Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

[SouthAussie]

You must have more confidence than I….if I were charged with assaulting kids and lying and so forth I’d be very worried

Agree with the political issue….I’d almost wonder if certain things are swept aside to deflect from inept govt agencies (such as FAC’s for example) as it’s bad press for the politicians. Kinda similar to the qld health lab making a meal out of the Shandee Blackburn case dna samples imo

No, I am not confident at all. I have seen a few 'witchhunts' during the 7½ years of this case. Leads and theories that were followed up publicly in a very strong way. Involving people who had other charges against them.

The police have gone so hard at a good handful of people that they have incurred a couple of lawsuits (linked earlier), so far.

At this point in time, I don't think anyone knows for sure what happened to William. Including the police.

For all we know, William could be lost and perished in a weird spot in the bush.
Or he could be alive, having been abducted and moved on ... 300km or more away.
Or he could have been the victim of an accident - like a fall, or being run over. And then hidden.
Or he could have been abducted, assaulted, and murdered shortly after, then placed/buried somewhere in those thick forests.

I do not think he was murdered by any of his parents.

Not confident at all.

 

[Lemony]

Was it 'false and misleading' ? Or was it maybe an inconsistency or a mistake? He testified 8 yrs later. Could he have made a misstatement?

Good question. I guess police will need to prove that the misleading testimony was given deliberately. It’s going to be interesting to see what comes of it given the fact that FD has plead not guilty and is prepared to fight the charges.

IMO it’s very obvious that police have been doing everything in their power to apply extreme pressure to the fosters, that on top of the extensive (and expensive!) searches, and still no charges over William’s disappearance. I’m beginning to wonder if police have anything significant at all, or whether this direction of investigation was based on some misguided information.

 

[Couldbe]

I have never read of any evidence that William’s Foster Grandmother had dementia and was not capable of giving a clear Statement to LE regarding what she knew about William’s disappearance.

Because she wasn’t called to be cross-examined at the Inquest, maybe she was interviewed, at this same time, behind closed doors. If this did occur, then there maybe information that she supplied, to which we are not privy, that has led to further searching and questioning by LE with regard to the validity of information previously supplied by the Foster Parents.

Just saying……..

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

But they haven't been proven yet have they? So still alleged, unless I've missed something.

It’ll come. The FF has been charged and he’s going to court over it against probably the biggest crime department in the state. Pretty silly if they were to do so without proof. Surely this case has had enough stuff ups to go through any more of them.

Hopefully it’s only a small matter of time till what happen to that poor little boy comes out

 

[Serenanicole]

I wonder what it is that the foster father has said that has been discredited?
Is it his version that he has had from the beginning or has there been something new that has come about from a different line of questioning?

 

[Jaded325594]

It's crazy that we only know about this because a surpression order was varied this week. I think there is SO much more we aren't allowed to know right now. For all we know FFC could be facing the same charges.

Any speculation on what he could have "allegedly" lied about?

 

[SouthAussie]

I have never read of any evidence that William’s Foster Grandmother had dementia and was not capable of giving a clear Statement to LE regarding what she knew about William’s disappearance.

Because she wasn’t called to be cross-examined at the Inquest, maybe she was interviewed, at this same time, behind closed doors. If this did occur, then there maybe information that she supplied, to which we are not privy, that has led to further searching and questioning by LE with regard to the validity of information previously supplied by the Foster Parents.

Just saying……..

Well, if that happened the Coroner sure took her time to produce an order for the recent search. The inquest concluded on 8th Oct 2020.

imo

It will very interesting to read the Coronial Findings, to see what has happened in the last 1½ years in this case.

 

[Serenanicole]

What possible untruths could allegedly be proven?
Is it the timeline? Is the alleged evidence in the time code of the camera?
Was someone else interviewed by the NSW crime commission in relation to the timeline? What about the person he had a video conference with?

 

[centred]

Well, if that happened the Coroner sure took her time to produce an order for the recent search. The inquest concluded on 8th Oct 2020.

imo


Oh I didn't realize The inquest had concluded ? What and where can i read the findings ?

 

[SouthAussie]

Oh I didn't realize The inquest had concluded ? What and where can i read the findings?

The inquest closed on Thursday and Deputy State Coroner Grahame will review more than 18 months of evidence before handing down her findings mid-way through next year.
The emotional gift that left William Tyrrell's inquest in tears
Sat 10 Oct 2020

And as she has not yet released her findings, your guess is as good as mine as to where you can read them.

 

[centred]

It's crazy that we only know about this because a surpression order was varied this week. I think there is SO much more we aren't allowed to know right now. For all we know FFC could be facing the same charges.

Any speculation on what he could have "allegedly" lied about?

I couldn't even begin to speculate on this , it may not even relate to the evidence in the Coroners court , it may well be a separate investigation by a " hearing' by the Commission itself that he was compelled to answer questions .

 

[centred]

The inquest closed on Thursday and Deputy State Coroner Grahame will review more than 18 months of evidence before handing down her findings mid-way through next year.
The emotional gift that left William Tyrrell's inquest in tears
Sat 10 Oct 2020

And as she has not yet released her findings, your guess is as good as mine as to where you can read them.

Oh Ok when you used the word concluded i wrongly assumed it was done and dusted .

I don't know why i was under the impression the findings were still open for any new evidence of further investigation .

So is this incorrect ?

 

[SouthAussie]

Oh Ok when you used the word concluded i wrongly assumed it was done and dusted .

I don't know why i was under the impression the findings were still open for any new evidence of further investigation .

So is this incorrect ?

What I think is happening is that the Coroner was tying up loose ends with this latest search.

