Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

[Awakening]

Unrelated (as far as I know) to this case, but this news article published today about a pedophile ring being busted in Sydney's north shore is the type of case that NSW Crime Commission would be involved in. They handle the big crimes and usually crimes involving more than one perpetrator.

Teacher at prestigious Sydney private school is arrested for alleged role in online child abuse ring | Daily Mail Online

 

[inkpink]

I don't think it would be about the AVO if NSW crime commission are involved.

It's possible it's related to evidence he gave in the coroners court.

It's also possible it's related to something else entirely, perhaps financial fraud ot real estate fraud (there was a case about real estate fraud recently will see if I can find it).

And this charge was initially suppressed at the request of FF's lawyer. And I know the fosters understandably want to protect themselves from crazies but it seems all these suppression orders are less about protecting their welfare and the foster childs welfare and more about saving face, imo.

Regardless of my opinion, it seems the NSW police are intent on going after them. What with this charge, 2 assault charges, AVO, naming FM as a POI to the media. Whether that's justified because the police have evidence that supports their involvement or whether there's some sort of personal vendetta only time will tell I guess.

Meanwhile poor William remains missing.

I agree, it's entirely possible that it has to do with real estate but it's also possible that it's the WT case.

Upthread someone posted from an article where a strike force rosann member that stated 'he was lying about something that they can prove'

I doubt someone from the strikeforce team would be commenting about a real estate investigation....

 

[Awakening]

Found that Sydney real estate fraud case I was thinking of. This was in September 2021.

Real estate agents fined over trust account issues

 

[Awakening]

I agree, it's entirely possible that it has to do with real estate but it's also possible that it's the WT case.

Upthread someone posted from an article where a strike force rosann member that stated 'he was lying about something that they can prove'

I doubt someone from the strikeforce team would be commenting about a real estate investigation....

Yes good point. If WT strike force are commenting on this "perjury" charge, then it's a reasonable conclusion it's directly related to WT.

I mention financial and real estate fraud because even though the fosters cannot be identified, the media often mentions their financial wealth and their alleged interest in real estate, buying and selling properties and that part of their reasons for going to Kendall that fateful weekend was to assist FGM with the recent sale of her house due to their "real estate experience". I can't find an article to that now as I have a dog begging to be walked so will have to say IMO they have some sort of personal experience in real estate.

 

[bfew]

The Crime Commission

When referring to any of the NSW Crime Commission, I recommend everyone refer to it as the "NSW Crime Commission", and not "The Crime Commission", as other States of Australia have their own Crime Commissions, and at a Federal Level, pre 1 July 2016, there used to be an "Australia Crime Commission (ACC) which was merged with CrimTrac to become the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission (ACIC).
Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission - Wikipedia

Please don't assume that all the different State Crime Commissions have the same scope of operations, or come under the control of the Federal one (ACIC).

SouthAussie, are you 100% sure you were not quoting from one of the other Australian current and former Crime Commission like bodies when it comes to the scope of its activities?

 

[bfew]

The fearsome NSW Crime Commission works alongside NSW Police to investigate homicides and other serious offences and has the power to compel people to give evidence. The commission was contacted for comment on Wednesday.

Some of you appear to have missed the above quote from the 5:04pm AEST Sydney Morning Herald article yesterday.
One of the journalists whose name is attributed to that article is a Crime Reporter.

William Tyrrell’s foster father charged with giving false or misleading evidence
'The fearsome NSW Crime Commission works alongside NSW Police to investigate homicides and other serious offences and has the power to compel people to give evidence. The commission was contacted for comment on Wednesday.'

 

[JBowie]

I recall seeing a post here recently saying that the foster grandmother had also been mentioned somewhere as a POI, but the poster could not recall the source of that.

Was it maybe this article?

Late last year it was revealed police had been treating the foster mother and deceased foster grandmother as persons of interest in William’s disappearance eight years earlier.

William Tyrrell’s foster father hit with fresh charges

 

[bfew]

I would think that WT's case would be regarded as a major crime given that the homicide squad are the lead investigators.

