Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

[Serenanicole]

The fact that the foster fathers has been summonsed to the NSW crime commission is a red flag to say the least I’m afraid. IMO.
The commission as we have found unthread investigates serious crimes, including homicide. Note it does not mention it investigates accidental deaths.
Why was he summonsed? His wife is a POI.

 

[Serenanicole]

‘The Commission’s Criminal Investigations Division (‘CID’) has two primary responsibilities: to investigate organised and other serious crime; and, to share intelligence and evidence gathered by the Commission during the course of its activities with its partner agencies.’


‘The CID analyses material obtained from informants and other sources. This material is then shared with the Commission’s partner agencies to assist them in their investigations. In addition, the CID technical team provides specialist surveillance support to Commission investigations and to partner agencies.’


The CID has a range of powers available to assist in advancing investigations. These include traditional law enforcement powers such as search warrants, telecommunications interception and surveillance device warrants. The CID uses the Commission’s power to summons people to give evidence in the Commission’s private hearing room. This power is used to further investigations by obtaining information and evidence from people who are not prepared to co-operate with law enforcement.

 

[Serenanicole]

Criminal Investigations — NSW Crime Commission
a link to what I just posted, sorry technical glitch

 

[Serenanicole]

Five Year Operational Summary 2012-2017 — NSW Crime Commission

‘Homicide Investigations

Over the last five years, the Crime Commission in partnership with the NSW Police Force Homicide Squad has been involved in murder investigations, including cases involving:

• Outlaw Motorcycle Gang disputes;
• Contract killings by hired assassins;
• Drug importation, trafficking and distribution disputes and monetary grievances;
• Disputes in organised crime gangs with a specific ethnicity or membership;
• Clandestine business disagreements;
• Cash in transit robbery;
• Mass family killing;
• Attacks on Crown witnesses ;
• A 16 year old victim of a revenge killing;
• Search for bodies of suspected murder victims.’

 

[Serenanicole]

If the untruths can be ‘proved’ as it has been reported it would be interesting to know the intelligence they might have used.

 

[FromGermany1]

If the untruths can be ‘proved’ as it has been reported it would be interesting to know the intelligence they might have used.

Intelligence

... Not so many options ...... IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

I think if I were being questioned by a the Crime Commission -- after having been warned about the consequences of lying under oath or affirmation -- and I could not clearly recall the specifics relating to a question then, rather than making a best guess, I'd reply that I honestly cannot clearly recall.

In Royal Commissions, as we have seen time and again, Counsel Assisting often already knows the answers to questions put to witnesses and, if they tell porkies, Counsel will then proceed to discredit them by playing video or audio that directly contradicts what the witness has said under oath, in which event the witness is immediately aware that they are now skating on very thin ice and potentially looking at a perjury charge, if not more.

I don't know if the Crime Commission works in a similar 'immediate gotcha' manner when 'interviewing' people who, from hard evidence in its possession, it considers are lying, or if it waits until after their testimony to refer them to police.

On the other hand, if the session before the Crime Commission is a 'third degree under a burning light with a barrage of accusatory type questions' scenario then I guess it is up to police to determine if answers given contravene the facts as the police 'know' them.

It will be interesting indeed to learn what it is that he is accused of not being truthful about. I doubt that it will be something trivial that could be easily dismissed as a slip of the memory.

Maybe, FD knew after some time in 2014, that his wife and her mother were involved, but said nothing to police and lied, so therefore misleading the police. After concentrating on FM/FGM years later, he might have denied any knowledge, but police were able to prove, he indeed must have had knowledge.

MOO and speculation only.

I would be interested to learn, WHY he lied (if not to save his wife or m-i-l). Maybe, there was a secret, which otherwise would have gotten himself into trouble, if his wife had opened up honestly in revenge for his lack of support?

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

A few bickering posts have been removed, and this post lands at random.

"Facts" at Websleuths are as they are available via MSM, LE, and other approved sources.

Every member here is entitled to form their own opinion based on the 'facts' as we know them and their own interpretation of those facts. Most cases are based on circumstantial evidence which itself is defined as evidence from which one or more inferences are to be drawn to establish material facts.

The presumption of innocence principle kicks in upon arrest and the judicial system is held to that principle throughout the entire judicial process. The general public is not part of that judicial system and is NOT held to that same principle. It's fine to have a different opinion, but please don't make others feel they are not entitled to their own interpretation and opinion.

If WS members were held to an "innocent until proven guilty" principle, there would be no reasonable discussion of any case at WS.

 

[Serenanicole]

Perhaps telecommunications interception and surveillance device warrants have been used. Perhaps there is an informant. Perhaps Williams sister has overheard something.

