Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #23

[deugirtni]

Stormyseas when you say "the individual closely related to WT, who seems to be so elusive", do you mean the person mentioned in the interview with NC below? I took it that he was referring to a paedophile ring and not witness protection or drug/gang related.

William Tyrrell: Missing toddler’s grandmother has lost all hope of finding him alive

EXCLUSIVE Taylor Auerbach, The Daily Telegraph
February 16, 2016 12:00am

Ms Collins regularly finds herself lying awake at night, staring at the ceiling and wondering what happened to her grandson. She has her theories, but for legal reasons they can’t be printed.

“Whatever they’ve done, they’ve done very well,” she says, again choking up.

“It’s just a damn mess. This is the best it gets. It’s just like this every day.”

Another family member, who was also present for the interview, believes the tiny superhero has fallen victim to a paedophile ring.

“Everything I read in the media about a paedophile ring — it’s like reading a book of what I thought happened,” he says.

Another of William’s closest relatives, who can’t be identified, suffered a chilling premonition the day he disappeared from the home on Benaroon Drive in Kendall.

“(He) got up to go to work and I looked up to the sky and the sky was black. Something threw him off so he went back inside and just sat out in the back garden,” Ms Collins says.

“He couldn’t believe that he was just gone, how does that happen? After that everything just went black.

“Now he’s just vanished off the face of the earth.

“How does that happen?”

---

BBM: UBM: There are a quite a few cryptic statements in this interview. Another family member who was present at the interview believes that William was taken by a paedophile ring, yet NC doesn't elaborate on this line of thought.

Yet another of William's closest relatives, who can't be named for legal reasons (IMO William's bio father) had a chilling premonition the morning William disappeared. Natalie looked up at the sky and the sky was black and that apparently threw him off. WTF! Something is very off IMO.

NC has her own theory(ies), and they likely don't include anything about a pedophile ring, so perhaps that is why she doesn't elaborate on that line of thought?

I agree that NC is speaking of her son, WT's bio dad, when another of WT's closest relatives is mentioned.

I think it is obvious that bio mom and bio dad were not together at the time when this happened to WT. I believe bio mom went on to have 2 more children with another man. Not sure if she was still with that man at the time of WT's disappearance. Imo only, I believe that the paternal grandmother (why is she able to be named as grandma, if all of this other stuff is so secret?) and the bio dad (her son) believe that WT's disappearance has something to do with bio mom.

If we took that a step further, and considered possibilities... I am wondering - where is the outrage from bio mom? If any of us had had our children taken from us, for whatever reason, by the government, and placed into another family's home... and this horrible thing happened... what would we be doing? Posting pretty pictures on FB? Or contacting newspapers in an outrage, demanding answers as to how this could happen, how they could allow this to happen, demanding to know what exactly is being done to find him, and etc.? This is a pretty major bad PR event for the government's children's services department.. why isn't she pursuing that, capitalizing upon it.. etc? If they take someone's child to better 'protect' them, and then they end up losing the child when they turn their backs for 5 minutes.. wouldn't there be a huge amount of untamed outrage? The seeming lack of outrage really confuses me. jmo.

 

[frogwell]

NC has her own theory(ies), and they likely don't include anything about a pedophile ring, so perhaps that is why she doesn't elaborate on that line of thought?

I agree that NC is speaking of her son, WT's bio dad, when another of WT's closest relatives is mentioned.

I think it is obvious that bio mom and bio dad were not together at the time when this happened to WT. I believe bio mom went on to have 2 more children with another man. Not sure if she was still with that man at the time of WT's disappearance. Imo only, I believe that the paternal grandmother (why is she able to be named as grandma, if all of this other stuff is so secret?) and the bio dad (her son) believe that WT's disappearance has something to do with bio mom.

If we took that a step further, and considered possibilities... I am wondering - where is the outrage from bio mom? If any of us had had our children taken from us, for whatever reason, by the government, and placed into another family's home... and this horrible thing happened... what would we be doing? Posting pretty pictures on FB? Or contacting newspapers in an outrage, demanding answers as to how this could happen, how they could allow this to happen, demanding to know what exactly is being done to find him, and etc.? This is a pretty major bad PR event for the government's children's services department.. why isn't she pursuing that, capitalizing upon it.. etc? If they take someone's child to better 'protect' them, and then they end up losing the child when they turn their backs for 5 minutes.. wouldn't there be a huge amount of untamed outrage? The seeming lack of outrage really confuses me. jmo.

My understanding is that the gag orders in place are for all family, friends and the media. It is in place from the government. Even if the media wanted to report this part of the story, they cannot by law. IMO

 

[Lou Lou]

No gag order in hell could shut me up if my child was missing... no matter Who tried or What circumstance! Unless, if maybe I had a guilty conscience? That may bring the mouse out in me?

