Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #22

[mishy66]

Yes, but AKA wanted GDD to keep their relationship and future plans to settle in Australia a secret from her children because it 'would be fun'.

Luckily GDD did share her plans with her children. Otherwise there might have been a very different outcome.

Yes he cooked a dinner for the family so they did know of him. Thats when the subject of poisons came up.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Yes he cooked a dinner for the family so they did know of him. Thats when the subject of poisons came up.

Not sure I’d want Aka cooking any meal for me or have a toast beforehand looking at your earlier timeline Mishy.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Yes, but AKA wanted GDD to keep their relationship and future plans to settle in Australia a secret from her children because it 'would be fun'.

Luckily GDD did share her plans with her children. Otherwise there might have been a very different outcome.

Yes, exactly this. What was he planning to do with GDD - abandon her with all her resources stripped and no way of finding him, leaving her free to go to the authorities -OR- take her life?? Because then no pesky come back.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Yes he cooked a dinner for the family so they did know of him. Thats when the subject of poisons came up.

Yep only because she *insisted* he meet her family - like you don't meet my boys, you don't have a plan with me. Saved her life, probably.

 

[*juniper*]

Yes, exactly this. What was he planning to do with GDD - abandon her with all her resources stripped and no way of finding him, leaving her free to go to the authorities -OR- take her life?? Because then no pesky come back.

Most likely abandon her after he had taken all her money. But, if necessary he could have invented a reason why he had to urgently return to Australia, arrange for GGD to fly to Brisbane on a flight a couple of days later, instruct her to check in to the Novotel and wait for his phone call. Then she is instructed to take the train from Brisbane to Grafton, where he will meet her at the station. JMO

 

[mishy66]

Yes, exactly this. What was he planning to do with GDD - abandon her with all her resources stripped and no way of finding him, leaving her free to go to the authorities -OR- take her life?? Because then no pesky come back.

But that is the thing - he doesn't care if they know him ~

He did the exact same thing to his own relative!
His cousins wife WAS FAMILY - he took her to Bali and left her there with no means to get home - he had her passport in the hotel safe and only he knew the code - He stole her money, jewellery, her coin collection and got her to collect coins for him using her own name before they left.

The WHOLE Coppenolle family knew him. They knew him as WW and as FdeH.

That is why I put up on the victims if family knew him.

Because MB was the ONLY one so far that the family didn't know of him and the ONLY one so far who changed her name and got a new passport - even though she only renewed her old one the year prior.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Indeed ITA with above and sadly...

As MB is the *only one we know of* where no family / friends knew of him (as far as we are aware) then how many others that had no family or friends to advocate for them. If it were not for Sally, we wouldn't even know about Marion

I know I've said this before but how many childless women, how many women with a bit of a vulnerability or mental health problem, how many women with a drug or alcohol problem, or a woman with known convictions, or women who were general itinerant or travellers not fixed to a location, how many married women, or women who were far too ashamed to tell another living soul, women who were blackmailed by 'sexy photos', menaced / threatened, found dead but no suspicious circumstances presumed suicide or natural causes or accidental ...

This is a feminist issue if nothing else. Women are not born into this life to be nothing but feed for a vicious predator. Gosh I'm so angry.

 

[mishy66]

Indeed ITA with above and sadly...

As MB is the *only one we know of* where no family / friends knew of him (as far as we are aware) then how many others that had no family or friends to advocate for them. If it were not for Sally, we wouldn't even know about Marion

I know I've said this before but how many childless women, how many women with a bit of a vulnerability or mental health problem, how many women with a drug or alcohol problem, or a woman with known convictions, or women who were general itinerant or travellers not fixed to a location, how many married women, or women who were far too ashamed to tell another living soul, women who were blackmailed by 'sexy photos', menaced / threatened, found dead but no suspicious circumstances presumed suicide or natural causes or accidental ...

This is a feminist issue if nothing else. Women are not born into this life to be nothing but feed for a vicious predator. Gosh I'm so angry.

heartbreaking

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

But that is the thing - he doesn't care if they know him ~

He did the exact same thing to his own relative!
His cousins wife WAS FAMILY - he took her to Bali and left her there with no means to get home - he had her passport in the hotel safe and only he knew the code - He stole her money, jewellery, her coin collection and got her to collect coins for him using her own name before they left.

