Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

[Megnut]

Just a thought, the children were drawing pictures to leave at FCG's father's grave that one ill-fated day....

Hadn't visited for some time, right?

How would rare visitors (FF) know which cars belonged and which didn't? I might notice news car near where I live, can't imagine being able to do where someone else lives....

Anyhow.... if something were thrown out a window that morning, perhaps it was retrieved and relocated at a later date.

Any solo trips back to town? To visit the grave, for example.

Following another missing child case, found murdered. The murdering stepmonster moved his body. Twice.

Things are not always as they seem, or they end vastly differently than they started.

Could there have been acute marital discord that morning? Related or unrelated to fostering, behavior, adoption.

Could William have tried to leave with MCG? Could he have been hit? And MCG didn't know?

Could William have had a meltdown and FCG drove off after MCG, to hand William off? Wasn't able to?

Could MCG have dallied beforw leaving for his phone meeting long enough for William to hide in his car?

None of my questions suppose or indicate what happened to William next ....

I just ask the big question. Did whatever happen that day happen on the immediate heels of the MCG leaving?

What horrible domino fell?

My questions, my opinions

JMO

 

[HilaryHormone]

Why was it written off that WT could have gone / been taken uphill into the forest ? Surely that is a possibility too.

I agree with the theory the house was a pressure cooker once FP got wind of the new accusations and LT may been angry at her FP and the situation surrounding her assault arose.

Its terrible there’s been so much man power on this yet no result

LT is a pre-teen now, no doubt with access to social media and the internet in general. She will be able to read everything, to listen to all interviews/podcasts, she will even have overheard things from FC’s and possibly from birth parents if contact has been maintained all these years. The emotional damage can’t be underestimated. She has experienced significant trauma throughout her life, being removed from the care of the people who she has regarded as her parents since early childhood contributes to that too. Add to this the ‘normal’ teen hormones and angst, and we have a very vulnerable young lady. I hope she is getting the best care and support social services have available. She and her brother absolutely deserved better from all adults and professionals in their lives.

Way back in September I did wonder whether LT was the ‘new’ witness MSM alluded to, had she remembered something from that day? I even wondered whether FGM had left a confession of sorts on her deathbed. I don’t believe either of those scenarios now. I don’t think there is any ‘new’ evidence or witness, I think it has been a last ditch effort so to speak, LE have gone back to the beginning and attempted to address any questions/inconsistencies highlighted by lawyers at the inquest.

My instinct is that William’s case has deteriorated into bitter political and professional rivalry that doesn’t actually hold him at the centre. Not truly. I fear we will never know what happened to him.

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

No doubt the FP’s are getting a lot of attention now, not just from LE but online from forums such as this.
It may come across as constant hounding, but the majority of the information known comes from the FP’s. All this information comes under direct scrutiny because it’s information that can be investigated, questioned, disregarded, open to opinion. Some have the opinion that some excerpts of information are inconsistent therefore will be questioned more.
Unfortunately, it’s the way crimes and what follows it happens.

 

[SouthAussie]

To me, that is not almost exactly the same at all.

The article referenced above refers to LE scouring the forest roads in 48 sq km of forest for something that may have been thrown from a vehicle. The latest article(s) specifies that fostermom may have thrown something from her mother's car window when FM was driving FGM's car that morning looking for W and is part of the focus of the most recent search:

Daily Mail Australia understands the Mazda hatchback, which once belonged to William's late foster grandmother, was allegedly driven by his foster mother on September 12, 2014 - the morning the three-year-old disappeared.

A NSW Police source said officers believe an object may have been thrown from the vehicle as it was driven along Batar Road at Kendall. That area is the middle of a massive forensic police search.

Daily Mail Australia has also learned the alleged unspecified object is part of the focus of forensic search currently underway for traces of William, about 700m from his foster grandmother's home.
William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by his foster mother the morning he vanished' | Daily Mail Online

I am leaning toward the DM speaking of the same thing. In 2014 & 2021.

The difference being that in 2014 they didn't provide (or perhaps know) any details.

Now, if we knew where this info was coming from ('something thrown from a car'), who said it/what inspired it, we would know for sure.

I recall us spending hours trying to work out what could have been thrown from a car, and who could have thrown it.
Some articles (in 2014) even said that it could have been something that fell of a car. So then we speculated what could have fallen off a car, and whose car it could have fallen off, whose car was potentially missing something.

imo

Did any other recent articles (2021) speak of this something thrown from a car? Other than articles that were repeating the DM's article - like the linked article in post #282 where a Nigerian MSM repeated it?
From what I have seen, other non-DM-related articles speak of 'new information' (no details) sparking the latest search.