Blessings to you William, and to all those who love n miss you. :blowkiss:

 

[ParaK]

It confuses me too, the seemingly lack of outrage but we have only seen so little.. And gag orders on everyone however NC can be named, be shown and interviewed etc it is bizarre to me anyway. But by all accounts William seemed very happy and content from what we have seen so maybe she thought he was in the best place he could be given the unknown circumstances. I could understand not holding blame against FF or police etc as bad things happen but my sole outrage would be focused on "where is my son and what happened to him". I would be a mess if I had no idea what happened to my child. But trying to remember the faces we may see on SM often don't reflect what is going on behind the face that is being shown? Maybe she is pounding on doors and demanding answers?

 

[crabstick]

People are sad. I dont think I see people in rage when their kids go on tv, mostly. Some are heavily sedated to handle the stress.

I think people are under gag orders when there is the potential to incriminate themselves in potentially neglect etc. Police want people focused on William, not presumption of he is ok, or off somewhere etc. They dont want the public to switch off. At the same time, I dont think they want aspects of the case too public for any jury that might be present for the purposes of a fair trial. Sub justice aspects we obviously are not privvy to right now.

Applicating a sense of rage with the finger of blame could have legal implications for any party. Tongues bitten with all the range of emotions that come with such frustration and sadness of a missing child.

It confuses me too, the seemingly lack of outrage but we have only seen so little.. And gag orders on everyone however NC can be named, be shown and interviewed etc it is bizarre to me anyway. But by all accounts William seemed very happy and content from what we have seen so maybe she thought he was in the best place he could be given the unknown circumstances. I could understand not holding blame against FF or police etc as bad things happen but my sole outrage would be focused on "where is my son and what happened to him". I would be a mess if I had no idea what happened to my child. But trying to remember the faces we may see on SM often don't reflect what is going on behind the face that is being shown? Maybe she is pounding on doors and demanding answers?

 

[Wexford]

My understanding is that the gag orders in place are for all family, friends and the media. It is in place from the government. Even if the media wanted to report this part of the story, they cannot by law. IMO

Coming from the government is what we have been led to believe. Personally I have never believed it though.

 

[Makara]

It confuses me too, the seemingly lack of outrage but we have only seen so little.. And gag orders on everyone however NC can be named, be shown and interviewed etc it is bizarre to me anyway. But by all accounts William seemed very happy and content from what we have seen so maybe she thought he was in the best place he could be given the unknown circumstances. I could understand not holding blame against FF or police etc as bad things happen but my sole outrage would be focused on "where is my son and what happened to him". I would be a mess if I had no idea what happened to my child. But trying to remember the faces we may see on SM often don't reflect what is going on behind the face that is being shown? Maybe she is pounding on doors and demanding answers?

BBM: Yes it is strange considering she is also the grandmother of William's sister.

 

[sosocurious]

My understanding is that the gag orders in place are for all family, friends and the media. It is in place from the government. Even if the media wanted to report this part of the story, they cannot by law. IMO

A police facts sheet, presented to the court last week, said Mr Spedding was “in negotiations … to regain access to” the children before his arrest.
“Police hold serious concerns for the safety of these children if the accused is once more given access,” the document said.
The boys’ mother said yesterday she raised the allegations surrounding the alleged 1987 abuse involving Mr Spedding during a meeting with state authorities roughly 2½ years ago.
The boys’ grandfather said he did not know what would now happen to the children, and had been told only that the authorities were “looking into it”.
“I am very concerned about what may have happened to my grandchildren,” he said.
Neither he nor the boys’ mother can be named for legal reasons that also restrict what can be said about the children themselves. The boys’ mother said she had been warned not to speak to the press.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...n/news-story/dc162954d67a5c014031cb4e59bfc735

But she did speak to the media regardless of the warning.
I wonder if there were any consequences.

 

[Warshawski]

I'm a long time lurker but just wanted to clarify a few points about foster care. When a child is removed from a Bio parent short term orders are granted & the bio parent is automatically granted weekly access to the child. The Bio parents ALWAYS have visitation rights, as long as they want to be in the child's life.
If it is decided the child cannot be returned to the bio parent long term orders are granted, & this can take 12-18 months. At this stage the visitation changes to whatever FACS recommend which is usually 3-4 times per year.
Also, If William was going to be adopted, that could only happen if the bio mum agreed to it, or if no contact was made with the child for 12 months. The process then takes 3-4 years, & the bio mum still has ongoing visitation rights.

thanks for for the clarification Louis. My exposure is limited but this does answer and accommodate some of my thoughts.

