Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #69

[SouthAussie]

Yes, they are in the spin merchant business. I gather that they agreed/volunteered to work on a pro rata basis for the FPs.

I have wondered if the Crime Commission appearances (alleged lies) are about the ruckus that happened between Insight and Braveheart. That became a legal matter. CO says in the link that it was 'headed to court'.

The Wheres William campaign moved away from them financially and started using The Morcombe Foundation for acceptance of donations.

I don't know if you can see this Australian article, but it explains some of what happened.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...s/news-story/2683446fab1cc3cb8d90f9b60656d435

 

[JBowie]

On the aspect of the ability to keep telling porkies for years, there's by chance an interesting article in today's Australian titled "Science proves it: the more we lie, the easier it gets."

Snippet: This neural readjustment explains why seasoned liars can lie again and again literally without breaking into a sweat. “Here we go again,” sighs the amygdala, without bothering to kick up much of a fuss.

As with all articles in The Australian it is probably pay-walled, however, as it originated in The Times, it may be readable via another route.

 

[Couldbe]

Given originally it was seemingly fairly accepted that FF left around 9am, long before the 9:37am photo time, if they have subsequent information placing him at the house at 9:30am, they'd have to be very precise. 9:30am - 9:40am (I am allowing a couple of minutes for something to potentially happen after the photo) is not a long time if we are working on estimates.

Deputy state coroner Harriet Grahame, in looking closely at the photo timing, may also be examining a link between the MFC's departure time and the photo time. JMO
William Tyrrell: Never before seen photos released five years to the day of Kendall disappearance | Daily Mail Online
"Deputy state coroner Harriet Grahame last month ordered an independent review of the photographs, because of a discrepancy in forensic data about the pictures.

The pictures, handed to the inquest by NSW Police, were 'created' between 7.37am and 7.39am.

But the photos had a 'corrected time' ranging between 9.35am and 9.37am.

10 News reported the foster mother had told police she had never entered the correct time into the digital camera the pictures were taken on.

The coroner said she wanted the discrepancy examined."

 

[Akai]

To keep it in context, I snipped and addressed a specific part of your post, in my reply. I was not speaking about all the other content the post.

The fact is, police (in this case) said countless times for people to please watch for someone whose behaviour had changed. Please tell them about it.

This is what I was addressing:
"Simply going with what they have said: that the focus is on finding William, rather than laying blame for it - not helpful at all. If police believed they were dealing with a situation of harm then people simply considering what they may have seen rather than the way someone acted could have shifted the investigation away from finding the culprit. I have heard police say countless times in countless investigations to look out for "changes of behaviour" and people "behaving unusually". This is about character, not just circumstances."

That paragraph cannot be read out of the context in which it was provided because it was an example of what I had said before, not something independent. I perhaps did not explain myself well enough. I am talking about the fact that the PR campaign conflicted with the police's objectives and this means that no matter what police were doing, it was being countered by an alternative narrative. People weren't just being encouraged to focus on what the police campaign was asking, they were being asked to think in the way the PR campaign was narrating.

Now this isn't really an issue if it's a trivial exercise by the PR company. But the statement of Lia Harris's indicates it was not a trivial exercise, but rather it was hugely successful and endorsed (either directly or indirectly) by the media because they appreciated it. She indicates that the scope of the campaign did shift to people thinking about what happened, not who was to blame. This indicates a possible shift in public thinking to circumstances from/rather than behaviour. So the police messaging that you talked is possibly, even likely, less effective than it should have been.

It concerns me that information may have been missed and also that a great deal of superfluous information may have been provided as a result. This is particularly troubling given we are 7 years down the track with no result and an awful lot of mess as a result.

It also concerns me because this PR company was working for/with someone who is now a POI with charges related to lying. How much did the company's narrative shield the FM from scrutiny she may otherwise have been subjected to? Also, it would be different if she had been cleared or if it was beyond the realms of possibility that she was involved, but that was never the case. She may not have been specifically suspected by the police, but she was never completely ruled out. Yet this PR campaign contributed to the perspective that she had been ruled out.

 

[JBowie]

I have wondered if the Crime Commission appearances (alleged lies) are about the ruckus that happened between Insight and Braveheart. That became a legal matter. CO says in the link that it was 'headed to court'.

The Wheres William campaign moved away from them financially and started using The Morcombe Foundation for acceptance of donations.