 

[SouthAussie]

<RSBM>

"No date has been set down for the resumption of the inquest," the spokesperson said.

And that's what they say.

When I contacted the Coroners Court (years ago) to see when the inquest into the death of Gary Tweddle was going to be, I was informed that 'no date has been set for an inquest'. I think I posted the email response on the Gary Tweddle thread at the time.

IMO it doesn't mean an inquest - or resumption of an inquest - will definitely happen. Especially when the inquest is said to have 'concluded'.
All the office sees is the court calendar, and advises what is (not) on the calendar.

Unless they have new witnesses or new information, I am not seeing a reason for a resumption. But what do I know?
It is just my sense of what is happening behind the scenes.


(Keeping in mind, that the AVO and those charges may not be linked to William's case, and the FD's 'lying' charges may not be linked to William's case.
They were all brought about many years after William disappeared, and life has gone on since then. They may not be 'new' information, with regard to William's case.)

 

[JBowie]

Maybe, FD knew after some time in 2014, that his wife and her mother were involved, but said nothing to police and lied, so therefore misleading the police. After concentrating on FM/FGM years later, he might have denied any knowledge, but police were able to prove, he indeed must have had knowledge.

MOO and speculation only.

At this stage we don't know for sure that anyone was involved in the disappearance of WT. If someone were to be charged with that, then anyone else who deliberately misled police during their investigation would themselves be liable to be charged with that offence and may even be charged as being an accomplice.

I would be interested to learn, WHY he lied (if not to save his wife or m-i-l). Maybe, there was a secret, which otherwise would have gotten himself into trouble, if his wife had opened up honestly in revenge for his lack of support?

I guess that the most logical reasons for anyone lying to the Crime Commission would be to try to protect themself and/or other person(s) from being seen to be involved, directly or indirectly, with a criminal act.

Deliberately misleading police could also be the result of spite or malice towards another person by making deliberate, provably incorrect and false statements about them with the intention of their being considered a suspect.

 

[ThaiBali]

It's crazy that we only know about this because a surpression order was varied this week. I think there is SO much more we aren't allowed to know right now. For all we know FFC could be facing the same charges.

Any speculation on what he could have "allegedly" lied about?

I'm thinking the assault on the daughter. He was covering up for the FFC.

 

[ThaiBali]

Maybe, FD knew after some time in 2014, that his wife and her mother were involved, but said nothing to police and lied, so therefore misleading the police. After concentrating on FM/FGM years later, he might have denied any knowledge, but police were able to prove, he indeed must have had knowledge.

MOO and speculation only.

I would be interested to learn, WHY he lied (if not to save his wife or m-i-l). Maybe, there was a secret, which otherwise would have gotten himself into trouble, if his wife had opened up honestly in revenge for his lack of support?

From the beginning I'd thought the sudden departure from Sydney to the FFG being a surprise for her a little odd.

Do people turn up at 9-10 pm to surprise an elderly and not well person who'd probably retired to bed a lot earlier with two fully awake children who more than likely slept through the car trip and running rampage through the house. moo

 

[JBowie]

I'm thinking the assault on the daughter. He was covering up for the FFC.

While any sort of assault is serious, especially upon a child, I'm not convinced that allegations of it would warrant an appearance before the Crime Commission.

Besides, none of the assault charges laid by police against the foster parents have been tried in court as yet, so no one has been found guilty or otherwise.

 

[JBowie]

Do people turn up at 9-10 pm to surprise an elderly and not well person who'd probably retired to bed a lot earlier with two fully awake children who more than likely slept through the car trip and running rampage through the house. moo

I believe the kids were asleep when they arrived at the FGM's house and were put to bed soon thereafter.

IIRC, the foster mother said that she called the FGM ahead of the trip to say they were setting off that afternoon rather than the next morning.

 

[FromGermany1]

From the beginning I'd thought the sudden departure from Sydney to the FFG being a surprise for her a little odd.

Do people turn up at 9-10 pm to surprise an elderly and not well person who'd probably retired to bed a lot earlier with two fully awake children who more than likely slept through the car trip and running rampage through the house. moo

The term "surprise" always bothered me, from the start.
"We had to arrive much earlier than expected, because otherwise we would have arrived too late for the abduction." That might have been more honest, but is impossible to say of course.

 

[Shadow@light]

His slightly older sister was the last person to see the boy in the Spider-Man suit — one minute they were playing "tigers" on the lawn of their foster grandmother's home in Kendall on the NSW Mid-North Coast, the next he was gone.

She cannot remember what happened and now, aged 10, she no longer remembers him at all.

