Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #69

[SouthAussie]

Simply going with what they have said: that the focus is on finding William, rather than laying blame for it - not helpful at all. If police believed they were dealing with a situation of harm then people simply considering what they may have seen rather than the way someone acted could have shifted the investigation away from finding the culprit. I have heard police say countless times in countless investigations to look out for "changes of behaviour" and people "behaving unusually". This is about character, not just circumstances.

It has been heard in this investigation also (many times).


“They will no doubt be feeling pressure from the intensity of the investigation,” he said.

“I believe people close to this person might notice a change in their behaviour.

“I would encourage them to come forward with any information they have – William's family need answers as to what happened to their little boy.”
Latest search for William Tyrrell ends

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

No, I wouldn't want Schapelle Corby involved. Or anyone who is convicted of drug running. If it was my missing child.

That’s your prerogative, and whilst I wouldn’t want someone convicted of something involved in the actual campaign itself, the photo of her holding a bag showing a missing child made national news and highlighted the case.

While PR wise the company running the campaign may of thought it not ideal for them, it was another form of media telling Australia’s that this poor kid was missing.

 

[centred]

From my recollection that was deter

Yes, I nearly spat out my tea at that line. They're articulating the fact that the public was manipulated. To what end we don't know, but it would have had an impact on how people approached the provision of information in this case.

Simply going with what they have said: that the focus is on finding William, rather than laying blame for it - not helpful at all. If police believed they were dealing with a situation of harm then people simply considering what they may have seen rather than the way someone acted could have shifted the investigation away from finding the culprit. I have heard police say countless times in countless investigations to look out for "changes of behaviour" and people "behaving unusually". This is about character, not just circumstances.

My take was the whole point of the investigation was to find who was responsible for a child missing ? Not just finding him !

To be fair that review was written by a journalist from her perspective , which in a way is a reflection on the way she was dealing with it perhaps . However reading into the objectives of the marketing company , if you go through them its aims are too change perceptions and create the outcome the client needs and wants .....

Expertise - Insight Communications

 

[deugirtni]

From *my* memory, I believe Caroline Overington stated that records had shown MFC left the house at 9:30am... I remember being very confused about that, because up until that point, I had always heard he had left at 9am. She said through some kind of cell records, whether it was 'tower' records, or what, I can't remember. I can try to dig up that info from CO... I believe it may have been on one of her podcasts. Does anyone else remember what I'm talking about and does anyone have a link?

Question on the 9.30am departure time from the house by MFC.

Mobile phone records have shown that William’s foster father left his mother-in-law’s home in Kendall at 9.30am on Friday, September 12, 2014. (https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...d/news-story/6983c0a44392f8599514e4b5c8a56f04)

Does anyone know exactly how this time, via his mobile phone records, would have been established?

I am wondering how accurate this departure time is; e.g. could he have left a bit later / or a bit earlier?

Time is of the essence in establishing the correct time of his departure, and whether MFC and FFC were lying about whether MFC was there when FFC said she took that iconic photo of William with her camera.

This is at least one of the reports made by Caroline Overington in The Australian regarding MFC's departure time from Benaroon Drive that fateful morning, so it seems this time of 9:30am has been reported in The Guardian, news.com, and The Australian, as per links toward the end of previous thread. This Aus article also claims the photos had been verified as being taken at 9:37am. It would be helpful to know from where these pieces of information originated, and whether one media source is merely quoting another media source, or if there was in fact ever a legit source, imo.:

About 9.30am, William’s foster father left the house. We know this is true because his phone has been tracked. He made a Skype call from an area with better internet connection, then picked up a paper and dropped by the chemist to fill a script.

We know William was still alive when he left the house because there’s that famous photograph of him, playing on the deck in his bright red suit.

It was taken at 9.37am. That has likewise been verified.

The day little William vanished into thin air … (theaustralian.com.au)

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

IMO If someones intent was merely to help find out what happened to my child I would willingly accept the kindness and thoughts regardless of their "previous indiscretions " Who am I too judge the intent . Even it wasn't such a great look it would not matter .

The whole point of the campaign I would’ve thought was to do the most important thing in this whole sage- find William and those responsible for his disappearance. Running a fb page and liking favourable posts leaving everyone feeling warm and fluffy, and running a PR campaign to make the FFC’s look the model parents whilst supporting hiding their identities the whole time hasn’t done much to find William.
The public need to be encouraged to help police find evidence, give information and help find those responsible.
All IMO

 

[JBowie]

It has been heard in this investigation also (many times).