 

[Warshawski]

NC has her own theory(ies), and they likely don't include anything about a pedophile ring, so perhaps that is why she doesn't elaborate on that line of thought?

I agree that NC is speaking of her son, WT's bio dad, when another of WT's closest relatives is mentioned.

I think it is obvious that bio mom and bio dad were not together at the time when this happened to WT. I believe bio mom went on to have 2 more children with another man. Not sure if she was still with that man at the time of WT's disappearance. Imo only, I believe that the paternal grandmother (why is she able to be named as grandma, if all of this other stuff is so secret?) and the bio dad (her son) believe that WT's disappearance has something to do with bio mom.

If we took that a step further, and considered possibilities... I am wondering - where is the outrage from bio mom? If any of us had had our children taken from us, for whatever reason, by the government, and placed into another family's home... and this horrible thing happened... what would we be doing? Posting pretty pictures on FB? Or contacting newspapers in an outrage, demanding answers as to how this could happen, how they could allow this to happen, demanding to know what exactly is being done to find him, and etc.? This is a pretty major bad PR event for the government's children's services department.. why isn't she pursuing that, capitalizing upon it.. etc? If they take someone's child to better 'protect' them, and then they end up losing the child when they turn their backs for 5 minutes.. wouldn't there be a huge amount of untamed outrage? The seeming lack of outrage really confuses me. jmo.

Thank you D, I do appreciate your points, however, I would input to the point that if we are to believe that NC is the paternal grandmother ( as emphatically implied to me previously) then I would suggest - and ask the question - what is the Bio Father doing in all of this ?

How about we give off the judgement of Bio Mother v Bio Father.

How about we consider what each of them may be going through (given they have both had their child / children removed from them)

How about we consider - as much as we sleuth for William.

One day, hopefully, there will be a happy ending to what presently seems inexplicable.

 

[Warshawski]

A police facts sheet, presented to the court last week, said Mr Spedding was “in negotiations … to regain access to” the children before his arrest.
“Police hold serious concerns for the safety of these children if the accused is once more given access,” the document said.
The boys’ mother said yesterday she raised the allegations surrounding the alleged 1987 abuse involving Mr Spedding during a meeting with state authorities roughly 2½ years ago.
The boys’ grandfather said he did not know what would now happen to the children, and had been told only that the authorities were “looking into it”.
“I am very concerned about what may have happened to my grandchildren,” he said.
Neither he nor the boys’ mother can be named for legal reasons that also restrict what can be said about the children themselves. The boys’ mother said she had been warned not to speak to the press.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...n/news-story/dc162954d67a5c014031cb4e59bfc735

But she did speak to the media regardless of the warning.
I wonder if there were any consequences.

i can't open/ road this, but my first thoughts are "good on you" if for no other reason than that I believe 'honesty is the best policy'.

 

[sosocurious]

dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseCRI?CaseID=88201335

Ballarat Court
20 October 2016 - 10:00am
Committal Mention

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Stormyseas when you say "the individual closely related to WT, who seems to be so elusive", do you mean the person mentioned in the interview with NC below? I took it that he was referring to a paedophile ring and not witness protection or drug/gang related.

William Tyrrell: Missing toddler’s grandmother has lost all hope of finding him alive

EXCLUSIVE Taylor Auerbach, The Daily Telegraph
February 16, 2016 12:00am

Ms Collins regularly finds herself lying awake at night, staring at the ceiling and wondering what happened to her grandson. She has her theories, but for legal reasons they can’t be printed.

“Whatever they’ve done, they’ve done very well,” she says, again choking up.

“It’s just a damn mess. This is the best it gets. It’s just like this every day.”

Another family member, who was also present for the interview, believes the tiny superhero has fallen victim to a paedophile ring.

“Everything I read in the media about a paedophile ring — it’s like reading a book of what I thought happened,” he says.

Another of William’s closest relatives, who can’t be identified, suffered a chilling premonition the day he disappeared from the home on Benaroon Drive in Kendall.

“(He) got up to go to work and I looked up to the sky and the sky was black. Something threw him off so he went back inside and just sat out in the back garden,” Ms Collins says.

“He couldn’t believe that he was just gone, how does that happen? After that everything just went black.

“Now he’s just vanished off the face of the earth.

“How does that happen?”

---

BBM: UBM: There are a quite a few cryptic statements in this interview. Another family member who was present at the interview believes that William was taken by a paedophile ring, yet NC doesn't elaborate on this line of thought.

Yet another of William's closest relatives, who can't be named for legal reasons (IMO William's bio father) had a chilling premonition the morning William disappeared. Natalie looked up at the sky and the sky was black and that apparently threw him off. WTF! Something is very off IMO.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...l/news-story/46b94ee67cf7e7c2cb4ba6a276388da8

“I remember standing there in tears watching him run up and down the street, calling out William’s name with sweat pouring off him. It was heartbreaking,” she said.

