Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #69

[they'll get you]

I agree. It’s very scary. .

I don’t discount the possibility of Abduction in William’s situation - however I just can’t get it to work for me because there is no information / evidence of anyone being in the area, who shouldn’t have been in the area. And the police apparently checked all neighbours & were satisfied of their non-involvement. I so wish I / someone could come up with a viable theory for that, as maybe we might then solve this.

I think of Madeleine McCann or Daniel Morcombe and a myriad of children taken by opportunistic people who just happened to be there at the ‘right’ time.

I live in a rural area similar to Beneroon Drive and on our FB page a woman walked around the side of her property to find a man who she didn’t recognise standing there. She hightailed back inside to see him quickly walking down the street.

I honestly feel it’s a probability how William was taken.

 

[they'll get you]

IMO, that needs to be taken ‘with a grain of salt’ or in a different context - otherwise it’d be a case of 1) useless sniffer dogs or 2) a totally different investigation focused on William never getting out of the car on the night of family arrival at FFGM’s.

RBBM

An elderly man living in the street William Tyrrell went missing from recalls hearing children playing the morning the three-year-old disappeared


Mr Savage, who lived across the road from the house where William was playing, said he was sitting on his verandah with his toast and tea between 9am and 9.30am when he heard children playing.

Elderly neighbour tells Tyrrell inquest he remembers 'hearing the kids'

 

[Warshawski]

It’s quite possible there are many more photos. The police have only released what they felt were relevant to the case.

or it may even perhaps be that they’ve only released what they’re comfortable to release at this stage.

IMO, there’s a fine balance in any investigation between how much to release:
in an attempt to bring in more ‘evidence / information early & quickly
in satisfying the feeling of ‘flying under the radar’ by those responsible
in cases like this, in satisfying public thirst for knowledge & our desire to help
in keeping things ‘front of mind’ hoping to tweak a memory
in bringing in & drawing on, people & resources to help fill in gaps

I don’t believe the public is privy to a fraction of the Stuff that police are absolutely sure about, in relation to William.

I’m so appreciative of my sleuthing colleagues here, & the info found

I don’t believe there’s anything to be served by being one-eyed in a situation we are not privy to all the information about / not witnessed

I enjoy, appreciate & welcome healthy debate.

I believe there is no ‘I’ in TEAM and I joined WS in the belief it was a team United in William’s quest.

I abhor disrespect, rudeness, stone walling, gas lighting and the ‘blanking’ / abolishment of the thoughts of another.

I absolutely do believe that this will eventually be solved, and that William’s legacy will be a force of Good, as Daniel’s is.

 

[Warshawski]

There is a really big problem with the 'system'.

Why does BM have full custody of Williams 2 little brothers but its not appropriate for Williams sister to be with her Bm and her brothers.

Either BM is an unfit mother or she isn't.

Why in the world are biological siblings being treated 180 degree different.

The hypocrisy and red tape in this case is disgusting.

MOO

I think it’s well evidenced /documented that our DEPT of (whatever it’s now called - Family Services, Children’s Services ) operates in a system that lacks so much of what one would expect under the term ‘Services’.

Having said that, I’m not sure of the full time care situation of William’s brothers, altho Mum is certainly involved.

I don’t dispute that there are times where, as a society, we need to step in to support the care of our children. In so doing, we should also be focused on rehabilitation & the goal of reunification.

However, IMO, that ‘support & care’ is often lacking; staff are broken & burned out & the fate of far too many children in ‘supposed care’ has resulted in death.

With an election looming, this would be a great pro bono cause for Insight Communications - lead a lobby for an examination of this DEPT ( then we can move to Health)
Let’s look at the Books
Let’s work out Why the Feet that are Needed on the Ground, can’t be provided
Let’s examine what’s skimmed off, that can be mixed in

I’m appalled to see the decline in our society & why we don’t prioritise Tax $ toward a functioning family. That would remove so many $ $ needed to support Drug policing, drug / mental health hospitalisation,
Unemployment, Child Services, crime policing, jail support ...

 

[SouthAussie]

However, IMO, that ‘support & care’ is often lacking; staff are broken & burned out & the fate of far too many children in ‘supposed care’ has resulted in death.

In South Australia we have had the opposite problem. Our Families SA dept is currently under review again because 2 children (aged 6 & 5) who should've been removed from their mother were murdered by her boyfriend - as was the mother.