Apart from
State Crime Command - NSW Police Public Site
'The State Crime Command delivers professional policing services to the community of NSW through disrupting, preventing and responding to serious and organised crime. Led by the Commander, State Crime Command and the Director, Crime Operations the command consists of eight specialist squads each representing a head of discipline for major crime types. '

'State Crime Command Squads
Drug and Firearms Squad
Criminal Groups Squad
Organised Crime Squad
Cybercrime Squad
Homicide Squad
Child Abuse and Sex Crimes Squad
Financial Crimes Squad
Robbery and Serious Crime Squad'

'Homicide Squad
The Homicide Squad leads and drives the NSW Police Force response to homicide and coronial investigations at all levels. This is achieved through the development of tactical intelligence products, policy advice and the provision of good practice and specialist investigative service for major criminal investigations including murder, suspicious deaths, coronial investigations and critical incidents.'

facts that I consider back up the WT case being classified as a major crime include:

- AUD $1m reward
- Homicide squad as lead investigators
- Sex Crimes squad involved
- Possible active paedophile ring involvement investigations
- 2 Strike Forces involved
- Rosann, run by the Homicide Squad
- Rosann Two, which provides assistance from workers in the Armed Holdup, Sex Crimes and Fraud Squads. (assistance to the case/Strike Force Rosann)
- involves dozens of Police analysts and investigators
- 690 POI (as at 2016)
- 2800 reports to Crime Stoppers from members of the public providing information (as at 2016)
- an additional 196 reports directly to the strike force (as at 2016)
- 1078 reported sightings of WT (as at 2016)
- 11,000 pieces of information related to the case (as at 2016)
- 628 exhibits (as at 2016)
+ 2018 "large-scale forensic search" in bushland around Kendall (100's of police and community members)
+ 2021 search for remains and related evidence (30 Police)
+ the extent of the current incomplete Coronial Inquiry (adjourned)
+ so many resources and media reporting, and public interest in the case recently ongoing and particularly recently, for a case that is nearly 8 years old.

 

[bearbear]

William Tyrrell's foster father is 'lying about something we can prove' - detectives allege - as he's charged with giving false or misleading evidence to secretive Crime Commission

• William Tyrrell's foster father has been charged with lying to Crime Commission
• 54-year-old allegedly gave 'misleading' information to crime-fighting body
• Tyrrell strike force police now say he is 'lying about something we can prove'
• Foster father pleaded not guilty to two charges of giving false information
• Crime Commission is state's top intelligence agency combatting serious crime

William Tyrrell cop alleges missing toddler's foster father is 'lying about something we can prove' | Daily Mail Online

 

[Jaded325594]

Apart from
State Crime Command - NSW Police Public Site
'The State Crime Command delivers professional policing services to the community of NSW through disrupting, preventing and responding to serious and organised crime. Led by the Commander, State Crime Command and the Director, Crime Operations the command consists of eight specialist squads each representing a head of discipline for major crime types. '

'State Crime Command Squads
Drug and Firearms Squad
Criminal Groups Squad
Organised Crime Squad
Cybercrime Squad
Homicide Squad
Child Abuse and Sex Crimes Squad
Financial Crimes Squad
Robbery and Serious Crime Squad'

'Homicide Squad
The Homicide Squad leads and drives the NSW Police Force response to homicide and coronial investigations at all levels. This is achieved through the development of tactical intelligence products, policy advice and the provision of good practice and specialist investigative service for major criminal investigations including murder, suspicious deaths, coronial investigations and critical incidents.'

facts that I consider back up the WT case being classified as a major crime include:

- AUD $1m reward
- Homicide squad as lead investigators
- Sex Crimes squad involved
- Possible active paedophile ring involvement investigations
- 2 Strike Forces involved
- Rosann, run by the Homicide Squad
- Rosann Two, which provides assistance from workers in the Armed Holdup, Sex Crimes and Fraud Squads. (assistance to the case/Strike Force Rosann)
- involves dozens of Police analysts and investigators
- 690 POI (as at 2016)
- 2800 reports to Crime Stoppers from members of the public providing information (as at 2016)
- an additional 196 reports directly to the strike force (as at 2016)
- 1078 reported sightings of WT (as at 2016)
- 11,000 pieces of information related to the case (as at 2016)
- 628 exhibits (as at 2016)
+ 2018 "large-scale forensic search" in bushland around Kendall (100's of police and community members)
+ 2021 search for remains and related evidence (30 Police)
+ the extent of the current incomplete Coronial Inquiry (adjourned)
+ so many resources and media reporting, and public interest in the case recently ongoing and particularly recently, for a case that is nearly 8 years old.

The Homicide Squad leads and drives the NSW Police Force response to homicide and coronial investigations at all levels

Bingo.

 

[SouthAussie]

SouthAussie, are you 100% sure you were not quoting from one of the other Australian current and former Crime Commission like bodies when it comes to the scope of its activities?

Yes, I am 100% sure.
Most of us here try to source our information from the correct state, where possible.