"The photobooks are his memories — they show you the innocence and love his sister and him have for each other," their foster mother told the NSW Coroner's Court.

I was really surprised by this statement that "she no longer remembers him at all "

Why does she not remember him at all ? Surely she has photos and he is still spoken of by others around her ?

His slightly older sister was the last person to see the boy in the Spider-Man suit — one minute they were playing "tigers" on the lawn of their foster grandmother's home in Kendall on the NSW Mid-North Coast, the next he was gone.

She cannot remember what happened and now, aged 10, she no longer remembers him at all.

"The photobooks are his memories — they show you the innocence and love his sister and him have for each other," their foster mother told the NSW Coroner's Court.

I was really surprised by this statement that "she no longer remembers him at all "

Why does she not remember him at all ? Surely she has photos and he is still spoken of by others around her ?

Shock even at the age of six years old or slightly young can cause memory block.
The fact William has never been found his older sister has blocked it from her mind as the truma and guilt she was the last one to see him can affect her IMO. If it correct she help file charges against her Foster Carers, I taken it as this as one angry girl lashing out(or it could be be correct it happened)
Sorry again bring up my back grounding, but I struggle to remember events when I was six so does my older siblings, my clearest memories I have starts March 1974, after our Mother left us in a Children home and walked away. Years of fear etc. Years before this it is fragments of memories which I starting to put together along with paper trail and help of Goggle Earth ( my Mother left misinformation with the Welfere.)
I mean, thanks to Webseulths, I found the house we lived in a short while before going to Children Home in Westren Australia . We remembered the house and surroundings , not the street or suburb. Myself and siblings were left confused when reading years later reading our welfare files we knew the street and Suburb given in our files was not correct as she said the street was in Highgate. Due to Members of Websleuth discussion about the Claremont Killings, long before the arrest was made, at the time I was an on and off lurker, one of the member put up the original newspaper clippings and photos where one of victim last confirm sighting. showed to siblings, the bridge to above Railway Station, telephone box the area we remembered it we used Goggle Earth within minutes we found the house in Claremont where we had lived earlier. You would think at the age of six years I would remembered the address.
Knowing things and blocking it out can lead to anger, confusion and frustration, but it the mind protecting itself, IMO William's sister would be feeling this very strongly.

 

[bearbear]

off topic but may be of interest for those who followed khandalyce pearce body in suitcase case...
Crime Investigation Australia: Baby In The Suitcase (S4EP3 Channel 7 Sunday 13 March 2022) 8.30 pm

 

[deugirtni]

Shock even at the age of six years old or slightly young can cause memory block.
The fact William has never been found his older sister has blocked it from her mind as the truma and guilt she was the last one to see him can affect her IMO. If it correct she help file charges against her Foster Carers, I taken it as this as one angry girl lashing out(or it could be be correct it happened)
Sorry again bring up my back grounding, but I struggle to remember events when I was six so does my older siblings, my clearest memories I have starts March 1974, after our Mother left us in a Children home and walked away. Years of fear etc. Years before this it is fragments of memories which I starting to put together along with paper trail and help of Goggle Earth ( my Mother left misinformation with the Welfere.)
I mean, thanks to Webseulths, I found the house we lived in a short while before going to Children Home in Westren Australia . We remembered the house and surroundings , not the street or suburb. Myself and siblings were left confused when reading years later reading our welfare files we knew the street and Suburb given in our files was not correct as she said the street was in Highgate. Due to Members of Websleuth discussion about the Claremont Killings, long before the arrest was made, at the time I was an on and off lurker, one of the member put up the original newspaper clippings and photos where one of victim last confirm sighting. showed to siblings, the bridge to above Railway Station, telephone box the area we remembered it we used Goggle Earth within minutes we found the house in Claremont where we had lived earlier. You would think at the age of six years I would remembered the address.
Knowing things and blocking it out can lead to anger, confusion and frustration, but it the mind protecting itself, IMO William's sister would be feeling this very strongly.

That's amazing that you were able to locate your early residence from clues seen on WS!

 

[Serenanicole]

The term "surprise" always bothered me, from the start.
"We had to arrive much earlier than expected, because otherwise we would have arrived too late for the abduction." That might have been more honest, but is impossible to say of course.

I have never had a problem with the ‘surprise’ as this is something I have done before and many others that I know. I guess it’s being spontaneous, and it’s her mother who probably didn’t mind.
I have always kept an open mind about this case, but from as early as I knew the movements of the foster father that day, I felt it was at the very least uncanny. That he leaves for his VC, William disappears pretty much in that gap of time, he returns not long after. That’s the part for me that I come back to.