Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

[Estelle]

I have never had a problem with the ‘surprise’ as this is something I have done before and many others that I know. I guess it’s being spontaneous, and it’s her mother who probably didn’t mind.
I have always kept an open mind about this case, but from as early as I knew the movements of the foster father that day, I felt it was at the very least uncanny. That he leaves for his VC, William disappears pretty much in that gap of time, he returns not long after. That’s the part for me that I come back to.

Yes I have always found that strange too.

 

[Serenanicole]

I know there was a working theory sparking the recent search that he may have fallen from the balcony accidentally, and that the death was covered up.
Can you imagine the trauma of finding that your child has fallen from a two story house onto the concrete? Or worse watching it happen before you had time to stop it. You would scream form the very depths of your gut. You would be in a state of shock. You would not have been able to strategise a plan to hide the body in the small time frame we are talking about.

 

[Estelle]

I know there was a working theory sparking the recent search that he may have fallen from the balcony accidentally, and that the death was covered up.
Can you imagine the trauma of finding that your child has fallen from a two story house onto the concrete? Or worse watching it happen before you had time to stop it. You would scream form the very depths of your gut. You would be in a state of shock. You would not have been able to strategise a plan to hide the body in the small time frame we are talking about.

That's why the time the last photo was taken is relevant to me.

 

[Serenanicole]

So there are two untruths that the foster father has allegedly told to the NSW crime commission. The foster mother his facing two charges of alleged assault on a child (not William).

 

[Serenanicole]

That's why the time the last photo was taken is relevant to me.

Yes the photo has always been of interest to me. I wonder if they have ever analysed the image in terms of light. Morning light is very different to afternoon light. It does not look like morning light.

 

[Serenanicole]

If William did die, and he died as a result of an accident, I believe he died a lot earlier in time than he was alleged to have disappeared. It pains me to think about him and the likelihood he has passed. But from an objective point of view if an accident was a working theory, I cant imagine someone that loved William as it appears they truly did, could just think so quickly to hide his body, what’s more that ‘she’ (as the person of interest) could do that within the time that her husband was away for a VC. Thats just ludicrous IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes the photo has always been of interest to me. I wonder if they have ever analysed the image in terms of light. Morning light is very different to afternoon light. It does not look like morning light.

One of our members (richieswan) did some calculations re: the photos and the light.

Richie's calculations place the photos as being taken between 9 and 10am that morning.

Richie's calculations are posted in this link:
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #31

If a knowledgeable WS member was able to calculate this, I feel pretty sure that the police would have done similar.

The police had the added advantage of being at the home for about 10 days or so (command centre parked outside), so they could actually stand/sit/crouch on that back deck at the relevant times and see how the shadows lay.
.

 

[Estelle]

One of our members (richieswan) did some calculations re: the photos and the light.

Richie's calculations place the photos as being taken between 9 and 10am that morning.

Richie's calculations are posted in this link:
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #31

If a knowledgeable WS member was able to calculate this, I feel pretty sure that the police would have done similar.

The police had the added advantage of being at the home for about 10 days or so (command centre parked outside), so they could actually stand/sit/crouch on that back deck at the relevant times and see how the shadows lay.
.

This is a question I haven't seen posed yet. If a person can change the time of day on a camera, surely they can also change the date it was taken. In other words, could this Spider Man photo have been taken on a previous but recent visit to FFGM which the parents have never disclosed? The gap between visits to FFGM since her husband died in January and she was in hospital to September seem too far apart for a caring daughter and her family IMO.

How do I change the date on my camera?

Changing the Date and Time

1. Turn the camera on.
2. Press the [MENU] button and choose the [Set Up] [ ] tab.
3. Press the [ ] , [ ] buttons to choose [Date/Time], and then press the [ ] button.
4. Set the [Date/Time].

 

[bearbear]

The foster father testified for up to two hours after being secretly summonsed to appear at the NSWCC Surry Hills headquarters on November 11.

This was four days before NSW Police launched a surprise 'high intensity' search of bushland around 800m from the house where William had been staying with his foster parents when he vanished seven years ago.
William Tyrrell's foster father charged by Unsolved Homicide squad detectives | Daily Mail Online

 

[Blues Clues]

In September 2019 the Coroner ordered an urgent forensic examination of the last photos taken. Presumably that was completed soon afterwards.
In November 2021 we are told FFC is being looked at as a person of interest, and perhaps also FGM - not the MFC. Logically that would suggest the time on the photo is no longer being questioned as, if it were, MFC would also be a person of interest imo

Probe ordered into William Tyrrell’s last photograph (theaustralian.com.au)

 

[SouthAussie]

This is a question I haven't seen posed yet. If a person can change the time of day on a camera, surely they can also change the date it was taken. In other words, could this Spider Man photo have been taken on a previous but recent visit to FFGM which the parents have never disclosed?

If you look at the tool that richie used to calculate the angle of the sun, you will see that the angle changes according to the date/time of year.

Richie set the tool for that exact day, and it lined up as calculated. Between 9am and 10am on 12th Sept 2014.

 

[Serenanicole]

Thank you South Aussie for your reply.
I will go back and read over that section.
I note that Richie is not a verified member- are you able to recall what Richies qualifications are, and what technical knowledge he has to make those calculations by any chance? It may be going back a bit far and so many posts since then! Thank you

 

[Awakening]

If person/s known or unknown to William murdered him that morning and disposed of the body promptly, then it appears it's an area with lots of hiding spots.