Offences that we investigate include homicide, terrorism, serious drug offences (supply, manufacture, and importation) and, associated financial and money laundering activity.
Criminal Investigations — NSW Crime Commission

The Commission sues people in the NSW Supreme Court to recover proceeds of crime that they have either derived from their own criminal activity or other people’s crimes.
Financial Investigations — NSW Crime Commission

 

[inkpink]

Yes, I am 100% sure.
Most of us here try to source our information from the correct state, where possible.


Offences that we investigate include homicide, terrorism, serious drug offences (supply, manufacture, and importation) and, associated financial and money laundering activity.
Criminal Investigations — NSW Crime Commission

The Commission sues people in the NSW Supreme Court to recover proceeds of crime that they have either derived from their own criminal activity or other people’s crimes.
Financial Investigations — NSW Crime Commission

I believe the WT case is being treated as a homicide, hence the homicide squad being the lead investigators.

The NSW Crime Commission as per your post deals with homicide.

 

[SouthAussie]

One hearbreaking case that still makes me outraged is that of Leigh Leigh. There was a NSW Crime Commission investigation into this titled 'Investigation into the circumstances surrounding the murder of Leigh Leigh on 3 November 1989 and other offences by the New South Wales Crime Commission'

This was not organised crime.

"The [Leigh Leigh's] murder investigation was reviewed by the New South Wales Crime Commission in 1996, and by the Police Integrity Commission in 1998, with the latter recommending the dismissal of the detective in charge of the investigation."

[The reason that the investigation was reviewed by the Crime Commission is because] .... "The investigation of Leigh's murder proved controversial, however, as several people who admitted to various crimes, including assaulting Leigh, were never charged; nor was anyone ever charged with her sexual assault. Webster's confession did not match the forensic evidence."

Murder of Leigh Leigh - Wikipedia


We haven't heard of the NSW Crime Commission reviewing William's case. I guess anything is possible, but I think that a case like this would fall outside of the usual scope of the commission. imo

And with all of the 'leaks' and public police statements I would have thought that we would already know if the NSW Crime Commission was reviewing William's case.

 

[inkpink]

"The [Leigh Leigh's] murder investigation was reviewed by the New South Wales Crime Commission in 1996, and by the Police Integrity Commission in 1998, with the latter recommending the dismissal of the detective in charge of the investigation."

[The reason that the investigation was reviewed by the Crime Commission is because] .... "The investigation of Leigh's murder proved controversial, however, as several people who admitted to various crimes, including assaulting Leigh, were never charged; nor was anyone ever charged with her sexual assault. Webster's confession did not match the forensic evidence."

Murder of Leigh Leigh - Wikipedia


We haven't heard of the NSW Crime Commission reviewing William's case. I guess it is possible.
But with all of the 'leaks' and public police statements I would have thought that we would already know if the NSW Crime Commission was reviewing William's case.

Leigh Leigh was murdered in 1989, the NSW Crime Commission investigated the actual murder in 1996, some 7 years later because the investigation proved controversial.

I think the WT investigation has also proven controversial.

When I have heard about crime commissions holding investigations, it's always been after the fact. I think they are generally quite secretive...

I can't think of a specific case at the moment because I would have to go through all the messy files in my mind but I'll have a bit of a think, there's one on the tip of my tongue....

 

[SouthAussie]

Leigh Leigh was murdered in 1989, the NSW Crime Commission investigated the actual murder in 1996, some 7 years later because the investigation proved controversial.

I think the WT investigation has also proven controversial.

When I have heard about crime commissions holding investigations, it's always been after the fact. I think they are generally quite secretive...

I can't think of a specific case at the moment because I would have to go through all the messy files in my mind but I'll have a bit of a think, there's one on the tip of my tongue....

Yes. I am familiar with the Crime Commission ... I followed a couple of cases where they had Star Chamber sessions about organised (biker) crimes.

The Star Chamber hearings are held in privacy. With the same conditions as an inquest - witnesses are compelled to speak, with certain protections against self-incrimination.

 

[sleepinoz]

I believe the WT case is being treated as a murder and murder is a major crime.

One hearbreaking case that still makes me outraged is that of Leigh Leigh. There was a NSW Crime Commission investigation into this titled 'Investigation into the circumstances surrounding the murder of Leigh Leigh on 3 November 1989 and other offences by the New South Wales Crime Commission'

This was not organised crime.

No it wasn't organised crime - but - Webster pleaded guilty to Leigh's murder on 24 October 1990. The NSW Crime Commission investigation wasn't announced until October 1996. IMO they were charged to Investigate the Police in this instance, and that is the difference.

