Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #4 *ARREST*

[Awakening]

We've done some camping in a tent but not in that area. We mostly use a caravan and have used a caravan in and around Myrtleford/Porepunkah/Bright.

The unspoken rule is you don't put your caravan next to another person's caravan when there are other spots available. It's not good etiquette.

But you only have to be a member on various camping/caravan social media groups to see it happens all the time.

People posting photos and fuming "look at this clown parking this close to my van!". Or running a generator is something that seriously irks people. As are drones.

Gets tricky though when there is a great view, a spot next to the beach or creek as that's when someone is likely to want to camp right next to you, rather than be on a less appealing site.

 

[BrumbyJack]

Yeah a lot stayed closed for months from fire damage, my guess would be south to around Dargo, then out onto the Dargo High Plains rd. It’s a main road so a priority to keep open, but the fire affected secondary tracks stayed closed til they could get in and clear them. Give you an idea, this is cropped pic of the area from forestry fire management website showing the area around there that burnt. I put an x for where wonnangatta is. With lots of track closures less options, and I was even wondering what way he’d even come in. Couldn’t have come in from the north to start with because it had been shut for months, must’ve almost come in via Dargo, is that why he was snapped on cam twice? And not via Zeka because of the trailer.

So what was open? Zeka Spur obviously. I would have thought if the Myrtleford gate was closed then there would be other closures to the north, the Humffray River region tracks that eventually lead to Hotham area. Russell talked to someone about going to Dargo so at any rate the southern part of the Dargo High Plains Road must have been open. Was the road between Dargo and Hotham (which closes for winter, so why not for bushfires?) available? If the driver could get to Dargo he could go south as well as north. Turning at the Myrtleford gate suggests he wanted to go north--but he might instead have been disposing of bodies out that way and the gate was a convenient place to turn.

What do you think, Hotham via Dargo or Hotham via Gunns Track and antecedents?

 

[BrumbyJack]

Basically never travel alone up there, because if you get into trouble you’re stuffed. Break something, need to be towed up a hill, out of a bog, or only made it halfway through a river crossing, tipped over, or worse end up over the side, you’re gonna need a mate. It happens and you can’t always rely on someone to come along and find you. Beside all that it’s more fun in groups anyway.

What do you mean by a recovery vehicle? Do you mean having 2 cars at your campsite? Or 1 car at the campsite and another car further up the road?

 

[JLZ]

Yeah a lot stayed closed for months from fire damage, my guess would be south to around Dargo, then out onto the Dargo High Plains rd. It’s a main road so a priority to keep open, but the fire affected secondary tracks stayed closed til they could get in and clear them. Give you an idea, this is cropped pic of the area from forestry fire management website showing the area around there that burnt. I put an x for where wonnangatta is. With lots of track closures less options, and I was even wondering what way he’d even come in. Couldn’t have come in from the north to start with because it had been shut for months, must’ve almost come in via Dargo, is that why he was snapped on cam twice? And not via Zeka because of the trailer.
View attachment 321946

If the in and out pics were at Dargo, that vehicle might not have been heading 50km to Wonnangatta Station, but to one of the nearer camping sites. Or just driving about in Dargo and not going up river at all. Still they've been asked to 'make themselves known' to police if they were anywhere in the area, Eaglevale, Black Snake Creek and so on. I suspect there could be holes in the identification, cars that have been photographed that might or might not be one of those that have already come forward.

Could there be CCTV at Wonnangatta Station, up where the graveyard and whatever else is located?

 

[SouthAussie]

Remember this? I wonder if anything ever came of this (and why the information was made public).
This could fit with any to/from northerly travel by a suspect vehicle.

It seems that there are cameras on the north route and on the east route in and out of the valley area.


Attention has now turned to the Lake Buffalo Dam as it's one of three main routes that lead into the Wonnangatta area.

A camera lodged on the dam's wall would likely be able to capture if anyone had been coming or going from the valley which could help detectives narrow down if someone else had been with the pair.