Then her findings will be concluded and a report will be released.

I don't think there any plans for a resumption of the inquest. Not that I have heard about, anyway.
I have only read that the police are preparing a brief for her, on what they have done more recently.

imo

 

[centred]

His slightly older sister was the last person to see the boy in the Spider-Man suit — one minute they were playing "tigers" on the lawn of their foster grandmother's home in Kendall on the NSW Mid-North Coast, the next he was gone.

She cannot remember what happened and now, aged 10, she no longer remembers him at all.

"The photobooks are his memories — they show you the innocence and love his sister and him have for each other," their foster mother told the NSW Coroner's Court.

I was really surprised by this statement that "she no longer remembers him at all "

Why does she not remember him at all ? Surely she has photos and he is still spoken of by others around her ?

 

[Awakening]

Well, if that happened the Coroner sure took her time to produce an order for the recent search. The inquest concluded on 8th Oct 2020.

imo

It will very interesting to read the Coronial Findings, to see what has happened in the last 1½ years in this case.

Do we know why the Coroners findings haven't been published? Does it normally take awhile?

I googled it

"The reality is that a coronial investigation is both complex and lengthy. Whilst some cases may be resolved within a few months, the majority of cases take considerably longer. An investigation often takes up to 12 months and in rare instances, even longer."

Overview of the Coronial process

 

[centred]

Katy's original point or question was - were the 'lies' a miss-statement? It's a good question. At this point the FF is charged with lying but it needs to be proven that he intended to lie as opposed to having an incorrect recollection or made a mistake. He has pled not guilty and will defend the charges.

I cannot honestly say if he made a mis statement , my comment was that it would be very rare to be criminally charged for giving a mis statement to a hearing , which could easily be corrected if so , The allegations are said to be 2 untruths that LE say they can prove .

So yes a day in court remains to be seen .

 

[JBowie]

NSW EVIDENCE ACT 1995 - SECT 191
Agreements as to facts
191 Agreements as to facts


(1) In this section--

"agreed fact" means a fact that the parties to a proceeding have agreed is not, for the purposes of the proceeding, to be disputed.

(2) In a proceeding--

(a) evidence is not required to prove the existence of an agreed fact, and

(b) evidence may not be adduced to contradict or qualify an agreed fact,

unless the court gives leave.

(3) Subsection (2) does not apply unless the agreed fact--

(a) is stated in an agreement in writing signed by the parties or by Australian legal practitioners, legal counsel or prosecutors representing the parties and adduced in evidence in the proceeding, or

(b) with the leave of the court, is stated by a party before the court with the agreement of all other parties.

EVIDENCE ACT 1995 - SECT 191 Agreements as to facts

 

[Warshawski]

Oh Ok when you used the word concluded i wrongly assumed it was done and dusted .

I don't know why i was under the impression the findings were still open for any new evidence of further investigation .

So is this incorrect ?

still ongoing imo..

Detectives conduct interviews, continue investigation into William Tyrrell's disappearance

A spokesperson from the NSW Coroners Court has said that no comment will be given in relation to the ongoing coronial investigation into the disappearance and suspected death of William Tyrrell.

"No date has been set down for the resumption of the inquest," the spokesperson said.

 

[Warshawski]

Katy's original point or question was - were the 'lies' a miss-statement? It's a good question. At this point the FF is charged with lying but it needs to be proven that he intended to lie as opposed to having an incorrect recollection or made a mistake. He has pled not guilty and will defend the charges.

It’s just my very basic impression that charges wouldn’t be laid over something that could be a simple mistake or memory lapse.

I find the timeline interesting:

FMFC was called in to the NSW CC & questioned for 2 hours last November 11,
just a few days later the extensive re-search of the area around his mother-in-laws former home started
on 2nd day of said search, FFFC was identified as the POI in William’s disappearance
on 17 Nov both FFC were charged with assault of a child, not William
in January this year FMFC was charged with ‘knowingly provide false and misleading evidence'.
in Feb this year FFFC was again charged with assault of a child, not William

(William Tyrrell's foster father charged by Unsolved Homicide squad detectives | Daily Mail Online)

I guess if his ‘not guilty’ pleas are upheld, that will mean that at least there will be 2 bits of information that are proven to be Fact - and IMO it will be refreshing to have something ‘real’ to go on !

 

[JBowie]

I cannot honestly say if he made a mis statement , my comment was that it would be very rare to be criminally charged for giving a mis statement to a hearing , which could easily be corrected if so , The allegations are said to be 2 untruths that LE say they can prove .

I think if I were being questioned by a the Crime Commission -- after having been warned about the consequences of lying under oath or affirmation -- and I could not clearly recall the specifics relating to a question then, rather than making a best guess, I'd reply that I honestly cannot clearly recall.

In Royal Commissions, as we have seen time and again, Counsel Assisting often already knows the answers to questions put to witnesses and, if they tell porkies, Counsel will then proceed to discredit them by playing video or audio that directly contradicts what the witness has said under oath, in which event the witness is immediately aware that they are now skating on very thin ice and potentially looking at a perjury charge, if not more.

I don't know if the Crime Commission works in a similar 'immediate gotcha' manner when 'interviewing' people who, from hard evidence in its possession, it considers are lying, or if it waits until after their testimony to refer them to police.

On the other hand, if the session before the Crime Commission is a 'third degree under a burning light with a barrage of accusatory type questions' scenario then I guess it is up to police to determine if answers given contravene the facts as the police 'know' them.

It will be interesting indeed to learn what it is that he is accused of not being truthful about. I doubt that it will be something trivial that could be easily dismissed as a slip of the memory.