Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #69

[FromGermany1]

Just taking "SouthAussie" discussion on how quickly children can be abducted further.

I can kind of understand why Jubelin was so interested in the neighbour PS.

He lives in the vicinity.
Has a reason to be walking around - which would not raise anyone's concern.
Goes for regular walks - could be aware of the comings and goings in the area - hearing children - so knowing possibly the earliest arrival - departure of occupants.
Had possibly seen both children at the previous Christmas street party - so may have even interacted with William - so was familiar and non threatening.



For a random abduction - opportunity plays the biggest factor. So PS certainly fits that criteria in my mind. MOO

At least he might have seen something going on at Benaroon Dr. #48 like cars going/coming, unknown/known people visiting, an atmosphere of nervous hustle and bustle. He seems to be someone, who is curious and has his eyes on everything - like stalkers just behave.

 

[Warshawski]

3. We have known about the drive since at least March 2019 (from the published video of a part of FM's walkthrough). The police have known since at least Day Six after William went missing, which is when the walkthrough was done.


The footage was released by police investigators on Wednesday (27/3/19) after it was shown at the inquest into the disappearance and suspected death of the three-year-old boy.
https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...o/news-story/c785efb1ae0d0864af718ca48b6775a6

IMO, the fact that we knew there had been a drive at some stage by the FFFC, doesn’t discount that question ‘Would it then be possible that the drive to look for him is what they have allegedly been charged as lying about?’

 

[Warshawski]

There was a video published in 2013, an experiment done in the UK about how quickly a child can be abducted - by a friendly acting person.

90 seconds is all it takes.

Out of the 9 young children approached by the friendly stranger, 7 of them willingly went with him.

I am just putting this here, in case others would like to read and watch about the experiment, because I know there are some who feel that William could not have been abducted in 10 minutes of being alone.

I think he could have been, if there was someone with a predilection for young children in the area at the time.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/p...d/news-story/bf8b90c47f233e3b2ff50c0aaa62a1d2

I agree. It’s very scary. .

I don’t discount the possibility of Abduction in William’s situation - however I just can’t get it to work for me because there is no information / evidence of anyone being in the area, who shouldn’t have been in the area. And the police apparently checked all neighbours & were satisfied of their non-involvement. I so wish I / someone could come up with a viable theory for that, as maybe we might then solve this.

 

[drsleuth]

I agree. It’s very scary. .

I don’t discount the possibility of Abduction in William’s situation - however I just can’t get it to work for me because there is no information / evidence of anyone being in the area, who shouldn’t have been in the area. And the police apparently checked all neighbours & were satisfied of their non-involvement. I so wish I / someone could come up with a viable theory for that, as maybe we might then solve this.

Maybe someone/s were watching from the Miller's house next door who were away??

Easy access from the fire trail IMO

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

It would have to go through some form of tribunal or court hearing but would be possible IMO. The BM would have to extensively prove they can safely, financially and ethically bring up all children, and thus may include kinship or other care options before this is the case.
Working with families

I’m not sure if the FFC would be able to get them back, depending on how these assault and AVO charges go. The mere fact the charges are there show disharmony in the carer arrangement IMO

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

Yes indeed TW it would be wonderful for something positive to come out of this tragedy.

Thank you. That’s what we all would want

 

[FromGermany1]

August 2019
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...y/news-story/e9edd7a3c4108acaf1b7a55c7b20d660

 

[Warshawski]

Curious how forensics could tell if a deceased body was in there.

Do you mean - if the body had been in there, but was no longer there ?

If no blood etc, decomposition signs etc, I’m interested to.

 

[Warshawski]

Pretty odd. Usually a phone will have phone numbers? (Now that's a novel concept.) Would love to know who those numbers actually belonged to.

You & me both SB. I find it a strange concept for ones Contacts - I’d never remember who’s who !

 

[Warshawski]

I think you’ve answered your own question. The cadaver didn’t pick up a scent because he didn’t die there?

Hi Lola, Cadaver dogs find human remains. I don’t believe William’s deceased body was at #48 when the cadaver search occurred.

 

[centred]

You & me both SB. I find it a strange concept for ones Contacts - I’d never remember who’s who !

I might have once thought that until a friend of mine who did a stage shows , was a magician entertainer blah blah one of his techniques he tried to teach me to remember numbers for a trick he did was to think of a person or an object to remind me of the number , I was useless but it worked for him. Just saying maybe a real estate agent or such would use these names by association IMO

 

[Warshawski]

How long does a body have to lay in a spot, before cadaver scent is detected?

Hi Kate, cadaver dogs react to the decomposition scent - as cells & organs start to break down. The earliest I believe would be close to 24 hrs after death

 

[sleepinoz]

Do you mean - if it was in there but no longer there ( to see )

If no blood, signs of decomposition etc, I’m interested too

I think it's called trace elements.