The WHOLE Coppenolle family knew him. They knew him as WW and as FdeH.

That is why I put up on the victims if family knew him.

Because MB was the ONLY one so far that the family didn't know of him and the ONLY one so far who changed her name and got a new passport - even though she only renewed her old one the year prior.

I know I sound like a broken record, raving about the L Richards' podcasts -- but she repeats the point that as AKA's career progressed with no consequences he got bolder and bolder. In Luxembourg MC and DdH lived within a block of each other (or some insanely small distance.) He felt he could make it work no matter how many curve balls. AND it was all for his own convenience. With Marion, he was careful not to meet the kids. Then success and more bravado. If meeting the kids moved the scam faster, by gum, he'd meet the kids. Seeing the patterns is much easier for me in the recap of the LR podcasts because the story (for me) became so jumbled after TLV. This is one of the reasons AKA is so dangerous. He has no fear of consequences.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Indeed ITA with above and sadly...

As MB is the *only one we know of* where no family / friends knew of him (as far as we are aware) then how many others that had no family or friends to advocate for them. If it were not for Sally, we wouldn't even know about Marion

I know I've said this before but how many childless women, how many women with a bit of a vulnerability or mental health problem, how many women with a drug or alcohol problem, or a woman with known convictions, or women who were general itinerant or travellers not fixed to a location, how many married women, or women who were far too ashamed to tell another living soul, women who were blackmailed by 'sexy photos', menaced / threatened, found dead but no suspicious circumstances presumed suicide or natural causes or accidental ...

This is a feminist issue if nothing else. Women are not born into this life to be nothing but feed for a vicious predator. Gosh I'm so angry.

A pattern I noted from @mishy66 recent lists and from L Richards' podcasts is that the women are amazingly articulate, smart, presentable, even attractive. JO was very inexperienced but in the end she stood up to AKA. You're right. He may have preyed on far more vulnerable women, but there seems something in his makeup that chooses victims who are "worthy" of his attentions. That makes the game harder and more exciting for him. He also tailors the con to his victim. With JO he didn't bother making the abroad trips interesting, but with Marion it seems he had to try a little harder to keep her engaged. Just my guess.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

A pattern I noted from @mishy66 recent lists and from L Richards' podcasts is that the women are amazingly articulate, smart, presentable, even attractive. JO was very inexperienced but in the end she stood up to AKA. You're right. He may have preyed on far more vulnerable women, but there seems something in his makeup that chooses victims who are "worthy" of his attentions. That makes the game harder and more exciting for him. He also tailors the con to his victim. With JO he didn't bother making the abroad trips interesting, but with Marion it seems he had to try a little harder to keep her engaged. Just my guess.

I take your point but I would argue that we only got to hear about the women we know *because* they're articulate, smart, presentable, even attractive, and had family / encouragement to support them. Also he wanted their big money - life savings and houses - and less advantaged women wouldn't have the big money but they would have had smaller items such as jewellery, watches, cash savings kept in the home, antiques or stamps or coins or bits and bobs of furniture. Police would not be in any way interested.

I believe every woman who fell below that 'peak advantage' situation is not yet known and may never be. This man is a monster. We are but scratching the surface IMO and we are talking about women who were quite privileged.

I'm saying this is a man who would literally take your umbrella from the cafeteria door if it were raining outside and the vast majority of his crimes will never be known to anyone except the victim.

Why would he care about consequences, he spent the first 80 years of his life not having many.

JMO MOO

 

[Candytuft]

I'm not quite sure what to think about MC. She says again and again that she was not a victim because she was strong, independent and no-one would ever take her money. Well, he didn't take money because he got something else from her. It was a long relationship. They both got something.
I don't like the inference that other women weren't as clever as she was just because he didn't steal from her. She was useful in some way.
JMO.

 

[mishy66]

I take your point but I would argue that we only got to hear about the women we know *because* they're articulate, smart, presentable, even attractive, and had family / encouragement to support them. Also he wanted their big money - life savings and houses - and less advantaged women wouldn't have the big money but they would have had smaller items such as jewellery, watches, cash savings kept in the home, antiques or stamps or coins or bits and bobs of furniture. Police would not be in any way interested.