 

[deugirtni]

I am sure you are correct Katy, the airport trip was a couple of days later and the FFC did not make the trip alone, she was accompanied by a female police officer. And a sniffer dog was on-site the first day.
Just cant see how she could have hid the body on the property for a couple of days and then somehow disposed of it on the trip to the airport while accompanied by a police officer.

I have never heard that FM was accompanied to the airport by police. I recall reading that W's sister and FM's mother had accompanied FM to the airport and back. Is there a link for police accompanying her?

ETA: to add: from drsleuth's report on the inquest Mar 25, 2019:

• FFC said she remembered the two parked cars on the way back from driving to Port Macquarie airport after picking up a relative & ran straight to the command post to tell the cops. Had FGM & william's sister with her.
  

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #39

 

[deugirtni]

To me, that is not almost exactly the same at all.

The article referenced above refers to LE scouring the forest roads in 48 sq km of forest for something that may have been thrown from a vehicle. The latest article(s) specifies that fostermom may have thrown something from her mother's car window when FM was driving FGM's car that morning looking for W and is part of the focus of the most recent search:

Daily Mail Australia understands the Mazda hatchback, which once belonged to William's late foster grandmother, was allegedly driven by his foster mother on September 12, 2014 - the morning the three-year-old disappeared.

A NSW Police source said officers believe an object may have been thrown from the vehicle as it was driven along Batar Road at Kendall. That area is the middle of a massive forensic police search.

Daily Mail Australia has also learned the alleged unspecified object is part of the focus of forensic search currently underway for traces of William, about 700m from his foster grandmother's home.
William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by his foster mother the morning he vanished' | Daily Mail Online

I am leaning toward the DM speaking of the same thing. In 2014 & 2021.

The difference being that in 2014 they didn't provide (or perhaps know) any details.

Now, if we knew where this info was coming from ('something thrown from a car'), who said it/what inspired it, we would know for sure.

I recall us spending hours trying to work out what could have been thrown from a car, and who could have thrown it.
Some articles (in 2014) even said that it could have been something that fell of a car. So then we speculated what could have fallen off a car, and whose car it could have fallen off, whose car was potentially missing something.

imo

Did any other recent articles (2021) speak of this something thrown from a car? Other than articles that were repeating the DM's article - like the linked article in post #282 where a Nigerian MSM repeated it?
From what I have seen, other non-DM articles speak of 'new information' (no details) sparking the latest search.

That is an awfully big reach for DM to have written that "A NSW Police source said officers believe an object may have been thrown from the vehicle as it was driven along Batar Road at Kendall", if there wasn't actually a [police] source that said that. In that article I quoted from in the link above, they are speaking directly about FGM's vehicle, and at the time when it was 'allegedly' driven by FM, and in a specific area where she had driven. At the time years ago when police were said to be searching 48 sq km of forest for something discarded, it seems random, like they didn't know 'where' this item was thrown from or to, nor by whom, nor by a specific vehicle. I do remember the historical posts trying to determine what had been thrown, or what had fallen off of a vehicle, etc.

ETA: edit to add.. if something is said in only one publication/reporter which claims they had a police source, it is conceivable that the DT/reporter did have a police source, which possibly other newspapers did not have. imo.

 

[Marg944]

I have never heard that FM was accompanied to the airport by police. I recall reading that W's sister and FM's mother had accompanied FM to the airport and back. Is there a link for police accompanying her?

I agree, I have never heard that the FFC was accompanied by Police to the airport.

 

[bearbear]

Two things..

First thing.. Has anyone noticed a television set inside FGM's house from the pics seen of the interior? I haven't gone back to look at old photos.. but off the top of my head, I'm not remembering seeing one?

Second thing.. I was wondering same.. about the timing in relation to the AVO and the new search. The 'assault incident', wasn't it said to have taken place a couple weeks prior to the new search(es), or am I mixing that up with the timing of when they took FGM's vehicle for forensic examination? In any case.. I thought.. IF there was some kind of an incident where now police suspected that the fosters (both of them were charged with assault and the AVO apparently applied to each of them) may have perhaps lost their cool which resulted in an assault on a minor, such an incident might give LE more clout with a judge as backup info in obtaining a search warrant or whatever, to obtain more info about something they may have been interested in, but had never had enough backup-information to satisfy a judge to issue a warrant (say for example, in actually digging up the earth on FGM's property, or spraying Luminol all under the balcony area, I'm assuming they would've required a warrant for those activities).. now these AVO and assault charges may have given LE a bit more leeway.. but I'm thinking it would have been in relation to both of the fosters, not just FM. I have been curious as to why police seem interested in pursuing only FM, rather than both fosterparents. Somehow, it seems LE must have some kind of pertinent information regarding FM only.

fgm may have had a television in her bedroom, did we get a look inside her home while she was living there or were they just the real estate photos, i cant remember seeing any?