Dam footage could hold key into finding missing campers who vanished in Victorian Alps | Daily Mail Online

 

[JLZ]

Remember this? I wonder if anything ever came of this (and why the information was made public).
This could fit with any to/from northerly travel by a suspect vehicle.

It seems that there are cameras on the north route and on the east route in and out of the valley area.


Attention has now turned to the Lake Buffalo Dam as it's one of three main routes that lead into the Wonnangatta area.

A camera lodged on the dam's wall would likely be able to capture if anyone had been coming or going from the valley which could help detectives narrow down if someone else had been with the pair.

Dam footage could hold key into finding missing campers who vanished in Victorian Alps | Daily Mail Online

That makes no sense if a car couldn't get beyond a gate at Van Damme Saddle.

I can't see them taking bodies out to Dargo, up to Hotham, around to Bright, and then on to Lake Buffalo either by back tracks or the main road to Myrtleford.

Have police only just become aware that the 'Myrtleford' gate was closed? Or is there another sufficiently convenient option for bypassing the gate and getting back on the route to Myrtleford?

 

[BrumbyJack]

No idea if there’s one specifically at the old station. There are trail cams out there, no idea if they’re pointed at the roads, usually they’re not but depends whos put them there and why, I guess. Most would be delwp or hunters putting them on game trails.

The pic police released I was thinking was probably from the camera up on the GAR near the Gunns Rd intersection. But you could be right with Dargo? Good bitumen road surface, wherever it is though, won’t be a trail cam.

If the in and out pics were at Dargo, that vehicle might not have been heading 50km to Wonnangatta Station, but to one of the nearer camping sites. Or just driving about in Dargo and not going up river at all. Still they've been asked to 'make themselves known' to police if they were anywhere in the area, Eaglevale, Black Snake Creek and so on. I suspect there could be holes in the identification, cars that have been photographed that might or might not be one of those that have already come forward.

Could there be CCTV at Wonnangatta Station, up where the graveyard and whatever else is located?

 

[Zabble]

If the in and out pics were at Dargo, that vehicle might not have been heading 50km to Wonnangatta Station, but to one of the nearer camping sites. Or just driving about in Dargo and not going up river at all. Still they've been asked to 'make themselves known' to police if they were anywhere in the area, Eaglevale, Black Snake Creek and so on. I suspect there could be holes in the identification, cars that have been photographed that might or might not be one of those that have already come forward.

Could there be CCTV at Wonnangatta Station, up where the graveyard and whatever else is located?

I think it’s very likely LE have spoken to the owner of the trailer and car. I’m sure those cameras captured the rego details and LE would know who the owner is. Worst case scenario if the camera didn’t capture the rego LE would still have been able to lookup who all the owners of blue, 90s Patrols are and after 18 months eliminated any they’re not interested in.

They probably don’t have any solid evidence against their suspect. They probably released details of the car so they a witness can come forward to directly place the Patrol in the area of the crime scene.

 

[Sher Lock]

I wonder if the Nissan Patrol has been resprayed another colour.

 

[Zabble]

I wonder if the Nissan Patrol has been resprayed another colour.

The other day a couple of people on here came across an interesting article regarding a Blue Nissan Patrol and the driver that was reported missing, the article included a rego number. The article specifically noted the missing man drove a Blue Nissan Patrol. We checked and that rego number was linked to a Nissan Patrol that was currently registered as a Gold Nissan Patrol. And it was also a petrol motor.

The posts got taken down because the missing person / owner of that Patrol was being named and sleuthed.

But yes, we tipped the person in to Crimestoppers.

MOO

 

[Sher Lock]

The other day a couple of people on here came across an interesting article regarding a Blue Nissan Patrol and the driver that was reported missing, the article included a rego number. The article specifically noted the man drove a Blue Nissan Patrol. We checked and that rego number was linked to Nissan Patrol that was currently registered as a Gold Nissan Patrol. And it was also a petrol motor.

The posts got taken down because the missing person / owner of that Patrol was being named and sleuthed.

But yes, we tipped the person in to Crimestoppers.