I don't know if you can see this Australian article, but it explains some of what happened.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...s/news-story/2683446fab1cc3cb8d90f9b60656d435

However, this paragraph by Overington moves it away from Where's William:

The Weekend Australian understands the dispute is not over funds raised by Where’s William, but rather over payment for other work that Insight says it did for Bravehearts on campaigns to educate parents about child safety more generally. Bravehearts says no money is owed.

 

[centred]

Not only that, but if you go to the firm’s page you can see who else they do or have managed. Quite a few involved/were involved in this case

yes I did notice some connections

 

[HilaryHormone]

On the aspect of the ability to keep telling porkies for years, there's by chance an interesting article in today's Australian titled "Science proves it: the more we lie, the easier it gets."

Snippet: This neural readjustment explains why seasoned liars can lie again and again literally without breaking into a sweat. “Here we go again,” sighs the amygdala, without bothering to kick up much of a fuss.

As with all articles in The Australian it is probably pay-walled, however, as it originated in The Times, it may be readable via another route.

I think some people actually convince themselves their lies are truth, eventually. The ‘best’ lies are the simple, non embellished ones. I appreciate some find FFC’s statements to be overly long winded with seemingly irrelevant detail, but I think that might actually be anxiety driven.

I can’t find the source, but have read of parents/carers of missing/kidnapped children failing polygraphs purely because of the sense of guilt they felt in ‘failing’ the child, by taking their eyes off them. I reckon I’d be one of those parents. As an aside, it always struck me as strange that the FC’s never once, that I can recall, blamed themselves or expressed any sense of guilt or shame, they may have done so privately though, who knows.

 

[JBowie]

As an aside, it always struck me as strange that the FC’s never once, that I can recall, blamed themselves or expressed any sense of guilt or shame, they may have done so privately though, who knows.

And, AFAIK, no one has put the question of self blame or guilt directly to them (and, apart from police, it would probably take someone with the style of a so-called 'shock jock' to pose that direct question).

I would be interested to hear their response to that particular question. It might change or reaffirm my own opinion that the FM's account of things, as spoken by her, is difficult to believe.

 

[deugirtni]

... As an aside, it always struck me as strange that the FC’s never once, that I can recall, blamed themselves or expressed any sense of guilt or shame, they may have done so privately though, who knows.

I have noticed that as well.

One time one of our dogs got out of our completely fenced yard and we couldn't find him anywhere, and it went on for a day or two before we finally found him safe. The feeling of guilt was unbearable, feeling we had failed at keeping him safe, feeling responsible for his life, etc. Whether there is much that could've been done about such a situation, or whether it is rational or not to be feeling that way, the inner feelings of guilt are unimaginable. I can't imagine the feelings of guilt one would have if they'd been in charge of a child who mysteriously disappeared, and even moreso if the child was not their own child, but tasked with that responsibility on behalf of someone else. To my knowledge I don't believe there has been ever, one mention from the FPs of feeling guilty, or even feeling responsible for this happening under their watch. But yet FM 'kicked herself' for not taking down the plate numbers on the vehicles she saw parked in the street that morning, and FD stated during the same interview that he felt guilty when leaving Kendall. imo.

From the FPs' two-part interview with Lia Harris one year after W's disappearance:

FM: So it, it, it just didn’t make sense to me, that you know, I’m in Kendall, why do I think it’s an issue, because Kendall’s not the city, and I kick myself, I kick myself in terms of why didn’t I note down the, the number plates. But the logic part of me says you know what? In Sydney you’d write down the number plate. In Kendall? There’s no reason to write down a number plate. It is one of the most safest towns in New South Wales.

FD: And all the way home, just a reminder, I mean I felt so guilty about leaving, there wasn’t, I couldn’t find him, just awful.

[part one] - permission has been obtained to post this link

 

[SouthAussie]

However, this paragraph by Overington moves it away from Where's William:

The Weekend Australian understands the dispute is not over funds raised by Where’s William, but rather over payment for other work that Insight says it did for Bravehearts on campaigns to educate parents about child safety more generally. Bravehearts says no money is owed.

I can't name him or provide the newssheet that does, due to the NPO, but the NSW Ambassador for Bravehearts is/was a key figure in this case.

What I am suggesting is that the Crime Commission may have required the FP to appear as witnesses to what went on between Insight and Bravehearts. And police feel that they lied about something to do with that.


