Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[poppypopcorn]

Winchester and Winchelsea are different places. Winchelsea (which the lovely Mr Casselden pronounced as Win-CHEL-sea like the London area of Chelsea with "win" in front) is actually pronounced more like Winchell-sea, with the emphasis on the WIN.

It's a very small place, close to Rye and Hastings where we know Marion definitely was - or where postcards mentioned. Tiny place, like four streets and one shop/post office kind of place. A few farm based B&Bs on the edges of the village mind you.

Winchester is further west and definitely somewhere tourists would want to see. Huge cathedral. Lovely old part of town, loads of shopping and cafes and antique shops.

 

[vivienbee]

When they go over the places he visited and lived in the UK, it makes me suspect that they think that Marion may have met her demise there.

I personally think that Casselden is just trying to establish a pattern of his movements/places he is associated with, so that when he brings up the travel markers on Marion's postcards he can drill into the similarities and throw off any chance RB has of claiming they were coincidentally in the same country at the same time.

IMO I also think she would have taken her other passport and most of her ID may have still been in the name of Marion as she may not have had time to change it all if you are in a hurry to do everything Marion had to do at the last minute.

Don't you have to surrender your old passport when you apply for a new one? They usually send it back in the post after your new one is issued but I think it invalidates the old passport. Not sure what the process was in the 90s though.

 

[vivienbee]

It seems from what was said today that Andree Flamme was an old lady who he took advantage of and stole from. I would wager that his trips to visit his "family" consisted of him visiting old ladies and stealing their valuables, then either selling them in Europe or bringing them back to Australia to sell.

Marion did mention sitting and having tea with some old ladies in her postcards...

 

[poppypopcorn]

Yeah Colchester - that's a weird one. RB too very convoluted trips to the UK from Belgium. Look at a map... in the 90s, there were loads of ferries from Calais in France over to Dover in Kent. Kent is close to where he was travelling with Marion - south of London. Also the options of driving onto a Eurostar train, or catching a train direct from Lille to London or Ashford

But our Ric travelled to Rotterdam/Hook of Holland, then a 5 hour sailing to the UK rather than 90 minutes from Calais, then a train to Colchester, which is north east of London. Then pick up a car in Colchester to drive to Kent - which involves going round the M25 orbital motorway, across the Dartford crossing to the east of London - about 100 miles or more. A lot of very busy, very crowded roads for a man who never even drove his kids to school in Australia. I get why he would go BACK that way if he were headed to Schipol airport in Amsterdam , but it's a weird route to take.

 

[Meligator]

I researched this family quite extensively yesterday as I just knew there was more to the Flamme story. I think this story runs deep, I feel that he knew of Emile Flamme from the early days, he didn’t stumble across Andrée by chance.

Someone he knew possessed valuable coins perhaps?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Colchester (sp!) has been mentioned too several times

He was all over the place with this bit of his story. He picked up the hire car after leaving Harwich ferry port and catching the train to Colchester (so this is Essex North of London and the Dartford Crossing).

He then states he left the hire car near Dover Priory station (on the Kent coast) suggesting it can be left anywhere for the hire firm to pick it up. But then changes the story again by saying he went back up to Harwich so presumably dropped the hire car off back in Colchester and did the reverse journey back to Harwich/Hook of Holland.

Why not catch the ferry at Dover to France. It’s a lot easier and he was there with JO when dumping her at the station.

It’s obvious why. He needed to get back to Amsterdam, pick up those suitcases/papers and rush back to Australia on his return ticket.

 

[Meligator]

Does anyone know what is required to be included in the brief of evidence? This inquest relates to Marion, but does all information known to police regarding RB need to be included? Or are they including just enough to establish patterns of behavior similar to what may have happened to Marion? I guess what I’m asking is, if police had additional damning info on him, are they required to include it in the brief of evidence he has seen?

 

[vivienbee]

I don't really understand what his game plan was with JO either. So he's got her documents and left her high and dry in the UK. She's signed power of attorney over to him willingly, so maybe that explains the rest of what I'm about to say because it would have made his actions "legal". He goes back to Aus with the deeds to her house and digs up whatever meagre amount of jewellery was buried in the yard. What then?

Unless you try some kind of quick sale at auction, it takes time to sell a house. He couldn't have just cashed in immediately and made away with her assets. He must have known that she'd go to the authorities when she discovered what he'd done. I understand the idea that he was maybe counting on her being too embarrassed to report him/contest anything but I think that would be a huge risk to bank on.

Even if she willing signed over the power of attorney, her sons could have easily contested it.

"An Agent with power of attorney is legally required to act in the best interest of the Principal. If you believe an Agent is taking advantage of their Principal and wish to override power of attorney, you may need to challenge it in court and provide evidence that the Agent is being grossly negligent or abusive."