The last review was for Chloe Valentine's death, inquest in 2014, who also should have been removed from her mother. But the mother was given excuse after excuse, a case worker even cleaned the mother's squalid house once or twice.
(There is a thread here on WS for Chloe.)

It swings both ways. But the reason is the same. As you say, the staff are broken and burned out. They are decent people. They just can't keep up with it all .... mentally or physically.

 

[JBowie]

It swings both ways. But the reason is the same. As you say, the staff are broken and burned out. They are decent people. They just can't keep up with it all .... mentally or physically.

Agree. I don't know why people would even want the job (a bit like nursing and teaching these days).

 

[bfew]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

In late 2016, the fosters applied for sole parental responsibility for William's sister, (possibly not the 1st time they had done this). And in response, William's sole parent bio-mother tried to get William's sister back in her parental care. (see quotes below from a related legal case)

So did this 6 Dec 2016 hearing from the Fosters to get sole responsibility for William's sister, proceed?

Secretary, Department of Family and Community Services v Smith [2017] NSWSC 6 (23 January 2017)

'3. The carers have recently applied to the Children’s Court for sole parental responsibility for Sarah.
In response, the mother has stated that she seeks restoration of Sarah to her care.
The father, who is now separated from the mother, is not actively engaged.
The proceedings were to be heard from 6 December 2016 over four days; whether that hearing proceeded and if so its outcome is not known to me.'

 

[Warshawski]

How much of a feel good story would it be if hypothetically, the BM was on such a good track, it was found that FACS made a meal of the fostering process of her kids and deemed it necessary to put all her kids back in her care. Aside from finding out what happened to William, this IMO would be another fantastic outcome for this whole shebang

I continue to pray for things to come together that family.

 

[Serenanicole]

This is why this case is so tricky and has been as such from the start. Williams status as a foster child has largely been a distraction to finding out what has happened to him.
The discussion right now highlights this and divides people on this forum immensely. Whatever way you look it at, William is missing, whether or not he should have been with the foster parents or the biological parents does not help us find out what happened to him. I mean really?

 

[k-mac]

I think it’s well evidenced /documented that our DEPT of (whatever it’s now called - Family Services, Children’s Services ) operates in a system that lacks so much of what one would expect under the term ‘Services’.

Having said that, I’m not sure of the full time care situation of William’s brothers, altho Mum is certainly involved.

I don’t dispute that there are times where, as a society, we need to step in to support the care of our children. In so doing, we should also be focused on rehabilitation & the goal of reunification.

However, IMO, that ‘support & care’ is often lacking; staff are broken & burned out & the fate of far too many children in ‘supposed care’ has resulted in death.

With an election looming, this would be a great pro bono cause for Insight Communications - lead a lobby for an examination of this DEPT ( then we can move to Health)
Let’s look at the Books
Let’s work out Why the Feet that are Needed on the Ground, can’t be provided
Let’s examine what’s skimmed off, that can be mixed in

I’m appalled to see the decline in our society & why we don’t prioritise Tax $ toward a functioning family. That would remove so many $ $ needed to support Drug policing, drug / mental health hospitalisation,
Unemployment, Child Services, crime policing, jail support ...

I appreciate your thoughtful reply and agree!


the meat and potatoes of it is this...
'Lindsay' is most likely in another foster home.

While....her mother and little brothers are homed together.
Her mother has stated she wants her daughter.

The question remains...as overly 'simplistic' as it seems .....
If the department can not see it fit for lindsay to live with her mother.....why are those boys??

It really is black and white. She is fit to care for children or she isn't.

moo

 

[Serenanicole]

To change the subject. I’m not sure if anyone else has seen this video?

An attempted opportunistic abduction….it only goes for 1 min and 10 seconds.

So can you imagine what even 5 minutes could do? And there is no CCTV around like this atleast had.

Man tries to abduct a little girl from a car in Brisbane | Daily Mail Online


Every parent's worst nightmare: Chilling moment a man tries to abduct a little girl from the back of a car - after her mother left her alone for just 30 SECONDS

 

[Warshawski]

Maybe someone/s were watching from the Miller's house next door who were away??

Easy access from the fire trail IMO

yes, I’ve spent time thinking about all that. You’ll prob remember from early days I was suggesting how easy to grab / silence him.

But surely his scent would’ve been picked up outside the property.