MOO

Very interesting as that would mean that the car had been resprayed after the person was reported missing. I find it odd that an aged blue Patrol would be resprayed in a completely different colour. I could understand it being resprayed in blue ... but gold??

 

[Sher Lock]

The other day a couple of people on here came across an interesting article regarding a Blue Nissan Patrol and the driver that was reported missing, the article included a rego number. The article specifically noted the missing man drove a Blue Nissan Patrol. We checked and that rego number was linked to a Nissan Patrol that was currently registered as a Gold Nissan Patrol. And it was also a petrol motor.

The posts got taken down because the missing person / owner of that Patrol was being named and sleuthed.

But yes, we tipped the person in to Crimestoppers.

MOO

Hopefully this information gets through to Det. Stamper quickly so it can be thoroughly investigated. I tend to think with all the reports they get to Crime Stoppers it may take months to sift through until they get to it. Fingers crossed someone is working overtime going through all the tips received.

 

[BrumbyJack]

I had a tonne of things to do this arvo and here I am looking up stuff on this, you are all a bad influence on me

JLZ the camera is on the GAR at the west boundary heading toward Harrietville. I just watched the vicpol press conference and wrote these down for you from what the detective said re the blue patrol:

“…was seen in the area of the campsite that Russell and Carol were occupying on the 20th of March, and was seen in and around the Wonnangatta valley and was subsequently photographed on a roadside camera heading out of the valley through the Mount Hotham way on the 21st of March.”

When a journo asked what sort of camera, the detective said “..a camera that are used by the resort up there to basically, you know, they have a number of purposes but one of them is for a safety purpose to know who’s moving in and out of the national park up there, for obviously in the snow season, in the fire season as well. So they are actually owned and operated by the Mount Hotham authority up there.”

So there you go, it’s on the GAR, and because there is an embankment it has to be the one on the Harrietville side. And they’re specifically set up to capture number plates so the resort can charge you during snow season if you haven’t bought a pass, but yeah.. ‘safety purpose’ and all that.

If the in and out pics were at Dargo, that vehicle might not have been heading 50km to Wonnangatta Station, but to one of the nearer camping sites. Or just driving about in Dargo and not going up river at all. Still they've been asked to 'make themselves known' to police if they were anywhere in the area, Eaglevale, Black Snake Creek and so on. I suspect there could be holes in the identification, cars that have been photographed that might or might not be one of those that have already come forward.

Could there be CCTV at Wonnangatta Station, up where the graveyard and whatever else is located?

 

[JLZ]

I had a tonne of things to do this arvo and here I am looking up stuff on this, you are all a bad influence on me

JLZ the camera is on the GAR at the west boundary heading toward Harrietville. I just watched the vicpol press conference and wrote these down for you from what the detective said re the blue patrol:

“…was seen in the area of the campsite that Russell and Carol were occupying on the 20th of March, and was seen in and around the Wonnangatta valley and was subsequently photographed on a roadside camera heading out of the valley through the Mount Hotham way on the 21st of March.”

When a journo asked what sort of camera, the detective said “..a camera that are used by the resort up there to basically, you know, they have a number of purposes but one of them is for a safety purpose to know who’s moving in and out of the national park up there, for obviously in the snow season, in the fire season as well. So they are actually owned and operated by the Mount Hotham authority up there.”

So there you go, it’s on the GAR, and because there is an embankment it has to be the one on the Harrietville side. And they’re specifically set up to capture number plates so the resort can charge you during snow season if you haven’t bought a pass, but yeah.. ‘safety purpose’ and all that.

They seem to be using the term Wonnangatta valley in a very broad sense. I'm still not sure if they mean the vehicle was coming out of Gunns Track or after travelling the Dargo High Plains Road, whether they know one way or another, or whether there's evidence it didn't pass Hotham Heights--that is, come from the other direction. But either way being on the GAR at Hotham heading for Harrietville isn't evidence of having been in the valley about the Wonnangatta River, let alone at Billabong or at Van Dammes Saddle.

I wonder how specific the eyewitness to such a vehicle near the campsite has been. Interesting that a blue car has only just been mentioned now; it was all about a white one in previous months.

