Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #9

[katydid23]

Sorry Elde Fruit but I think even above you are speculating by saying she was screaming because she didn't want to be removed to the balcony. She may have been screaming because she didn't want to go to the balcony. She may have been screaming because she thought GT would kill her. We don't know. We CANT know. Reasonable doubt.

It is Reasonable Doubt. But the problem is that 'reasonable doubt' can only create a Not Guilty verdict. It cannot lead to a GUILTY one.

 

[LozDa]

Whew, that's a long one, so I won't quote it.

I suspect several people reading this, at one point, had to deal with someone who was irate, and either bluffed that they were recording it, or pulled their phone out to record it.

Why?

To de-escalate the situation, and coerce the irate person into calm, rational discussion.

BBM.

This is such a weird presumption, I don't even know where to start. I have never, ever pretended to or actually recorded a situation to 'de-escalate' it.

The only occasion where perhaps it would even cross my mind would be if I were to record something secretly as proof of a situation, but then why didn't GT hand it in to assure of his innocence if that was why he recorded? It had to be collected from elsewhere.

Telling someone you're recording them to de-escalate a situation? I would think it would do anything but!

 

[CleverKnot]

1.02am: Male asks female to come here and chill and have a drink. Repeats to chill, have a drink. Male says that everything on him is good looking. Female: 'I am psycho drunk and not to test her.'

1.03.30am: Male: 'Shut up or I will make you come again. Female: 'Shut up or I will beat you up'.

1.14am: Female says she is going to 'go vampire on his *advertiser censored*'. Male says, 'Stay right there.'

1.26.51am: Male says, 'Stop that' and female says, 'Oh my god you are like a Christian.'

1.28.07am: Female says, 'Don't be a d*** to me.' ... male says, 'I don't want to like have to muscle you'.

1.29.06am: Male says, 'Just relax.' ... 'I don't like getting beaten up'.

1.36.19am: Male: 'Hey I didn't say you have to leave. I said that you have to stop beating me up.' Heated conversation.

And so on...

There are a lot of other things on that recording that point to the fact they weren't just engaging in polite missionary, that she herself was an active participant in the aggression and escalation, and that several times he used several different techniques to try to calm her down.

The progression and escalation was almost predictable. He keeps asking her to stay, and she goes back to conversation, as though she is going to stay.

It escalates into a physical hot mess. He doesn't dangle her over the balcony or threaten to kill her when he closes the door.

Had he thrown her in the hallway and she got hurt, the blamers would fault him for not locking her in a room somewhere safe where she couldn't harm herself or be harmed.

Had he locked her in a room, the blamers would say it is proof he intended to kidnap her and do bad things to her. He should have locked her somewhere more public.

Had he locked her somewhere more public and she gets hurt, then the blamers blame him for locking her there.

Somehow, in the midst of what escalated to violence, he is supposed to make the right choice.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-final-struggle-plus-happened-afterwards.html

 

[CleverKnot]

BBM.

This is such a weird presumption, I don't even know where to start. I have never, ever pretended to or actually recorded a situation to 'de-escalate' it.

The only occasion where perhaps it would even cross my mind would be if I were to record something secretly as proof of a situation, but then why didn't GT hand it in to assure of his innocence if that was why he recorded? It had to be collected from elsewhere.

Telling someone you're recording them to de-escalate a situation? I would think it would do anything but!

So you have no experience with this sort of situation then?

There is a reason YouTube is littered with people pulling their phones out with police, with irate customers, with irate people in the street, and then announce that they are recording it.

It's not a weird presumption. It happens on a regular basis, during divorces, custody battles, domestic disputes, drunken arguments, you name it.

 

[LozDa]

1.02am: Male asks female to come here and chill and have a drink. Repeats to chill, have a drink. Male says that everything on him is good looking. Female: 'I am psycho drunk and not to test her.'

1.03.30am: Male: 'Shut up or I will make you come again. Female: 'Shut up or I will beat you up'.

1.14am: Female says she is going to 'go vampire on his *advertiser censored*'. Male says, 'Stay right there.'

1.26.51am: Male says, 'Stop that' and female says, 'Oh my god you are like a Christian.'

1.28.07am: Female says, 'Don't be a d*** to me.' ... male says, 'I don't want to like have to muscle you'.

1.29.06am: Male says, 'Just relax.' ... 'I don't like getting beaten up'.

1.36.19am: Male: 'Hey I didn't say you have to leave. I said that you have to stop beating me up.' Heated conversation.

And so on...

There are a lot of other things on that recording that point to the fact they weren't just engaging in polite missionary, that she herself was an active participant in the aggression and escalation, and that several times he used several different techniques to try to calm her down.

The progression and escalation was almost predictable. He keeps asking her to stay, and she goes back to conversation, as though she is going to stay.

It escalates into a physical hot mess. He doesn't dangle her over the balcony or threaten to kill her when he closes the door.