Murder of Leigh Leigh - Wikipedia

 

[JBowie]

People -- especially crims -- called before the NSW Crime Commission believe that they are immune from prosecution if they give self-incriminating evidence. However, there is a loophole. See the bit that I have underlined below:

Can my answers at the NSW Crime Commission be used against me?

In short, direct use is prohibited, but derivative use is not in specific circumstances. Section 35A(3) states that ‘evidence obtained pursuant to leave granted for the purposes of this section cannot be used against the person in any civil or criminal proceeding (other than a proceeding for an offence against this Act or an offence relating to the falsity of evidence given by the witness) or in any disciplinary proceeding, but is not inadmissible as against other persons.’

Derivative evidence is not admissible against you if it was derived from evidence following a grant of leave under section 35A.

However, the rule against derivative evidence does not apply if that same evidence could have been obtained without your testimony at the Crime Commission.

What happens if I am summoned to attend the NSW Crime Commission? | NGM Lawyers

 

[sleepinoz]

Apart from
State Crime Command - NSW Police Public Site
'The State Crime Command delivers professional policing services to the community of NSW through disrupting, preventing and responding to serious and organised crime. Led by the Commander, State Crime Command and the Director, Crime Operations the command consists of eight specialist squads each representing a head of discipline for major crime types. '

'State Crime Command Squads
Drug and Firearms Squad
Criminal Groups Squad
Organised Crime Squad
Cybercrime Squad
Homicide Squad
Child Abuse and Sex Crimes Squad
Financial Crimes Squad
Robbery and Serious Crime Squad'

'Homicide Squad
The Homicide Squad leads and drives the NSW Police Force response to homicide and coronial investigations at all levels. This is achieved through the development of tactical intelligence products, policy advice and the provision of good practice and specialist investigative service for major criminal investigations including murder, suspicious deaths, coronial investigations and critical incidents.'

facts that I consider back up the WT case being classified as a major crime include:

- AUD $1m reward
- Homicide squad as lead investigators
- Sex Crimes squad involved
- Possible active paedophile ring involvement investigations
- 2 Strike Forces involved
- Rosann, run by the Homicide Squad
- Rosann Two, which provides assistance from workers in the Armed Holdup, Sex Crimes and Fraud Squads. (assistance to the case/Strike Force Rosann)
- involves dozens of Police analysts and investigators
- 690 POI (as at 2016)
- 2800 reports to Crime Stoppers from members of the public providing information (as at 2016)
- an additional 196 reports directly to the strike force (as at 2016)
- 1078 reported sightings of WT (as at 2016)
- 11,000 pieces of information related to the case (as at 2016)
- 628 exhibits (as at 2016)
+ 2018 "large-scale forensic search" in bushland around Kendall (100's of police and community members)
+ 2021 search for remains and related evidence (30 Police)
+ the extent of the current incomplete Coronial Inquiry (adjourned)
+ so many resources and media reporting, and public interest in the case recently ongoing and particularly recently, for a case that is nearly 8 years old.

NSW Police Crime Command is different to NSW Crime Commission.

Home — NSW Crime Commission

 

[bfew]

NSW Police Crime Command is different to NSW Crime Commission.

I know that.
I wasn't suggesting they were one and the same.
My post was to assist define what NSW Police and the NSW Crime Commission might consider/categorise as a "major crime".

 

[inkpink]

No it wasn't organised crime - but - Webster pleaded guilty to Leigh's murder on 24 October 1990. The NSW Crime Commission investigation wasn't announced until October 1996. IMO they were charged to Investigate the Police in this instance, and that is the difference.

Murder of Leigh Leigh - Wikipedia

From your link:

In October 1996, Police Minister Paul Whelan made an announcement in the Parliament of New South Wales, stating that the murder would be reviewed by the New South Wales Crime Commission. Acknowledging that nobody had ever been charged with Leigh's sexual assault, Whelan stated the upcoming review was "our one opportunity to right the terrible wrongs that occurred on the night that Leigh died".[11]

It was set up to reinvestigate the case. Also the title of the investigation was 'Investigation into the circumstances surrounding the murder of Leigh Leigh on 3 November 1989 and other offences by the New South Wales Crime Commission'

'Commission released one of their two reports on the matter; their second unpublished report was handed over to the Police Integrity Commission (PIC) for investigation.[13]: 15 '

The NSW Crime Commission investigation uncovered some issues with police conduct, hence the additional report that was handed to the Police Integrity Commission.