I'm not familiar with the area so looking at google maps. There is Dooragan National Park and Queens Lake amongst many others.

Maybe someone with more knowledge of the area/or case could tell us if these areas were searched?

My understanding was initially they searched close to the house assuming William had wandered off.

I'm not familiar with what technology we might have. I know @PingTheRouter knew a lot about satellite imagery that the government might have in the CS case.

I'm not sure if the average citizen can scour old google earth images for anything suspicious around that time? I remember everyday people looking for MH370.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thank you South Aussie for your reply.
I will go back and read over that section.
I note that Richie is not a verified member- are you able to recall what Richies qualifications are, and what technical knowledge he has to make those calculations by any chance? It may be going back a bit far and so many posts since then! Thank you

Richie used the tool that was linked, and the photos, and the home layout - as described in the post.

We are not supposed to discuss other members.

My point being, we can say "what about this", "what about that", and I am trying to show intelligent posts where some matters have been able to be determined to a good degree of accuracy.
It is up to individuals to decide if they find the information credible. It is always better to look at the evidence for what it is, and not try to make something else out of it. imo

 

[Estelle]

Richie used the tool that was linked, and the photos, and the home layout - as described in the post.

We are not supposed to discuss other members.

My point being, we can say "what about this", "what about that", and I am trying to show intelligent posts where some matters have been able to be determined to a good degree of accuracy.
It is up to individuals to decide if they find the information credible. It is always better to look at the evidence for what it is, and not try to make something else out of it. imo

IMO it's good to have an open mind and look at all possibilities. Until an Expert Witness gives us the results of his research on the last photo, I will remain open.

 

[JBowie]

Until an Expert Witness gives us the results of his research on the last photo, I will remain open.

The NSW Coroner ordered such an investigation in late August 2019. I don't know if the result of that investigation has been published:

The Australian understands an expert in photographic metadata has been called in after NSW police admitted to confusion as to when the widely circulated image was taken. The photograph is a crucial piece of evidence, because it provides what is known as “proof of life” for William on the day of his disappearance on the NSW mid-north coast.

. . .

The Australian understands Ms Grahame last week agreed to an application by Michelle Swift, counsel for William’s biological father, for further forensic testing of the image.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...o/news-story/cf0accb8b602bde307146268bfad49c4/timestamp-doubts-over-william-photo/news-story/cf0accb8b602bde307146268bfad49c4

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO it's good to have an open mind and look at all possibilities.

Exactly. Which is why I bother to find the relevant older posts and link them, so that people who have not read back - or who do not remember - can see for themselves the prior sleuthing that has been done (in regard to things being questioned).
.

 

[SouthAussie]

If person/s known or unknown to William murdered him that morning and disposed of the body promptly, then it appears it's an area with lots of hiding spots.

I'm not familiar with the area so looking at google maps. There is Dooragan National Park and Queens Lake amongst many others.

Maybe someone with more knowledge of the area/or case could tell us if these areas were searched?

My understanding was initially they searched close to the house assuming William had wandered off.

I'm not familiar with what technology we might have. I know @PingTheRouter knew a lot about satellite imagery that the government might have in the CS case.

I'm not sure if the average citizen can scour old google earth images for anything suspicious around that time? I remember everyday people looking for MH370.

Yes, other areas have been searched. But, as you say, there is a lot of ground to cover in that area.

Eg:
Officers on Tuesday moved deeper into the Queens Lake State Conservation Area and had to negotiate their way through dense bushland.
Police divers to scour swamp in search for William Tyrrell

A week after William vanished police widened their search to a 48-square kilometre area through the Middle Brother State Forest, looking for any signs of "human intervention" such as items discarded by a kidnapper in a car.
Missing toddler William Tyrrell: 'We hope he is still alive'

 

[Eloise]

So there are two untruths that the foster father has allegedly told to the NSW crime commission. The foster mother his facing two charges of alleged assault on a child (not William).

While you can argue that the Nsw Crime Commission deals with homicides (they do, but generally only in regards to organised crime), they definitely don't deal with common assault. That is just so far out of their wheelhouse.

 

[Awakening]

Yes, other areas have been searched. But, as you say, there is a lot of ground to cover in that area.

Eg:
Officers on Tuesday moved deeper into the Queens Lake State Conservation Area and had to negotiate their way through dense bushland.
Police divers to scour swamp in search for William Tyrrell

A week after William vanished police widened their search to a 48-square kilometre area through the Middle Brother State Forest, looking for any signs of "human intervention" such as items discarded by a kidnapper in a car.
Missing toddler William Tyrrell: 'We hope he is still alive'

Interesting SA, that in this article it says they searched the lake after a tip off to police.

I wonder who gave that tip off? I guess it's possible an accurate tip off and they just couldn't find him.

But I guess also highlights the point that long term followers of the case have made: that tip offs can lead to absolutely nothing.


Divers are to be sent to the area close to where police teams have been scouring bushland after a tip-off about the boy's disappearance.

Investigators earlier said they had confidence in the tip-off that led them to bushland in the Lake Innes Conservation Area on the state's mid north coast.

A large-scale search at the time failed to find any trace of the boy, and it is now thought he was abducted.

Detectives have said it was likely he was taken.