Had he thrown her in the hallway and she got hurt, the blamers would fault him for not locking her in a room somewhere safe where she couldn't harm herself or be harmed.

Had he locked her in a room, the blamers would say it is proof he intended to kidnap her and do bad things to her. He should have locked her somewhere more public.

Had he locked her somewhere more public and she gets hurt, then the blamers blame him for locking her there.

Somehow, in the midst of what escalated to violence, he is supposed to make the right choice.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-final-struggle-plus-happened-afterwards.html

BBM 1: We can't SEE what he's doing. He knows he is recording. By your logic, I could have a gun to someone's head and as long as I'm recording audio only and saying "there there, don't cry, I'm just trying to help" then I am trying to calm the other person down.

BBM 2: You absolutely don't know that.

BBM 3: Had he locked her outside his front door and she had got hurt, then we would be looking at whatever or whoever hurt her outside his front door. As it is, we're looking at what or who hurt her when he locked her outside his balcony door instead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CleverKnot]

BBM.

This is such a weird presumption, I don't even know where to start. I have never, ever pretended to or actually recorded a situation to 'de-escalate' it.

The only occasion where perhaps it would even cross my mind would be if I were to record something secretly as proof of a situation, but then why didn't GT hand it in to assure of his innocence if that was why he recorded? It had to be collected from elsewhere.

Telling someone you're recording them to de-escalate a situation? I would think it would do anything but!

All reports I have read say the recording was taken from his phone, because police seized his phone.

He was charged a week after she died.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[BasTyra]

So you have no experience with this sort of situation then?

There is a reason YouTube is littered with people pulling their phones out with police, with irate customers, with irate people in the street, and then announce that they are recording it.

It's not a weird presumption. It happens on a regular basis, during divorces, custody battles, domestic disputes, drunken arguments, you name it.

The problem with this argument is that he announces he's recording it right before he jumps back inside, slams the balcony door and locks her out. It's not a de-escalation tactic on his part, it's simply another way to taunt her.

The argument would hold more weight if he'd told her he's recording the evening the instant she became too feisty for his liking, instead of pinning her down and gagging her or whatever the hell it was he was doing to make her speech so difficult.
By the time he told her she was too panicked, she probably didn't hear a word he said from the moment he dragged her onto the balcony and then dragged her wherever it was he dragged her to while he was out there with her.

I'm not going to deny there was some kind of play fighting going on at one stage. I think they were both guilty of that. Hell during one of the first arguments where she wants to leave but can't find her phone (probably in his pocket) she screams for him to untie her. I think they were both pushing the boundaries with one another for most of the evening but then something changed. He got real angry and controlling and scared the living hell out of her.

 

[BasTyra]

All reports I have read say the recording was taken from his phone, because police seized his phone.

He was charged a week after she died.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I thought they found the phone with the recording in his or his father's car. He didn't hand it in - which is what you'd think someone would do if they'd recorded the evening as proof they are a gentleman who does no wrong.
I also recall reading that the recording may have actually been copied from another device and they didn't have the entire thing. Not sure if that is true though.

 

[LozDa]

So you have no experience with this sort of situation then?

There is a reason YouTube is littered with people pulling their phones out with police, with irate customers, with irate people in the street, and then announce that they are recording it.

It's not a weird presumption. It happens on a regular basis, during divorces, custody battles, domestic disputes, drunken arguments, you name it.

To de-escalate? Or to use as proof of it happening?

I'm going to assume the first part of your comment is a question, because otherwise it's quite a rude presumption of my experiences. The answer is that I do have experience of a number of hostile situations that required de-escalating. Not once did I get my phone out and record to 'de-escalate'.

 

[CleverKnot]

BBM 1: We can't SEE what he's doing. He knows he is recording. By your logic, I could have a gun to someone's head and as long as I'm recording audio only and saying "there there, don't cry, I'm just trying to help" then I am trying to calm the other person down.

BBM 2: You absolutely don't know that.

BBM 3: Had he locked her outside his front door and she had got hurt, then we would be looking at whatever or whoever hurt her outside his front door. As it is, we're looking at what or who hurt her when he locked her outside his balcony door instead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Witnesses say she climbed over of her own volition. Were she dangling over the balcony, there would likely be more words than just no, and a witness or two by that point.

He didn't have a gun to her head. At no point does she deny she was beating him up, ask him what he is talking about, or accuse him of being a delusional weirdo for thinking she is doing something of a violent nature.

 

[CleverKnot]

To de-escalate? Or to use as proof of it happening?

I'm going to assume the first part of your comment is a question, because otherwise it's quite a rude presumption of my experiences. The answer is that I do have experience of a number of hostile situations that required de-escalating. Not once did I get my phone out and record to 'de-escalate'.

What did you do instead?

 

[LozDa]

What did you do instead?

In a situation where I actually feared for my life, I removed myself from the situation and called the police. I certainly wouldn't have said I was recording if I was. Who knows what rage would have unleashed if they thought I had proof of their behaviour.