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree, I have never heard that the FFC was accompanied by Police to the airport.

drsleuth stated that it was said at the inquest that FGM and daughter accompanied FM to the airport. See below link.
I am not sure if that means that only FGM and daughter accompanied FM. drsleuth and/or other inquest attendees may know.

A police officer did accompany the family to the beach a few days later. Presumably other police were forensically testing the house at that time (just a guess as to why they wanted the family out of the way).

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #39

 

[bearbear]

theres a tv in the lounge in this real estate photo 2016, not sure if this is fgms furniture,
sometimes estate agents use previous photos if theres not a big time lapse between sales or rentals
https://www.allhomes.com.au/48-benaroon-drive-kendall-nsw-2439

 

[SouthAussie]

theres a tv in the lounge in this real estate photo 2016, not sure if this is fgms furniture,
sometimes estate agents use previous photos if theres not a big time lapse between sales or rentals
48 Benaroon Drive, Kendall NSW 2439 | Allhomes

My guess is that the photos were taken for when the buyers (after FGM) re-sold the property. The garage floor is concreted in those photos.

 

[they'll get you]

I am sure you are correct Katy, the airport trip was a couple of days later and the FFC did not make the trip alone, she was accompanied by a female police officer. And a sniffer dog was on-site the first day.
Just cant see how she could have hid the body on the property for a couple of days and then somehow disposed of it on the trip to the airport while accompanied by a police officer.

I was not aware she was accompanied with a police officer thank you.

 

[deugirtni]

.... did he sneak in to watch cartoons on tv and found the high balcony door open?

... First thing.. Has anyone noticed a television set inside FGM's house from the pics seen of the interior? I haven't gone back to look at old photos.. but off the top of my head, I'm not remembering seeing one?

fgm may have had a television in her bedroom, did we get a look inside her home while she was living there or were they just the real estate photos, i cant remember seeing any?

It does look like FGM did have a TV in her house.. seen in this pic.. at the link provided:

48 Benaroon Drive, Kendall NSW 2439 | Allhomes

ETA: Sorry, I guess there is really no way to prove these photos were taken before W's disappearance though? Was it FGM's house at the time, or the next owner's house at the time of these photos?

Also.. sorry.. I guess I was beaten to the punch.. as I was looking up this info, I see that others have already posted photo/link/and thoughts regarding timing! At the time when W went missing, it was my understanding that the home had already been sold privately, but not yet closed.. but then that sale ended up falling through, and the house subsequently sold to someone (not sure if same party).. so I guess we can't know since it doesn't really specify as to the date those photos were taken. imo.

 

[Marg944]

drsleuth stated that it was said at the inquest that FGM and daughter accompanied FM to the airport. See below link.
I am not sure if that means that only FGM and daughter accompanied FM. drsleuth and/or other inquest attendees may know.

A police officer did accompany the family to the beach a few days later. Presumably other police were forensically testing the house at that time (just a guess as to why they wanted the family out of the way).

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #39

Thank you SouthAussie. I found a news article that makes me wonder if a Police Officer did accompany the FFFC to the airport, as the FFFC states that she "went to the command post" after the trip, as she had ?recollected seeing two cars. IMO is a Police Officer was with her, her wording would have been different? Of course, IMO.


"I was driving to Port Macquarie Airport to collect a family member, and had this flash of [realisation that] there were two cars," she said, adding she had forgotten about them in the panic of William's disappearance.

"I just went, 'There were two cars there.' My heart just sank because I thought those two cars were there for both of them," she said. "I got back to the house, I went straight down to the command post and I told the guy on duty. He gave me his phone and said search for the cars," she said.

By Sally Rawsthorne
Updated March 25, 2019 — 5.09pm


William Tyrrell's foster-mother feared her daughter would be abduction target

 

[Lemony]

Two things..

First thing.. Has anyone noticed a television set inside FGM's house from the pics seen of the interior? I haven't gone back to look at old photos.. but off the top of my head, I'm not remembering seeing one?