“They will no doubt be feeling pressure from the intensity of the investigation,” he said.

“I believe people close to this person might notice a change in their behaviour.

“I would encourage them to come forward with any information they have – William's family need answers as to what happened to their little boy.”
Latest search for William Tyrrell ends

A line of inquiry into a ‘high risk’ person of interest

'High risk' is an interesting description. Risk of what? Maybe that's sloppy cop talk meaning highly suspicious (in their view).

At the end of the two-day search at Batar Creek, Det Ch Insp Jubelin Gary Jubelin said there was a person who knew why investigators searched the area.

Who is that person?

 

[centred]

In the police statement of hers that is read verbatim on the Where's William Tyrrell podcast, in the episode "One Last Roar" at approximately 21:30 (give or take 5 seconds), she describes it as "came from the BUSH". I am simply using her word verbatim.

Is this all about the direction of the bird call ? If so i heard it (the bird call ) in the MFC run through with police . Its as plain as day, a common bird call that does indeed sound like the sound she described

 

[JBowie]

However reading into the objectives of the marketing company , if you go through them its aims are too change perceptions and create the outcome the client needs and wants .....

Expertise - Insight Communications

Yes, they are in the spin merchant business. I gather that they agreed/volunteered to work on a pro rata basis for the FPs.

 

[SouthAussie]

A line of inquiry into a ‘high risk’ person of interest

'High risk' is an interesting description. Risk of what? Maybe that's sloppy cop talk meaning highly suspicious (in their view).

At the end of the two-day search at Batar Creek, Det Ch Insp Jubelin Gary Jubelin said there was a person who knew why investigators searched the area.

Who is that person?

We wondered if it was a high risk CSO.
We did a lot of sleuthing in that search area, looking for people who may have had familiarity with it.

 

[Akai]

It has been heard in this investigation also (many times).


“They will no doubt be feeling pressure from the intensity of the investigation,” he said.

“I believe people close to this person might notice a change in their behaviour.

“I would encourage them to come forward with any information they have – William's family need answers as to what happened to their little boy.”
Latest search for William Tyrrell ends

Not sure if we are talking crossed purposes here, but I was referring to the statement published from Lia Harris who stated that the PR company changed the scope of the campaign and talking about why that was problematic.

I think what you have pointed actually reinforces why it was an issue. Police DID want people to be looking at the character side of matters, because they were looking for a perpetrator. But as Lia is pointing out, the Insight campaign was designed to shift it away from that to being about simply finding William. So they were potentially actively working against the police's objectives. If as Lia indicates, this campaign was essentially endorsed by the media, then by running Insight's narrative, the media was also potentially actively working against the police objectives. I find the involvement of Insight and the attitude expressed by Lia, concerning, because of the ramifications to the investigation. PR companies should not be running narratives on criminal investigations.

 

[Couldbe]

This is at least one of the reports made by Caroline Overington in The Australian regarding MFC's departure time from Benaroon Drive that fateful morning, so it seems this time of 9:30am has been reported in The Guardian, news.com, and The Australian, as per links toward the end of previous thread. This Aus article also claims the photos had been verified as being taken at 9:37am. It would be helpful to know from where these pieces of information originated, and whether one media source is merely quoting another media source, or if there was in fact ever a legit source, imo.:

About 9.30am, William’s foster father left the house. We know this is true because his phone has been tracked. He made a Skype call from an area with better internet connection, then picked up a paper and dropped by the chemist to fill a script.

We know William was still alive when he left the house because there’s that famous photograph of him, playing on the deck in his bright red suit.

It was taken at 9.37am. That has likewise been verified.

The day little William vanished into thin air … (theaustralian.com.au)

So this might explain why FFC, of the two fosters (respectfully stating FGM is now deceased) is the one that has been named as a POI.

 

[centred]

Yes, they are in the spin merchant business. I gather that they agreed/volunteered to work on a pro rata basis for the FPs.

I don't know and I didn't know until today about this but I can say I am surprised about this marketing campaign being involved at all . I was aware of the campaign but not the marketing to media etc ... I am a bit miffed to be honest .