 

[CleverKnot]

The problem with this argument is that he announces he's recording it right before he jumps back inside, slams the balcony door and locks her out. It's not a de-escalation tactic on his part, it's simply another way to taunt her.

The argument would hold more weight if he'd told her he's recording the evening the instant she became too feisty for his liking, instead of pinning her down and gagging her or whatever the hell it was he was doing to make her speech so difficult.
By the time he told her she was too panicked, she probably didn't hear a word he said from the moment he dragged her onto the balcony and then dragged her wherever it was he dragged her to while he was out there with her.

I'm not going to deny there was some kind of play fighting going on at one stage. I think they were both guilty of that. Hell during one of the first arguments where she wants to leave but can't find her phone (probably in his pocket) she screams for him to untie her. I think they were both pushing the boundaries with one another for most of the evening but then something changed. He got real angry and controlling and scared the living hell out of her.

Now she has to consider the optics if she breaks the glass or flings anything off the balcony. It's de-escalation 101. Welcome to the digital age where no one wants to be that fool on YouTube losing their mind, and everyone knows it.

And uses it.

 

[CleverKnot]

In a situation where I actually feared for my life, I removed myself from the situation and called the police. I certainly wouldn't have said I was recording if I was. Who knows what rage would have unleashed if they thought I had proof of their behaviour.

So it never escalated to an actual physical conflict?

 

[LozDa]

So it never escalated to an actual physical conflict?

Who said that?!

I'm not going to give you any further information as I don't feel comfortable and I don't feel that it is relevant.

It is enough for you to know that recording the situation would not have 'de-escalated' anything and I can't see a situation where it would. As I said initially, the only situation it would cross my mind to record would be a situation where I wanted proof of something occurring, or to keepsake something as a memento.

 

[TheOtherChristina]

BBM.


I’m so happy to see mental health awareness alive and well.


There has been no indication that Warriena had any mental health issues, aside from GT calling her a pscho b****, so if we could refrain from insinuating otherwise, that would be nice. And yes, I understand you weren't directly talking about Warriena, but the insinuation is very much present.

Even if she (or any woman for that matter) had BPD, this does not mean that she is automatically abusive or difficult to deal with and I wholly reject the implication of it!


<modsnip>

Thank you for saying this, LozDa! :loveyou:

This is somewhat O/T, and I hesitate to share this lest someone decide I deserve to be chucked off a balcony, but I have BPD. I'm grateful that public perception of this disease (which is closely related to PTSD and strongly linked to childhood sexual abuse) has improved leaps and bounds in my lifetime. While ignorant stereotypes about manipulation and abusiveness still abound, these damaging prejudices are being challenged and slowly dismantled, thanks in large part to the work of Marsha Linehan.

It pains me to see these outmoded stereotypes promoted here, so I felt it would be the responsible thing to challenge them.

As LozDa said, it's far from the truth to say that people with BPD are all abusers. In fact, it's more likely to be the other way around. Victims of childhood abuse are especially prone to re-victimization later in life.

While my husband and I have had our share of turbulence in our relationship (which is characteristic of interpersonal dynamics for BPD sufferers), I know he would attest that I've never been abusive to him.

There's nothing to indicate that Rrie suffered from BPD, but I am troubled by the implication that somehow, if she had, her death might have been deserved. No one deserves to die the way she did, to have her most vulnerable and private moments laid bare for the world to pick apart and judge in the service of enabling a predator.

 

[CleverKnot]

Who said that?!

I'm not going to give you any further information as I don't feel comfortable and I don't feel that it is relevant.

It is enough for you to know that recording the situation would not have 'de-escalated' anything and I can't see a situation where it would. As I said initially, the only situation it would cross my mind to record would be a situation where I wanted proof of something occurring, or to keepsake something as a memento.

You brought up your experience as an example. I'm asking for the relevant details. It was your unsolicited example.

It's nice, neat and tidy, and simple, to say one "removed themselves" from the situation. What does that look like in reality, especially during a violent altercation?

 

[Sillybilly]

This post lands at random.

I don't believe there is anything to indicate that WW suffered from mental illness. IF there is something in MSM or from LE to substantiate, link it up. If there is nothing official, please stop with that speculation that is contrary to Websleuths policy of being victim friendly.

:tyou:

 

[ninij9]

Witnesses say she climbed over of her own volition. Were she dangling over the balcony, there would likely be more words than just no, and a witness or two by that point.

He didn't have a gun to her head. At no point does she deny she was beating him up, ask him what he is talking about, or accuse him of being a delusional weirdo for thinking she is doing something of a violent nature.

She was already on the outside of the balcony. I don't thing anyone saw her climb over onto it herself. They came out once she was already there.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Bohemian]

*(s)trollololololo(s) in*

Good morning my fellow WSers. Been burning the midnight oil, I see.

I'll just leave this here...while I make my tea:

The Effects of Gaslighting in Narcissistic Victim Syndrome

*(s)trollololololo(s) out*