Although, quite honestly, I am not seeing anything 'organised crime' or 'terrorist' enough to be investigated by the Crime Commission (from what we know). Unless the Crime Commission got involved as a favour to a retiring police commissioner - which I guess is possible, but really steps outside their mission statement. imo

 

[Couldbe]

Can anyone here comment on William having Asthma? (MFC, in walkthrough video, said that because of his Asthma, William wouldn't attempt to walk uphill).
https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...d/news-story/bf443e9f1dc23a9151cca5b843b6fd58
"However, she expressed concern about the boy’s weight, noting she was worried he’s “a bit too skinny”.

 

[bearbear]

from the wheres william page.....
William’s Health
Generally William was in good health, strong and fit however, he suffered from asthma, particularly during the colder weather at night and would have coughing fits.

• William’s medication is: Ventolin 2 puffs when needed and Flixotide at night time as a preventer.
• If the asthma was particularly distressing for him RediPred needs to be given to assist with his breathing.
• William’s vaccinations were up to date when he disappeared BUT he will need his 4 year old vaccinations.
• William had good strong teeth and loved going to the dentist for his check-ups.

About William

 

[SLouTh]

What I am suggesting is that the Crime Commission may have required the FP to appear as witnesses to what went on between Insight and Bravehearts. And police feel that they lied about something to do with that.

And yet, this has been published by The Guardian .....

The foster mother of missing child William Tyrrell provided a NSW Crime Commission hearing about the boy’s disappearance with false or misleading information, police have alleged.

William Tyrrell’s foster mother charged with giving misleading evidence | New South Wales | The Guardian

 

[Couldbe]

from the wheres william page.....
William’s Health
Generally William was in good health, strong and fit however, he suffered from asthma, particularly during the colder weather at night and would have coughing fits.

• William’s medication is: Ventolin 2 puffs when needed and Flixotide at night time as a preventer.
• If the asthma was particularly distressing for him RediPred needs to be given to assist with his breathing.
• William’s vaccinations were up to date when he disappeared BUT he will need his 4 year old vaccinations.
• William had good strong teeth and loved going to the dentist for his check-ups.

About William

LE would surely have been able to access the Associations of Doctors......to be alert for William....especially when viewing the abduction theory.
As per quote, sounds like his Asthma could be quite a problem for him.
Puffers are available without a presceiption;
https://www.nps.org.au/medicine-finder/redipred-oral-solution
"REDIPRED is only available with a doctor's prescription."

 

[SleepyJoe]

As an aside, it always struck me as strange that the FC’s never once, that I can recall, blamed themselves or expressed any sense of guilt or shame, they may have done so privately though, who knows.

I agree with you on this - I have always thought that was odd as well. Personally, if a child I was caring for went missing on my watch I would be wracked with guilt and self-recrimination. Perhaps they did express this privately, but it is interesting to me that it wasn't expressed publicly.

 

[Couldbe]

I agree with you on this - I have always thought that was odd as well. Personally, if a child I was caring for went missing on my watch I would be wracked with guilt and self-recrimination. Perhaps they did express this privately, but it is interesting to me that it wasn't expressed publicly.

In the 60 Minutes interview, when Michael Usher asked her in words to the effect, did FFGM blamed herself in any way, and FFC replied to the effect that she hoped not. JMO but I was expecting to hear FFC say a bit more to reassure FGM publicly; as her Mother would no doubt have been watching the program.

 

[Karin1974]

CSO fits. Jubelin was going through the local directory of them.

Sorry for my ignorance but could someone advise what CSO stands for here, I have googled it & there are many answers?

 

[nightrider17]

Can I ask a opinion in regards to the photos.
There was 5 photos taken in total - which she mentioned in the sixty minutes program she was going to use as a photo album story of their time at Grandmas.

Does anyone else think its odd that she didn't get any close up pictures of her foster daughter - I get that she took photos of them doing activities but I would also think she would take a facial photo of each child.

Probably over thinking it. It doesn't mean anything just took random photos and probably thought she would get others later. MOO.

 

[bearbear]

Sorry for my ignorance but could someone advise what CSO stands for here, I have googled it & there are many answers?

cso.....child sex offender

 

[SouthAussie]

And yet, this has been published by The Guardian .....

The foster mother of missing child William Tyrrell provided a NSW Crime Commission hearing about the boy’s disappearance with false or misleading information, police have alleged.

William Tyrrell’s foster mother charged with giving misleading evidence | New South Wales | The Guardian

And published by other MSM sources .....

The charges relate to evidence the foster mother gave at a hearing before the NSW Crime Commission, and are not related to the operations of NSW Police.
William Tyrrell's foster mum charged with lying

So which is it?