“The longer it goes on, the worse it gets. Never once did we think that we wouldn’t find him here.”

Mrs Wilson also told how William’s father frantically searched her yard over and over again into the night.

“He was just walking around crying. He kept asking me if there was anywhere

else he could’ve been hiding here,” Mrs Wilson said. “He just looked devastated.”


I remember the FF described as being "freaked out" also from start (not only the bio father).

 

[crabstick]

For a child to be removed, there is an incredible risk to the childs well being. To be removed from both parents, even when both persons are separated, there must still be a security risk to that child. Removing a child from their family is not a small matter. That child has been abused or at great risk.

I'm a long time lurker but just wanted to clarify a few points about foster care. When a child is removed from a Bio parent short term orders are granted & the bio parent is automatically granted weekly access to the child. The Bio parents ALWAYS have visitation rights, as long as they want to be in the child's life.
If it is decided the child cannot be returned to the bio parent long term orders are granted, & this can take 12-18 months. At this stage the visitation changes to whatever FACS recommend which is usually 3-4 times per year.
Also, If William was going to be adopted, that could only happen if the bio mum agreed to it, or if no contact was made with the child for 12 months. The process then takes 3-4 years, & the bio mum still has ongoing visitation rights.

This may mean any of the parties making public slanderous theory may be subject to a writ. So all the gags may also be, don't attract a legal case against you.

William Tyrrell: Missing toddler’s grandmother has lost all hope of finding him alive
Ms Collins regularly finds herself lying awake at night, staring at the ceiling and wondering what happened to her grandson. She has her theories, but for legal reasons they can’t be printed.

 

[crabstick]

So what sort of people would drive these cars? They are family cars? Particular demographic?

Both white and grey cars. Colours commonly used by criminals as they are common colours with no unique distinguishing features.

 

[Bohemian]

dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseCRI?CaseID=88201335

Ballarat Court
20 October 2016 - 10:00am
Committal Mention

Thanks soso *advertiser censored*

 

[Wexford]

[/B]
i can't open/ road this, but my first thoughts are "good on you" if for no other reason than that I believe 'honesty is the best policy'.

try this link Warshawski: http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...g/news-story/2a8a51819720492213582b8d70dc61da

(fyi I just google a line out of the quotes from the story and another story will come up same wording but not behind a paywall)

 

[Deleted member 102539]

try this link Warshawski: http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...g/news-story/2a8a51819720492213582b8d70dc61da

(fyi I just google a line out of the quotes from the story and another story will come up same wording but not behind a paywall)

Out of the link:
http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...g/news-story/2a8a51819720492213582b8d70dc61da

His lawyer said the 63-year-old “will deny these allegations until his final breath”.

I'm always hoping the VICTIMS (in 1987 two little girls) won't give up until THEIR last breath!

 

[Wexford]

Just out of interest...in the ACA story, was it ever stated why they interviewed KL? Was it because she came forward and said 'hey weird co-incidences here, interview me' or was it because someone else discovered the links between her and BS and AJ and spilled them to ACA. On the surface one could say it was about money....but if you consider the latter it opens up a range of other possibilities too.

 

[sosocurious]

Just out of interest...in the ACA story, was it ever stated why they interviewed KL? Was it because she came forward and said 'hey weird co-incidences here, interview me' or was it because someone else discovered the links between her and BS and AJ and spilled them to ACA. On the surface one could say it was about money....but if you consider the latter it opens up a range of other possibilities too.

Well from memory it was said that the police paid her a surprise visit just days before. KL thought it necessary she contacted ACA because she thought Australia should know the police had spoken to her.

The links? The car? The fridges? The phones?

For a "long time" police have known about these cars but have now, almost 12 months after William disappeared, released the information to the public.
"There is a strategy behind when we release information," Detective Inspector Gary Jubelin said......................

"The people driving these cars have not come forward to police," Detective Inspector Jubelin said.
"But it's important in saying that we have received information we are following up about who might be owners of these vehicles."
He would not elaborate on what links investigators had made between the cars and "other information that has come to us in recent times"..........................

"Suspicion comes in many forms," Detective Inspector Jubelin said.
"If it is a case during the broad media coverage, someone changes the subject or someone talks incessantly about it ... pass this information onto police and we will address those doubts."
Police stressed it was not suggested the cars were linked to William's disappearance but the vehicles needed to eliminated from the homicide squad investigation.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...nths-after-disappearance-20150907-gjgpr1.html

It is a tangled web.
The police are not sitting around doing nothing.
imo