I believe every woman who fell below that 'peak advantage' situation is not yet known and may never be. This man is a monster. We are but scratching the surface IMO and we are talking about women who were quite privileged.

I'm saying this is a man who would literally take your umbrella from the cafeteria door if it were raining outside and the vast majority of his crimes will never be known to anyone except the victim.

Why would he care about consequences, he spent the first 80 years of his life not having many.

JMO MOO

Totally agree here.

Theres so much ground not known yet between 1994 and 1997
I'm imagining for everyone victim OS, there is another Australian victim in the same year.

I see patterns in that missing persons theory.

And theres NO denying he had a plan for Marion with her name change etc.


HOW MANY more women went through this that havent been found.


I love the LR poscast, dont get me wrong, but as a WHOLE package into the goings on of AH, every single media angle helps paint a fuller picture.

 

[mishy66]

I'm not quite sure what to think about MC. She says again and again that she was not a victim because she was strong, independent and no-one would ever take her money. Well, he didn't take money because he got something else from her. It was a long relationship. They both got something.
I don't like the inference that other women weren't as clever as she was just because he didn't steal from her. She was useful in some way.
JMO.

Totally agree

Much more with this union IMO

 

[CuriousKat99]

I love the LR poscast, dont get me wrong, but as a WHOLE package into the goings on of AH, every single media angle helps paint a fuller picture.

Exactly, any publicity from as many angles as possible in this case is beneficial to get justice for Marion and the many other victims, known and unknown.

There is only one person who doesn’t like the publicity. Unfortunately he has got away with practicing his craft in the shadows for far too long.

 

[VisitorDog]

Totally agree

Much more with this union IMO

I wonder if there was something about wanting to be the real FR and wanting what he had had.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I wonder if there was something about wanting to be the real FR and wanting what he had had.

I doubt he only used the FR name once, he didn't wait almost 10 years to use it.

1988 he is believed to acquire a drivers licence in the name of Fernand Remakel. The license was valid to 1992 and was renewed through to the end of 1997.

 

[mishy66]

I doubt he only used the FR name once, he didn't wait almost 10 years to use it.

1988 he is believed to acquire a drivers licence in the name of Fernand Remakel. The license was valid to 1992 and was renewed through to the end of 1997.

Absolutely , he has used this in scams before Marion.

I keep going back to ER saying she had never heard of the MB case when TLV contacted her.

So you can just imagine how many older women today who may have run into AH yrs before, and have not heard about this case.

These women lived in an era of no social media, no facebook back then. Just living within the realm of neighbourhoods. Most never discussed to anyone if they were living in a DV situation, let alone having been scammed by a creep, because of shame and ridicule.

So many Marions out there. IMO
Its heartbreaking!

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

A pattern I noted from @mishy66 recent lists and from L Richards' podcasts is that the women are amazingly articulate, smart, presentable, even attractive. JO was very inexperienced but in the end she stood up to AKA. You're right. He may have preyed on far more vulnerable women, but there seems something in his makeup that chooses victims who are "worthy" of his attentions. That makes the game harder and more exciting for him. He also tailors the con to his victim. With JO he didn't bother making the abroad trips interesting, but with Marion it seems he had to try a little harder to keep her engaged. Just my guess.

Don’t get me wrong as JO is a vital and brilliant witness but her level of trusting him almost beggars belief. She even offered him a glass of water when he rocked up after dumping her in the UK and still hadn’t clicked he was trying to steal from her. I know a few women who would have chucked the water over him or glassed him at that point!!

Perhaps it’s a generational thing or she is just a vulnerable but very caring and trusting person who was a tad gullible. His ideal victim really.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I do believe there was another victim in 1994 we just need to find them.

He travelled to Europe for just 5 days from the 30/3/94 to 3/4/94 which is bizarre in itself but then the longer trip came on the 27/7/94 to 26/9/94.

Strangely his name was changed by Deed Poll from RLW to FdeH on the 23/9/94 when still in Europe. His passport however was still under the RLW name.

The FR ad appears in Dec 94. I assume this was moving onto the next victim for the European summer of 1995. He seems to like to have at least 1 a year.