 

[Akai]

This is at least one of the reports made by Caroline Overington in The Australian regarding MFC's departure time from Benaroon Drive that fateful morning, so it seems this time of 9:30am has been reported in The Guardian, news.com, and The Australian, as per links toward the end of previous thread. This Aus article also claims the photos had been verified as being taken at 9:37am. It would be helpful to know from where these pieces of information originated, and whether one media source is merely quoting another media source, or if there was in fact ever a legit source, imo.:

About 9.30am, William’s foster father left the house. We know this is true because his phone has been tracked. He made a Skype call from an area with better internet connection, then picked up a paper and dropped by the chemist to fill a script.

We know William was still alive when he left the house because there’s that famous photograph of him, playing on the deck in his bright red suit.

It was taken at 9.37am. That has likewise been verified.

The day little William vanished into thin air … (theaustralian.com.au)

They have subsequently reported this information as coming from "mobile phone records", but this sounds more like GPS tracking of the phone, which is different. So something got lost in translation or the police specifically obfuscated that for a reason.

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

Not sure if we are talking crossed purposes here, but I was referring to the statement published from Lia Harris who stated that the PR company changed the scope of the campaign and talking about why that was problematic.

I think what you have pointed actually reinforces why it was an issue. Police DID want people to be looking at the character side of matters, because they were looking for a perpetrator. But as Lia is pointing out, the Insight campaign was designed to shift it away from that to being about simply finding William. So they were potentially actively working against the police's objectives. If as Lia indicates, this campaign was essentially endorsed by the media, then by running Insight's narrative, the media was also potentially actively working against the police objectives. I find the involvement of Insight and the attitude expressed by Lia, concerning, because of the ramifications to the investigation. PR companies should not be running narratives on criminal investigations.

Imagine how bad this will look for the PR firm should the FFC be found guilty of involvement in William’s disappearance
Could go from Pro-bono to Oh-No no!

 

[SouthAussie]

Not sure if we are talking crossed purposes here, but I was referring to the statement published from Lia Harris who stated that the PR company changed the scope of the campaign and talking about why that was problematic.

I think what you have pointed actually reinforces why it was an issue. Police DID want people to be looking at the character side of matters, because they were looking for a perpetrator. But as Lia is pointing out, the Insight campaign was designed to shift it away from that to being about simply finding William. So they were potentially actively working against the police's objectives. If as Lia indicates, this campaign was essentially endorsed by the media, then by running Insight's narrative, the media was also potentially actively working against the police objectives. I find the involvement of Insight and the attitude expressed by Lia, concerning, because of the ramifications to the investigation. PR companies should not be running narratives on criminal investigations.

To keep it in context, I snipped and addressed a specific part of your post, in my reply. I was not speaking about all the other content in the post.

The fact is, police (in this case) said countless times for people to please watch for someone whose behaviour had changed. Please tell them about it.

This is what I was addressing:
"Simply going with what they have said: that the focus is on finding William, rather than laying blame for it - not helpful at all. If police believed they were dealing with a situation of harm then people simply considering what they may have seen rather than the way someone acted could have shifted the investigation away from finding the culprit. I have heard police say countless times in countless investigations to look out for "changes of behaviour" and people "behaving unusually". This is about character, not just circumstances."

 

[Akai]

Is this all about the direction of the bird call ? If so i heard it (the bird call ) in the MFC run through with police . Its as plain as day, a common bird call that does indeed sound like the sound she described

Yes, she says she then thought she might have imagined it or it might have been a bird so she stopped pursuing the sound.

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

I don't know and I didn't know until today about this but I can say I am surprised about this marketing campaign being involved at all . I was aware of the campaign but not the marketing to media etc ... I am a bit miffed to be honest .

Not only that, but if you go to the firm’s page you can see who else they do or have managed. Quite a few involved/were involved in this case

 

[JBowie]

We wondered if it was a high risk CSO.
We did a lot of sleuthing in that search area, looking for people who may have had familiarity with it.

CSO fits. Jubelin was going through the local directory of them.

 

[Akai]

So this might explain why FFC, of the two fosters (respectfully stating FGM is now deceased) is the one that has been named as a POI.

Given originally it was seemingly fairly accepted that FF left around 9am, long before the 9:37am photo time, if they have subsequent information placing him at the house at 9:30am, they'd have to be very precise. 9:30am - 9:40am (I am allowing a couple of minutes for something to potentially happen after the photo) is not a long time if we are working on estimates.

 

[SouthAussie]

CSO fits. Jubelin was going through the local directory of them.

Interestingly, they received the information during the planned 4 week search. So they moved into that area.

We probably know about 100 pages of that 2,000 page police brief.