 

[Warshawski]

As told at Inquest by Ronald Chapman. As a long shot for whatever reason, could William been handed over to a person(s) by either MFC or FFC?

'I'm sure it was William Tyrrell': witness tells inquest he saw missing boy in car

“The Kendall resident Ronald Chapman was questioned about his claim that he saw a young boy wearing a Spider-Man suit the day William went missing in September 2014.

“I’m sure it was William Tyrrell that was in the vehicle,” he told the NSW coroner’s court.

“He just had his hands up on the window and was looking. His face wasn’t pressed against the glass but he was very close to the glass.

“He didn’t seem distressed or upset. Whether he knew the person I don’t know.”

This sticks in my head too Couldbe - I hope investigators haven’t been too quick to dismiss Mr Chapman’s report.

 

[Warshawski]

If say for instance, William did fall from the balcony and died, I imagine he would have been found fairly quickly.

the big question is, by whom ?

 

[Warshawski]

William Tyrell search: police say sniffer dogs have found no trace of boy

Article from 16th September 2014

"“It’s baffling that there’s no lead at this time,” Superintendent Paul Fehon told Macquarie Radio on Tuesday.

“We would have thought we would have had some indication of something at this stage of this very thorough search.”

Neither police sniffer dogs nor cadaver dogs had been able to pick up any sign of the boy, Fehon said"

IMO, that needs to be taken ‘with a grain of salt’ or in a different context - otherwise it’d be a case of 1) useless sniffer dogs or 2) a totally different investigation focused on William never getting out of the car on the night of family arrival at FFGM’s.

 

[Warshawski]

It’s possible you could use a phone but have multiple SIM cards that have different numbers for each. Depending on the carrier the phone will ping when switched on or used, but won’t give a location as accurate as a gps signal but can be worked out roughly by pings to nearby towers.
Or, it’s possible there were multiple phones as well.

IMO there could be information out there to suggest there were as many as 7 phones linked to the FFC’s, it would be handy if someone had a link, probably in 2016. If this is correct why the need for 7 phones?

IMO there’s a number of different ways to track or gain information from a mobile phone: tower cell pings, imei tracking, GPS, network call & text data.
and I think this has no doubt been quite thoroughly explored by this latest investigation team as they seem to be determined to leave no stone unturned in William’s cause.
I do wonder if the Coroner requested more depth in the information presented to her ..

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

IMO there’s a number of different ways to track or gain information from a mobile phone: tower cell pings, imei tracking, GPS, network call & text data.
and I think this has no doubt been quite thoroughly explored by this latest investigation team as they seem to be determined to leave no stone unturned in William’s cause.
I do wonder if the Coroner requested more depth in the information presented to her ..

Surely LE would’ve followed this up with investigation, doing a phone and telco search on both the FFC’s. It would show call charge records, dates connected/disconnected and the carrier. Then checked dates and locations as to where they were used.
I’d be surprised if this wasn’t done IMO.

 

[HilaryHormone]

'my position' is.....
Either she is a fit mother or she isnt.

She is either capable of caring for children (and if she has the kids they must think so) or not.

Not some...This one..but not that one....wtah??

Your post clarifies exactly my point...CLEAR AS MUD red tape.

moo

It can happen for a multitude of reasons. Mostly where a parent hasn’t made positive lifestyle changes or engaged fully with services. People can and do change and grow. Sadly, they’re not always willing or capable of doing so in a timeframe that suits a developing child. William was approx. 7-10 months old when he was removed, it seems it would have been sooner if they hadn’t absconded with him. That indicates there were real safeguarding concerns, a lack of insight as to the child’s needs. Desperation from the parents’ for sure, but IMO that was motivated by their own needs and desire to resist intervention.

When a parent who has previously had children removed becomes pregnant again, there tends to be pre-birth involvement and supports put in place. It seems that William’s Mother managed to demonstrate she was capable. Assessment would have considered historical concerns, but would have focussed on the circumstances at that time, and it appears the risks were greatly reduced by the time the younger siblings were born. Meanwhile, William and his older sister’s reality and experiences remained valid and their ‘journey’ continued as a result.

Child protection is complex and fraught with bureaucracy and red tape, I agree, but the welfare of a child and the potential risk of continued exposure to developmentally damaging circumstances is always paramount at the time.

Your position is very simplistic whereas the actual circumstances were clearly very complex based on what information is available IMO.

 

[LIBPOP]

Maybe this wasn’t normal 7 years ago, but further to the inference above that the FCs had 7 phones linked to them I’ve just counted that between my husband and I (accounting for the kids too) we have 6 devices between us that can make calls (3 iphones, 2 ipads and an applewatch).