That’s why I wonder about where the sniff search fully covered & where W scent was detected.
And even for that matter, the degree of training of the sniffer dog. I’d hazzard a guess that most dogs are fully trained to sniff drugs, blood etc. and I think they can detect from many meters away.

However, I think that’s a very different scenario than being given someone’s e.g. shirt to smell, then being told to go locate that same smell. Depending on the timespan, how much on the clothes, in his bed, his cuddly toys ...

If William was carried away, would his scent be picked up .

Doc, did they say at Coronial enquiry, when the sniffer dog was at house & surrounds ? How long after William disappeared

 

[CocoChanel]

ADMIN NOTIFICATION

This thread is closed again for review of dozens of reports of violations. Not sure when it might open again.

If you receive a note that says your post was removed, you have been part of the problem, even if you were only quoting a post that needed to be removed.

The members in this thread are all well aware of and expected to follow the Terms of Service of Websleuths that everyone agreed to when they joined. If you knowingly quote and reply to a post that triggers a personalized or snarky reply to another member, you too have contributed to this closure and any limit imposed on your posting privileges.

Our rules are really not that hard to comply with, and thousands of members are able to do that successfully every day. If you are finding the TOS too challenging to stay within, then our site is not for you. There are countless other forums on the internet that allow the type of posting you are doing, especially bickering and personalizing. Websleuths is INTENTIONALLY NOT ONE OF THEM. We are happy to help show you the door out of this forum if you find these rules are intolerable to you.

 

[Sillybilly]

Sorry ... it was just one week after William was placed with the foster parents. (Not months, not sure why I thought it was some months.)

This is from the case law ..... (we are not supposed to post the link, otherwise I would).

"Julian was removed from the care of his mother at 7 months’ age because of concerns that he was at risk of harm (associated with domestic violence and drug abuse), and placed with foster carers.
Julian’s sister, who is a year older than Julian and whom I shall call Sarah, had been removed from her mother’s care before Julian was born, and the Children’s Court had allocated parental responsibility for her to the Minister; she was later placed with the same carers as Julian, a week after he was.
Subsequently, having found that there was no realistic possibility of restoration to their parents, the Children’s Court made final orders allocating parental responsibility for Julian and Sarah to the Minister until they attain 18"

The court document was previously not allowed due to sleuthing of the minor sister.

In the document southaussie has been referring to and quoting from, the pseudonyms of Julian and Sarah are used.

Given the recent AVO is firmly believed to relate to William's sister, she is therefore being considered a victim and as the document is publicly available, I see no reason to not approve the court document found here.

 

[Sillybilly]

This sticks in my head too Couldbe - I hope investigators haven’t been too quick to dismiss Mr Chapman’s report.

As Laurel Street is in close proximity to the tennis club, without sleuthing Mr. Chapman, does anyone know which direction the vehicle was going on Laurel Street?

Google Maps

ETA: Found the answer.

Ronald Chapman was outside his Laurel Street home in Kendall on September 12, 2014, when he saw two cars travelling east, a senior detective told the NSW Coroners Court on Monday.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread is open again.

 

[Mauig’ma]

Yes that’s exactly

Do you mean - if the body had been in there, but was no longer there ?

If no blood etc, decomposition signs etc, I’m interested to.

what I am curious about

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

As Laurel Street is in close proximity to the tennis club, without sleuthing Mr. Chapman, does anyone know which direction the vehicle was going on Laurel Street?

Google Maps

ETA: Found the answer.

Ronald Chapman was outside his Laurel Street home in Kendall on September 12, 2014, when he saw two cars travelling east, a senior detective told the NSW Coroners Court on Monday.

I can never find articles that list an outcome of this- did someone come out and explain the child in the back of this car wearing the Spider-Man suit?

 

[Serenanicole]

I believe William was taken away in a car. That he ran down that driveway and someone has scooped him into a car and driven off. IMO.

 

[Serenanicole]

If my theory is correct, and William has gone down the driveway and been snatched at the driveway and taken away immediately in the car, his abductors/abductor did not have the privilege of seeing the adults nearby supervising him. In this sense, it was a huge risk that in the process of grabbing him the foster mother may have come out to look for William. I can imagine that whoever may have grabbed him have been watching him for several minutes, and feel safe enough whoever should have been watching him was caught up with some other activity. In my opinion only, I think the person was acting alone, hence nobody has come forward for the $1 million reward. All my opinion only.