Second thing.. I was wondering same.. about the timing in relation to the AVO and the new search. The 'assault incident', wasn't it said to have taken place a couple weeks prior to the new search(es), or am I mixing that up with the timing of when they took FGM's vehicle for forensic examination? In any case.. I thought.. IF there was some kind of an incident where now police suspected that the fosters (both of them were charged with assault and the AVO apparently applied to each of them) may have perhaps lost their cool which resulted in an assault on a minor, such an incident might give LE more clout with a judge as backup info in obtaining a search warrant or whatever, to obtain more info about something they may have been interested in, but had never had enough backup-information to satisfy a judge to issue a warrant (say for example, in actually digging up the earth on FGM's property, or spraying Luminol all under the balcony area, I'm assuming they would've required a warrant for those activities).. now these AVO and assault charges may have given LE a bit more leeway.. but I'm thinking it would have been in relation to both of the fosters, not just FM. I have been curious as to why police seem interested in pursuing only FM, rather than both fosterparents. Somehow, it seems LE must have some kind of pertinent information regarding FM only.

The AVO timing is interesting, I can’t recall reading when the alleged assault occurred.

To co-ordinate and staff the search with specialist police squads, the SES and experts would’ve taken some major planning and the search date determined well in advance IMO. I don’t believe the alleged assault was a trigger for the searches if it only occurred recently.

Police were acting in conjunction with coronial orders, so it's possible the coroner issued a coronial investigation scene order. In these circumstances I’m not sure how warrants would factor in, whether they would be needed or not.

When may a coronial investigation scene order be made?
When may a coronial investigation scene order be made? The threshold for a coronial investigation scene order is low. A coroner may issue an order if he or she considers that a coronial investigation should be conducted in a certain place. By implication, however, a rational basis for that view would be required.

Usually an order is issued by a coroner at the request of police who require an order to enter a property and seize evidence, such as body parts or bones, for the purposes of investigating a death or suspected death.

An order may be made by telephone (s 40(1)) which is later confirmed in writing to police: s 40(6).

An order empowers the police investigator to establish a coronial investigation scene, which the police always call a crime scene whether or not a crime has been committed or is suspected.

Section 43(1)(a)–(r) and (2) outline the powers a police investigator may exercise at the coronial investigation scene. They are similar to crime scene powers under the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002. In summary, they enable the investigators to close off and control the scene, to remove persons from the scene, to perform any necessary investigations on the scene, to conduct tests, to dig, to remove parts of structures and to seize and remove body parts and other evidence.
Coronial matters

 

[LIBPOP]

Respectfully condensed.

Would you show links where the derogatory terms were used against William so I can find them please?

TIA

Here the FGM allegedly calls him a “little devil”
No Cookies | Gold Coast Bulletin

Here the FGM says he was “too hyperactive and boisterous” Inside the divided inquest into the three-year-old’s disappearance

I recall other articles where there was some annoyance at the noise.

 

[they'll get you]

I have never heard that FM was accompanied to the airport by police. I recall reading that W's sister and FM's mother had accompanied FM to the airport and back. Is there a link for police accompanying her?

ETA: to add: from drsleuth's report on the inquest Mar 25, 2019:

• FFC said she remembered the two parked cars on the way back from driving to Port Macquarie airport after picking up a relative & ran straight to the command post to tell the cops. Had FGM & william's sister with her.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #39

Yes thats the first time hearing a police officer.
I’ve searched since seeing this but nothing. I’d love to see the link as well.

 

[they'll get you]

I agree, I have never heard that the FFC was accompanied by Police to the airport.

I agree and without links and backup this is how rumours become fact.

 

[SouthAussie]

Here the FGM allegedly calls him a “little devil”
No Cookies | Gold Coast Bulletin

Here the FGM says he was “too hyperactive and boisterous” Inside the divided inquest into the three-year-old’s disappearance

I recall other articles where there was some annoyance at the noise.

Makes me wonder (again) if William did get lost in the bush/fell down a hole, and has never been found.

If he was acting hyper and boisterous that morning, could he have had more energy and inclination to wander and explore - something which previously had seemed out of character.

And it could be the reason why no absolute evidence has ever been discovered about an abduction/murder/pedo ring purchase/different kind of accident.

imo

 

[they'll get you]

Makes me wonder (again) if William did get lost in the bush/fell down a hole, and has never been found.

If he was acting hyper and boisterous that morning, could he have had more energy and inclination to wander and explore - something which previously had seemed out of character.

And it could be the reason why no absolute evidence has ever been discovered about an abduction/murder/pedo ring purchase/different kind of accident.

imo

We've often wondered if this was the case SA. William being a suburban child with fences and boundaries finding himself suddenly with no limitations running across the road and into the bush but the dogs didn’t find his dna beyond the driveway.


There’s a new house built opposite so unfortunately if that was the case no trace of William will ever be found after trees being felled and rubble removed.