Going from the above, I think they would have been able to mount a solid case against him. There's no way he could have been completely in the wind with the funds and deeds tied to his name, even it was an alias.

I'm just spitballing here so if anyone could shed their theories/insight that would be great.

 

[Passingthru]

I don't really understand what his game plan was with JO either. So he's got her documents and left her high and dry in the UK. She's signed power of attorney over to him willingly, so maybe that explains the rest of what I'm about to say because it would have made his actions "legal". He goes back to Aus with the deeds to her house and digs up whatever meagre amount of jewellery was buried in the yard. What then?

Unless you try some kind of quick sale at auction, it takes time to sell a house. He couldn't have just cashed in immediately and made away with her assets. He must have known that she'd go to the authorities when she discovered what he'd done. I understand the idea that he was maybe counting on her being too embarrassed to report him/contest anything but I think that would be a huge risk to bank on.

Even if she willing signed over the power of attorney, her sons could have easily contested it.

"An Agent with power of attorney is legally required to act in the best interest of the Principal. If you believe an Agent is taking advantage of their Principal and wish to override power of attorney, you may need to challenge it in court and provide evidence that the Agent is being grossly negligent or abusive."

Going from the above, I think they would have been able to mount a solid case against him. There's no way he could have been completely in the wind with the funds and deeds tied to his name, even it was an alias.

I'm just spitballing here so if anyone could shed their theories/insight that would be great.

I always assumed he was surprised to see her, not because she returned home so quickly but that she HAD returned home. But I think the worst of everyone.

 

[vivienbee]

I always assumed he was surprised to see her, not because she returned home so quickly but that she HAD returned home. But I think the worst of everyone.

So you think he had someone in the UK waiting in the wings to kill her? But she came home before that could happen?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I don't really understand what his game plan was with JO either. So he's got her documents and left her high and dry in the UK. She's signed power of attorney over to him willingly, so maybe that explains the rest of what I'm about to say because it would have made his actions "legal". He goes back to Aus with the deeds to her house and digs up whatever meagre amount of jewellery was buried in the yard. What then?

Unless you try some kind of quick sale at auction, it takes time to sell a house. He couldn't have just cashed in immediately and made away with her assets. He must have known that she'd go to the authorities when she discovered what he'd done. I understand the idea that he was maybe counting on her being too embarrassed to report him/contest anything but I think that would be a huge risk to bank on.

Even if she willing signed over the power of attorney, her sons could have easily contested it.

"An Agent with power of attorney is legally required to act in the best interest of the Principal. If you believe an Agent is taking advantage of their Principal and wish to override power of attorney, you may need to challenge it in court and provide evidence that the Agent is being grossly negligent or abusive."

Going from the above, I think they would have been able to mount a solid case against him. There's no way he could have been completely in the wind with the funds and deeds tied to his name, even it was an alias.

I'm just spitballing here so if anyone could shed their theories/insight that would be great.

It’s a excellent post and I really wish I had a decent response.

Is he though some clever criminal that had thought through the whole process before embarking on his masterplan?

He does seems to have a love for legal documents because as in his words “it’s so easy”.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

We are still no wiser where he and JO stayed when leaving Colchester with the hire car and ending up in Dover/Deal. He didn’t want to admit he had been to East Sussex again.

As I mentioned in a post yesterday he strikes me as though he’s a drinker and he did admit to going to Pubs, eating and staying there with JO. I wonder if he avoids going to the same place twice? Does he have favourite pubs in South East England?

I wonder with his lack of money whether they did a runner from any of these establishments?

I so wish JO could remember more.

 

[Passingthru]

So you think he had someone in the UK waiting in the wings to kill her? But she came home before that could happen?

I wasn’t sure if he had an accomplice, or what (poison, rigged accident like brake lines cut, or something else). But it just flagged in my brain as “thought she was dead”.

 

[gingertn]

I don't really understand what his game plan was with JO either. So he's got her documents and left her high and dry in the UK. She's signed power of attorney over to him willingly, so maybe that explains the rest of what I'm about to say because it would have made his actions "legal". He goes back to Aus with the deeds to her house and digs up whatever meagre amount of jewellery was buried in the yard. What then?

Unless you try some kind of quick sale at auction, it takes time to sell a house. He couldn't have just cashed in immediately and made away with her assets. He must have known that she'd go to the authorities when she discovered what he'd done. I understand the idea that he was maybe counting on her being too embarrassed to report him/contest anything but I think that would be a huge risk to bank on.

Even if she willing signed over the power of attorney, her sons could have easily contested it.

"An Agent with power of attorney is legally required to act in the best interest of the Principal. If you believe an Agent is taking advantage of their Principal and wish to override power of attorney, you may need to challenge it in court and provide evidence that the Agent is being grossly negligent or abusive."

