Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[MrsWattle]

I also wondered about his motivation when he was asked about IK and I am sure he said "I heard she died in a car crash". Sleuths here have found a death certificate related to heart issues, so it just struck me as odd he should offer that information relating to IK and that it may have some other motivation or relevance?

I also wondered about his motivation when he was asked about IK and I am sure he said "I heard she died in a car crash". Sleuths here have found a death certificate related to heart issues, so it just struck me as odd he should offer that information relating to IK and that it may have some other motivation or relevance?

Surely their daughter E has been asked by detectives?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Marion had previously changed her name, prior to a marriage. It was to Barter I think. Who was it that she said that changing your name was easy, you just do it by deed poll. So it's not something she didn't know about and it was something she had done prior to marriage before. I can't explain why this time it wouldn't have been just Marion Remakel. Those names could have been suggested to her. If not and it was all her, then it left a trail of breadcrumbs which came back much later to haunt RB.

I still absolutely adore the breadcrumb theory.

Just realised that because they were on different flights, he would never have seen HER passport and known what she did. Perhaps when he finally realised what she was doing, that's when he lost the plot made her disappear?

 

[gymtonic]

good find! Which company was this?

Sorry, I can't be sure. It was on one of the closed threads (and I read it before I became a member). I was hoping it might ring a bell with whoever here who was doing these searches on companies. Alternatively if someone can remember which thread contained these searches I can go back and look?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Oh wait, I got my first computer in early 1992, but then there were no isps around until 1994. Apart from the Uni.

So a false memory from me of getting my computer in 1994, it was 1992. I did get online in 1992 but it was the World Wide Web then and you used things like Lynx, Newsgroups and Bulletin Boards.

It was really something I couldn't talk about with friends, they'd just stare at me blankly LOL.

I had a PC at home in 1991, but I was definitely an early adopter and was the only person I knew with a home PC. I was also one of only 4 people in a large government department with a PC and an email address in the early 90s (as part of a trial program). On a related note, Internet cafes started in Oz around the mid 90s. Maybe there were Internet cafes in that area due to it being popular with backpackers?

 

[centred]

But his legal name at that point was RLW so passport and ticket in that name so that couldn't have worked unless he told MB she had changed her name to a fake ID of his.

who looks at our traveling companions passports ? especially ones we don't actually fly with

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Which is why my theory is he has another passport - he doesnt fly over with Marion nor does he come back with her so is this why??....he cant risk his passenger finding out he is traveling under another name...many times throughout the long haul you are addressed by the name on your passenger card or passport.

It might be the reason, yes. However, JO knew his names didn't match up and was fine with it. Personally, I think his main reason to take a different flight is for the exact issue we are having now... no-one can prove he took Marion overseas, no-one can prove he was with her in UK, no-one can prove he was the last to see her, because his passport shows he was on different flights!

 

[gymtonic]

good find! Which company was this?

Sorry, I can't be sure. It was on one of the closed threads (and I read it before I became a member). I was hoping it might ring a bell with whoever here who was doing these searches on companies. Alternatively if someone can remember which thread contained these searches I can go back and look?

Oh wait, I got my first computer in early 1992, but then there were no isps around until 1994. Apart from the Uni.

So a false memory from me of getting my computer in 1994, it was 1992. I did get online in 1992 but it was the World Wide Web then and you used things like Lynx, Newsgroups and Bulletin Boards.

It was really something I couldn't talk about with friends, they'd just stare at me blankly LOL.

Also there was a "dodgy" male colleague who used to spend a lot of time on ICQ in late 1990s/ early 2000s. it was a forerunner of a chat room, but asynchronous rather than synchronous.

 

[mishy66]

It might be the reason, yes. However, JO knew his names didn't match up and was fine with it. Personally, I think his main reason to take a different flight is for the exact issue we are having now... no-one can prove he took Marion overseas, no-one can prove he was with her in UK, no-one can prove he was the last to see her, because his passport shows he was on different flights!

Absolutely.
And I could never be a criminal - it's all so complex living a lie!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

ICQ was a great little programme when it started. I don't know when it turned into chat rooms ? I never saw any, but I might have left it by then. You don't mean PalTalk do you, they have heaps of chat rooms.

When I used ICQ, it was just individual people messaging others. Most people in the beginning were nice and polite but it changed after it was sold.

it was a forerunner of a chat room, but asynchronous rather than synchronous.

 

[centred]

He could have. But as far as we know from the inquest, he only had one legal name and passport at the time – RLW. Remember that passports are different than fake IDs. It's a fact he had fake IDs and multiple aliases. It's only speculation he had other illegal passports. The inquest has never uttered those words. I think he would be locked up if police had clear evidence that he had multiple passports in different names, and flew out in one name and came back in on another.

i don't understand did we not already see documents with multiple names and passports ?
i have been under some sort if delusion in that case

 

[ruby925]

Marion had previously changed her name, prior to a marriage. It was to Barter I think.

Who was it that she said that changing your name was easy, you just do it by deed poll.

So it's not something she didn't know about and it was something she had done prior to marriage before.

I can't explain why this time it wouldn't have been just Marion Remakel. Those names could have been suggested to her.

If not and it was all her, then it left a trail of breadcrumbs which came back much later to haunt RB.

I believe Marion's previous name change to Brown was not by deed poll, think this was an error in one of the forums imo.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

No it was said in one of the threads before that she changed her name to Barter, prior to marrying.

I believe Marion's previous name change to Brown was not by deed poll, think this was an error in one of the forums imo.

