaked out, and maybe in fact he had a suspicion already that someone had stolen his identity, which is why he responded in such a manner?

Not that I would be so happy if people came knocking on my door implying I was involved in the disappearance of someone 20 years ago haha

Given that RB has connections to Luxembourg, he may have known Fernand Remekel, it's such an unusual name and rare, it's hard to think it could be a co-incidence that he thought up this name to use as an alias, maybe it was.

 

[Isabelle-Australia]

just thinking, did Sally or other family members know of the artworks Marion had in her house, I heard they were quite well known artists, was there ever a search done? I hear there are "art detectives" out there that track missing and stolen artworks.

 

[thunderwombat]

Maybe I am wrong, but the real FR's response to the podcast team was hardly unsuspicious in my opinion. He understood enough English to know what was going on, and yet he was not at all forthcoming with information? I found his behaviour really suspicious. Perhaps he was just confused/freaked out, and maybe in fact he had a suspicion already that someone had stolen his identity, which is why he responded in such a manner?

Not that I would be so happy if people came knocking on my door implying I was involved in the disappearance of someone 20 years ago haha

But what information was he supposed to be forthcoming with? He told the interviewers that he didn't know Marion and that he'd never been to Australia. He was far more civil than I would have been.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yes I think she said she had a caveat placed on the house, meaning the old title I suppose and then received a new title. Yes I think she said it had a new number.

Seems once she did get suspicious she did set about protecting her assets.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Thus far, Marion going to Switzerland has NEVER been mentioned. Sally was able to get a lot of passenger cards through FOI from Marion's previous travel in and out of Aus and Switzerland wasn't on there. If she did go to Switzerland, she might not have gone directly from Aus. Could still be true. Google search reveals soccer camps are often held in Switzerland.

I'm just as interested to know the reason he gives inquest as to why HE was at a soccer camp's hotel lobby. Is he also a soccer player (those shin surgery scars)? He also has a boxer's nose. Can you imagine if he reveals himself to be THE REAL Fernand Remakel and the other is a fake

As for MB's artwork, this has been discussed many times during the past 6 threads and 3 years. Just a few pages back, someone posted a refresher image of some of the major works. Lord Flimsy posted it, I think. There's also a search bar on the top right where you can filter to just this thread.

 

[Meligator]

From Ancestry

1977

Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980
Name
Frederick de Hedervery
Electoral Date
1977
Electoral Place
Bondi Beach, Phillip, New South Wales, Australia
Residence Address
0 1303 Old South Head Rd
Add Additional Information

He listed occupation as artist

1980

Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980
Name
Frederick David De Hedervary
Gender
Male
Electoral Date
1980
Electoral Place
Rose Bay, Wentworth, New South Wales, Australia

Occupation listed as photographer

Bondi. Didn’t they bring up him knowing that Marion’s sister was dating a Greek man living in Bondi?

 

[Lokii]

Has there ever been any mention of him being in Darling Point?

 

[Estelle]

Has there ever been any mention of him being in Darling Point?

Why are you bringing that up?

 

[vivienbee]

I found a record on Ancestry.com...

I would edit this because we've already had a warning on here about posting the names of the family (even if she is listed on court docs).

I know that from watching the inquest.

I was wondering if a similar thing happened to Marion's luggage.

We do know that some of her luggage was left at the airport and was later unaccounted for, so possibly someone else removed the luggage on her behalf. Or she did collect it and took it back with her on her return flight to Aus. We don't know.

 

[poppypopcorn]

I didn't find him suspicious at all.
I found him actually quite civil. I doubt that I would have kept my cool if it was me.

He didn't owe it to anyone to provide information.

I agree. I think at the time a lot of us agreed that doorstepping an elderly man in his own home and practically accusing him of murder was a but much.

He maybe did know Ric Blum, or whatever he was calling himself at the time. When the fraudster placed the ads he was in his 50s. If you've moved around a lot like he did you are going to have met a LOT of people over those 50 years. Just because a fraudster has picked the name of someone he once worked with, or his brother's mate, or a man in the next village does not implicate that person!

The Luxembourg Ramekel is a victim of identity theft. Nothing more than that.

 

[vivienbee]

YES!! the fact that she possible pretended to be in the UK but in fact was almost home, tells me she was probably still with him and under his control, he was telling her what to say to Sally, and the fact she did't contact family when she got back, he's sent her to a location of his, did she get back to Aus first or was it him? I know ther was a few days difference.

He got back to Aus first. This could be the case, but it's also possible that if she was suspicious in some way and returned for that reason she didn't want to worry Sally/was embarrassed about the situation.

After listening to the 1st lady witness I have a horrible feeling the perpetrator was a photographer who took incriminating images of Marion and blackmailed her into selling the house etc. He probably added child abuse to his threats to get her to resign from the school earlier than planned.

This is plausible, but I don't think it would even have taken that much. From what we've heard from the other women, this man was an expert manipulator who basically love bombed them into believing that they were head over heels and vice versa. Everything we've heard about Marion suggests to me that she would have been similarly vulnerable and I think she could easily have been taken in by his charms and promises of a new life together, especially considering the situation she had going on with the school (which I do now believe that he may have had a hand in).