Going from the above, I think they would have been able to mount a solid case against him. There's no way he could have been completely in the wind with the funds and deeds tied to his name, even it was an alias.

I'm just spitballing here so if anyone could shed their theories/insight that would be great.

I agree and can't figure out what exactly he was up to.

Would it be possible for him to mortgage the home since he had the deed and POA? He would get the money he is after and figures she wouldn't be back so soon and by then, he could change his name and move again. She wouldn't be able to find him.

 

[vivienbee]

I agree and can't figure out what exactly he was up to.

Would it be possible for him to mortgage the home since he had the deed and POA? He would get the money he is after and figures she wouldn't be back so soon and by then, he could change his name and move again. She wouldn't be able to find him.

Mortgaging the home makes a lot more sense (I'm not a homeowner so didn't think of that ). Even so, I think he would have had to provide identification with the bank for himself as well as the POA. Potentially doable with his alias and he might have been able to put some space between him and the crime.

Maybe he got cocky after managing to swindle for so long, but I think that this would have triggered a huge investigation if he got caught and the net would have been tightening.

Which is maybe why he didn't go through with it in the end? He DID have her deeds (which he stole from her even after she returned to Aus so he very much knew she was alive at this point), and he DID still have POA. Yet he didn't go through with trying to do anything profitable with this. Why? If it's just because he thought she'd go to the police, why steal them back in the first place?

 

[katwingbat]

I based my reasoning on the facts that

1. RB returned to Australia ARRIVING HERE VIA JAPAN? on 31st July, 1997 - two days before Marion ARRIVED. IS THIS AN ESTABLISHED FACT?

2. Marion phoned Sally on 1st August, 1997 so she was still alive then. RB was in Australia so he could not have caused her death then.

3. But where was Marion when she made that phone call? Sussex in England? OR During her stopover in Hong Kong on her way back.

My musings tonight:

If DH had flown to the UK (using another passport not in her name) in the school holidays and possibly been introduced as Mazz to Marion, IMO her role would have been to return to Australia using Marion's Florabella passport dressed in "old-fashioned clothes" with dark hair with a fringe. Photos could have been swapped in those days too. RB could have persuaded Marion (as he did with JO) to leave all her documents including her passport in a shared locker at Heathrow airport to which RB had the key. DH would not have had time to do away with Marion as she had to catch a flight. So IMO DH and RB had everything they needed to commit the frauds in Australia. But the problem is that Marion would have still been alive and able to report them when she later learned that her banks were drained. So if Marion was unaware that RB and DH had flown back to Australia, and made no more phone calls to Sally in the next week or so, I think that the Dutch dentist could have been a hitman paid by RB to end MB's life.

In this scenario, I think RB would have bought DH a return ticket which Marion did not know about and perhaps DH only stayed there a few days. I don't think Diane used Marion's ticket but then how did RB get Marion to fill in the Arrivals Card in advance unless she was coerced? Perhaps he is good at forging handwriting? What was filled in on that card has never made sense to me. Apart from the flight No being filled in by somebody else, I also noticed that the tick besides Married was also different.

I just can't imagine a Teacher like Marion agreeing to saying that she is only going to stay 3 (or was it 8?) days in Australia as it's a long return flight to take in a week. IMO I also think she would have taken her other passport and most of her ID may have still been in the name of Marion as she may not have had time to change it all if you are in a hurry to do everything Marion had to do at the last minute. Also the idea that you can only withdraw small amounts of $5,000 due to losing interest in a high interest account does not make sense if she was in a hurry to get her money. Surely the bank could have transferred all of it to her other account in the UK. Nobody takes cash out unless you are RB!

Putting that she was a Housewife living in Luxembourg is also strange as she does not seem to have gone there especially if his story is that he was going to help her to buy a school in the UK. Were they married at the hotel in Narita airport? It is a possibility as I read you can do that in one day. But was the marriage ever registered? I doubt it. I also can't imagine RB being with Marion for the whole time she was in the UK. His goal would have been to get her documents put in that other suitcase he told her to bring (with her winter clothes) into the locker at Heathrow airport and job was done once he had the key. He would have then abandoned her as soon as he felt he could saying he had business dealings to attend to in Luxembourg and would catch up with her when he could and go on the Orient Express with her later for their honeymoon. He then sends his friends, Mazz (DH) and the Dutch Dentist over there to meet Marion at her hotel.

These are just thoughts I have had tonight so please pick holes in them!

I think this is very plausible - but the only question is why the second car in Australia if DDH and RB are in on it together?

 

[Meligator]

I haven’t yet been able to listen to whole thing, but wondering if MC accused him of stealing anything from her? I think he maybe holds her in higher regard because he never carried out his full scam of her. The letters/cards he sent were probably an attempt to retain her interest so he could show up later and finish his job. But for women he successfully cons, he views them as intellectually inferior and hold in lower regard.