 

[Estelle]

Random thought. Upon arrival into UK airports, Immigration usually want to know circumstances of your visit, business or pleasure, length of intended stay etc, whether you have a visa if you intend to work or be a student.. your answer needs to be supported by evidence of funds (particularly if you have a one way ticket) or your return ticket. Obviously a ticket has to be in the same name as your passport (this has been checked by airlines in UK for over 40years to my knowledge). So if RB bought Marion's ticket, it would have to be in the Florabella name and therefore he was aware of her name change.
Or is there a legally acceptable document from the deed poll name change so that Marion could have travelled under the old name? Or did she buy her own ticket (not the established pattern)?

I suspect that Marion bought her own airline ticket as she did not claim she was poor as JO did and was apparently.

I also wonder if Immigration officials are not so strict when you arrive by ferry from Europe as it is not your first entry into Europe. Was the UK part of the European Union in 1997?

 

[gymtonic]

Another part of DW's testimony that drew my attention because of personal connections there was the reference to them visiting (spending some time?) in Bordeaux in SW France. In earlier threads and timelines the spelling of this city has been misspelt (but I was unable to comment as the thread was marked closed). Having also heard elsewhere a reference to Algeria, I was reminded of my connections which were with the French Algerian families (in internet searches you will find them referenced by the derogatory term Pieds Noir) who relocated to mainland France during the late 1950s and early 1960s (especially following Algerian Independence in 1962). Anyway, many thousands came in through Marseille and then either stayed in that city or dispersed to other locations. In the case of the people I knew, they relocated to Bordeaux and as far as I remember there was quite a large community of "pieds noirs" in Bordeaux.

 

[BonnieB]

Marion's possible timeline
Applying JOs experience to Marion...

Marion ships her belongings to RB's house as he offered to store her things until they return from their trip.
When she returns to Aus, she intends to buy a much smaller apartment by the water (she told Sally this once).

Once in the UK, RB tells Marion to place unneeded bags in Heathrow storage.
He tells her to leave all her Aus paperwork in there so it won't get stolen.
It includes her birth certificate, medicare, drivers licence, Aus bankcard and jewellery.
She only keeps her passport and Barclays card.

They hire a car and make stops as per postcards.
As usual, RB doesn't do much touristy stuff and sights seeing.
So Marion is bored and confused, but has plenty of time to wander around on her own and write postcards.
RB tells her they can't go on the Orient Express because he has business to do.

He checks her into an accommodation and leaves her alone for a few days.
He then calls Marion and claims he was robbed and is recovering in hospital for a few weeks.
In reality, he's back at Heathrow, taking Marion's bag full of clothes and documents.
He returns to Aus with the intention of leaving Marion stranded in the UK.
It's OK, she as $20k to get by on and she'll never find him upon her return because he isn't really FR.

His plan is, if Marion ever calls police, they'll confuse FR/Aus for FR/Lux (hence Lux lies on passenger cards)
It's great because he hates FR/Lux because he was MCs husband and RB is still infatuated with MC.
It's spiteful payback, essentially.

Marion, still in the UK, is suddenly very suspicious after RB's last phone call.
She suspect's he went back to Aus without her and that he might be trying to fleece her.

She calls Sally, and tells her she'll be busy for a while and to not expect contact.
She doesn't tell Sally the truth because she feels ashamed by how much this man tricked her.
She's also not 100% convinced? She wants to see him face-to-face. She wants to take care of it herself.
Marion buys herself a plane ticket and returns to Aus.

Back in Aus, RB starts withdrawing Marion's cash with the intention of disappearing.
He chose Byron because he knows a teller who accepts bribes.
Occasionally this teller works at Burleigh Heads and Ashmore.
RB and wife buy a car to make all the trips to the bank in a car no-one recognises as theirs.

Marion finds RB, she wants to call the police but there's a confrontation.
They use the car to make to make Marion disappear.
They have to sell the car now.

I have roughly the same theory except I believe Marion found and confronted him before he had time to start withdrawing her money. IMO Marion died between 3rd and 10th October in NSW. The 'disposable' car was then needed to hide Marion's body and then to extract her money. When everything was complete, loose ends cut, the car was sold. Nice and tidy except for that 'unexpected' Remakel surname. And he almost got away with it!

 

[Zanzibar]

it is not a matter off affording a computer , in the 90s it just was no where near the norm for many of us . I was a really slow starter and installed my first one in 2005 and still had many family and friends not bothering but of course now one has very little option to be off grid , off line .

So no i do not think or believe they had access in the 90s ....we did things very differently , we had land lines and maybe a fax for business type dealings

I had a home computer in the 90’s and used to email my mother and father who where in their 60’s at the time. We also used to email friends in Ireland and the UK at the time. Not everyone had them but a lot I knew did.

edit to clarify timeline. I had my home computer in 1992 for study and then remember emailing my parents around the time I had my kids in the late 90’s

 

[ruby925]

who looks at our traveling companions passports ? especially ones we don't actually fly with

I meant this in reference to the post about them getting married in Narita?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It's not out of the question that someone could have had a computer in the 90s, mid to late 90s they became more common.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

What if, yes, it was a scam. Which is what I believe.

Seems a likely MO which may have worked and Marion was so devastated at losing all she had worked and saved all her life, and felt she couldn't face her family and friends knowing how gullible she had been. Is it possible she did something to herself and her body is yet to be discovered if it ever will. Is it less likely to be discovered if she ended up in the ocean.

If that's what happened can someone be charged over her death, because to me it seems they still would have caused it.

 

[Estelle]

I thought RB flew out in one name and flew back using another.

I think this is where a mistake has occurred in a timeline posted on WS which I did not compose.

1997-06-17 Mr Blum, according to international movement records – travelled via Japan with his outgoing passenger card saying he intended to spend 30 days in Belgium.

1997-07-31 RB returned to Australia using name of “Richard Lloyd Westbury” on his passport following change by Deedpoll.

So now I have learnt that RB flew in and out using a passport in the name of Richard Lloyd Westbury.