Sorry to be distracting you. I need to be doing other things as well.

 

[BrumbyJack]

They seem to be using the term Wonnangatta valley in a very broad sense. I'm still not sure if they mean the vehicle was coming out of Gunns Track or after travelling the Dargo High Plains Road, whether they know one way or another, or whether there's evidence it didn't pass Hotham Heights--that is, come from the other direction.

Because Gunns was still closed. So it had to have come off the Dargo High Plains rd. And they’d know if it had come through the Hotham village by checking the east boundary camera on the Omeo side.

 

[spangled]

What really blows my mind about this case is moving the bodies at all, in such a tight time frame.

Presumably the killer also had their own camp to pack up, in the dark, in a hurry. That's no easy task itself. I would imagine that they had had to use the trailer on the way out (otherwise why bring it at all) so it's probably not the case that they just rolled out a swag. So all of that equipment has to go in the car, if the bodies were in the trailer.

If they were burning the camp, why not leave the bodies there?! It seems such high risk to go off driving in the dark with two bodies, how on earth have they managed to hide them so well?

I guess there is the possibility that Carol and Russell were alive at that time (possibly incapacitated) and in the Patrol, with the camping bits in the trailer.

I do wonder if it's someone Russell had encountered there before - I believe he had made a trip up there recently? If there was a prior interaction it could explain why it seems to have escalated so quickly.

 

[SouthAussie]

And they’d know if it had come through the Hotham village by checking the east boundary camera on the Omeo side.

Sounds like they spotted the vehicle on more than one camera at Mount Hotham.


"Detectives believe that same vehicle was then also spotted on two cameras at the top of Mount Hotham, consistent with where a vehicle would exit the valley given the closure of the Myrtleford gate"

https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...s/news-story/0ebe72b0c13d9f738cd51dc4d4c47b5b

 

[SouthAussie]

What really blows my mind about this case is moving the bodies at all, in such a tight time frame.

Presumably the killer also had their own camp to pack up, in the dark, in a hurry. That's no easy task itself. I would imagine that they had had to use the trailer on the way out (otherwise why bring it at all) so it's probably not the case that they just rolled out a swag. So all of that equipment has to go in the car, if the bodies were in the trailer.

If they were burning the camp, why not leave the bodies there?! It seems such high risk to go off driving in the dark with two bodies, how on earth have they managed to hide them so well?

I guess there is the possibility that Carol and Russell were alive at that time (possibly incapacitated) and in the Patrol, with the camping bits in the trailer.

I do wonder if it's someone Russell had encountered there before - I believe he had made a trip up there recently? If there was a prior interaction it could explain why it seems to have escalated so quickly.

I wonder if they can tell that there is only one person in that blue vehicle, on CCTV. If this POI was alone.

Because that really is a lot of work to go through - to pack up camp, as well as torch another camp. Clean up a potential crime scene.
I can't imagine that moving Russell and Carol around would have been an easy task either.

Didn't Russell's friend say that Russell had words with someone there previously? I think he did.

 

[Cagney&Lacey]

The other day a couple of people on here came across an interesting article regarding a Blue Nissan Patrol and the driver that was reported missing, the article included a rego number. The article specifically noted the missing man drove a Blue Nissan Patrol. We checked and that rego number was linked to a Nissan Patrol that was currently registered as a Gold Nissan Patrol. And it was also a petrol motor.

The posts got taken down because the missing person / owner of that Patrol was being named and sleuthed.

But yes, we tipped the person in to Crimestoppers.

MOO

There were two articles. One dated 19 October and the other 7th November. Oddly enough those articles no longer contain a photo of the missing man. Maybe he’s no longer “missing”

 

[Zabble]

There were two articles. One dated 19 October and the other 7th November. Oddly enough those articles no longer contain a photo of the missing man. Maybe he’s no longer “missing”

Yes he's no longer missing. We found his facebook profile and he's been active since being reported missing. Also found a Nissan Patrol on his FB page. He seems to have lost his son and posted on FB about 3 days before the murders that there's no point in life now that his son is now longer alive...