Doesn’t seem like there is any action he takes that isn’t part of a con. Some actions just laying groundwork for later con. The women con is one, but likely there are others involving coins and who knows what else.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

You are all amazing. This is the best thread I’ve ever followed. Thank you! What @TheCoolestNeopian wrote really grabbed me. I’m not a sleuth, but I am a former fiction writer. Ric Blum is the perfect character and what we know of him makes a lot of narrative sense to me, meaning it resembles the plot of a well-written thriller. Sadly, in this narrative, Marion is just one of many women hurt by RB. I think @TheCoolestNeopian hit on an important point by outlining the differences in Marion’s situation. This Marion Difference is, I believe, key. Based on all of your posts, the following Marion story is my take.

—

RB lands in Australia a petty criminal and low-grade swindler. He has a European police record, and Australia offers distance and new identities. It also offers the colonials’ love of a European accent. He quickly learns that people fall for his tales, bravado, and schemes based on bits and pieces of knowledge. What comes first? The personal ads or the cons he dreamed up? We may never know, but he quickly learns that needy, middle-aged women are easy prey. There are plenty of failures, but with each one, RB learns something and hones his skills.

Since RB believes he is smarter than everyone in Australia, he eventually figures out how to prey “legally” with no provable wrongdoing. The key is getting women to willingly hand over things. Money, property, jewelry, coins, furniture. RB gets bolder. He creates a scheme to separate his victims from their safety zones. If he takes them to Europe, Bali, Korea— any place else— they will be even more vulnerable. He settles on the UK, where he once lived. There he can carry the con to its conclusion by acting the tour guide and bon vivant, then vanish back to Australia and a different name. Exactly the way outlaws in the American West rode out to vanish in a faraway canyon or a lawless county.

Along comes Marion. There is no doubt in my mind she answered the FR personal, and that sealed her fate. She is the perfect mark. How RB groomed her! He’d learned so much. The school receives his fake calls about MB’s misconduct, and RB consoles her. Tells her she’s too smart to be a teacher. Encourages her dreams of European travel and then eventually, her dream of marriage and life in Luxembourg. Would they open a school, sell furniture, make millions in the coin business? The sky’s the limit.

The trip is planned. The furniture shipped to Luxembourg (or ??), the house sold, the tickets bought. Marion and RB arrive in UK, and immediately the trip is disappointing. Marion tells RB she changed her name. He’s stunned and punishes her by cancelling the Orient Express trip. But the real kicker is that Marion either didn’t follow instructions to make her house money available in the UK or she thought she had, but with her name change or other anomoly, she is unable to perform the funds transfer as planned.

(to be continued)

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

If Mr aka has to hand in his passport, just how many is that?

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

(part 2 and conclusion of the story)

—

In the UK, RB is so close to pulling off his complete swindle of Marion, but what to do about the house money in Australia? Marion must go back to withdraw it. RB would never try and fake that. THAT would be absolute theft and it would be on his home turf. He knows there is deed poll evidence of Marion’s changed name linking her to him.

Marion is promised a new life in Luxembourg, once they have her money. They’ll only fly back for a few days— perhaps on different flights, as RB makes his excuses sound plausible. Marion does what she’s told, but finds she is limited in her withdrawals. So she takes the opportunity to go to her optometrist and perhaps see about other medical issues. After all it will be a while before she can see a new doctor. These are the mundane things we do before starting a new life. But once again, she is not following orders from RB.

Here’s where Marion becomes the one with a difference. Did her suspicions suddenly cause her to act out, to challenge RB? Did his rage come when he finds out she saw doctors? Talked to people around the motel? Did her anger trigger his own childhood of female abandonment, so that he loses control and assaults her? Did she threaten to turn him in? To call her family? Did she go through his wallet and find out that he had many different names? Follow him to his home with D?

The one thing I know happened is that back on home turf, in Australia, being separated from RB as he went back and forth to his wife-- Marion feels stronger. Less sure she wants adventure. Happy to be home and near security, she starts to question everything. But it's too late. Whatever happens in Australia, it is outside RB’s standard operating procedure. Marion upsets the plan, and Marion loses. She is murdered either by accident or by intent. RB has the money and all other the other things Marion had, but now there is a murder and he is linked to it. He calls his wife. He tells her everything, completely blaming Marion. Now his wife is an accessory to his crime of murder. They dispose of Marion’s body.

Everything changes for RB, and for a short while— months, years— he lays low. He swears to himself, he’ll be more careful. He’ll change. But as anyone who knows grifters knows, they never change. The tragedy of Marion was just a blip on RB’s radar, and he moves on.