Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - # 7

[inspector rex]

I wonder if the fosterparents are on septic or sewer at their own residence. In the beginning, people were enquiring as to whether WT even made the trip to grandmother's house in the first place. Everything about this case is so weird.. surprise visit.. arriving in the evening.. first thing next morning, he disappears into thin air from a neighbourhood with expansive yards that would provide an easy view for any stranger lurking or driving about, yet nothing is seen or heard from anywhere, not exactly a target area for a ped, and not exactly a route well travelled that someone would be driving just by chance.. dad just happens to be out at the time.. dogs don't catch any scent of him.. not a trace is ever found of him anywhere... and now I'm wondering if septic was ever pumped?

Add-on: I just wanted to add that in the Noah Thomas case, LE did not want to believe, imho, that the parents had anything to do with his disappearance either (they were urging the public not to jump to conclusions, and stating how devastated the family was, etc).. the septic lid was on, and the sod was on top, as it should be, so why check it, since, if he had fallen in, the lid would be ajar, the sod would not be neatly back on top, if you aren't suspecting the parents? But after the searches started and found nothing, dogs found no trace past the driveway, finally on day 5 they apparently made the decision to pump that tank, and look what they found. Just for sheer peace of mind, that would be the first thing I'd want to be done. MOO

No. The parents live in an upmarket inner city suburb of Sydney.

 

[Eloise]

The police verify the photo of WT on the balcony really was taken the morning of his disappearance too.

He was there. It wasn't the parents. They've been cleared.

 

[Hbayne]

someone suggested that the foster parents may have sceptic tank at there own home - highly unlikely suburbs around Sydney ! Foster parents have been cleared and photo verified. Spedding is still as far as we know a poi and obviously for a very clear reason.

 

[bearbear]

I wonder if the fosterparents are on septic or sewer at their own residence. In the beginning, people were enquiring as to whether WT even made the trip to grandmother's house in the first place. Everything about this case is so weird.. surprise visit.. arriving in the evening.. first thing next morning, he disappears into thin air from a neighbourhood with expansive yards that would provide an easy view for any stranger lurking or driving about, yet nothing is seen or heard from anywhere, not exactly a target area for a ped, and not exactly a route well travelled that someone would be driving just by chance.. dad just happens to be out at the time.. dogs don't catch any scent of him.. not a trace is ever found of him anywhere... and now I'm wondering if septic was ever pumped?

Add-on: I just wanted to add that in the Noah Thomas case, LE did not want to believe, imho, that the parents had anything to do with his disappearance either (they were urging the public not to jump to conclusions, and stating how devastated the family was, etc).. the septic lid was on, and the sod was on top, as it should be, so why check it, since, if he had fallen in, the lid would be ajar, the sod would not be neatly back on top, if you aren't suspecting the parents? But after the searches started and found nothing, dogs found no trace past the driveway, finally on day 5 they apparently made the decision to pump that tank, and look what they found. Just for sheer peace of mind, that would be the first thing I'd want to be done. MOO

yes, i agree, everything should be ruled out.
maybe by now police know hes not in a septic tank though and just waiting for their poi to lead them to william?

 

[Eloise]

Guys who are speculating on of the parents have septic ... They live in Sydney, a city of over four million people. It's densely populated and very much on sewer service! And not even the outskirts, they live in a well established, well to do suburb. Killara is definitely not on septic.

 

[fruity]

Can people please specify if they are talking about the foster or biological parents?

 

[Eloise]

Either way family has been ruled out by police. Multiple times.

I believe the rest of WTs family are also Sydney residents. Can't say more here.

 

[butterstick]

Yes family ruled out. We have to accept that, not knowing all the details. The police are all over this, and the family would of come under a lot of attention.

 

[Eloise]

Exactly. While its natural to suspect the family, the police have made it clear often they're not under suspicion in this case. I've always figured that means they really actually do know something that hasn't been released publicly that comprehensively rules them out.

 

[fruity]

I don't suspect either family, It would just be helpful for people to say whether they're talking about the biological or foster family when they're talking about where people live etc. It is confusing!

 

[Eloise]

I avoid mentioning it because are we at the point where its been confirmed in the MSM that he's even a foster child?

I know there was one report where he was referred to as a foster child or 'his foster parents' or something; but then they released the statement from "Mr and Mrs Tyrell".

I'm sure the reason they haven't been explicit about no family (of any kind) being under suspicion is the same reason why the family can't be talked about. I think its about protecting the identity of WTs sister who was with him that day.

(potentially among other things)

 

[thylacine7]

It could also be (if that's the situation) because it's illegal for the media to identify a child as being in foster care, without express permission of the director of Child Protection Services etc etc; all of the states'/territories' foster handbooks say something of that nature, so if that's indeed applicable to William, it would explain the lack of family in the media; neither family could really be identified for that reason, hence all the talk just being 'his family' (convenient too as it could be applied to both bio and foster without being confusing).

eg page 23 of WA's Foster Care manual (first one I could find but they're all similar). See page 22 for further info that might not seem immediately obvious, ie confidentiality of that child's background info, all of which must be returned to the child's case worker when the child is no longer under the foster parents' care etc.

On that note (who knows whether it's OT), since having kids I'm a very changed man, and I'd love to be able be a foster parent, but no way til my kids are older (some real horror stories out there, and it just wouldn't be fair until my kids are old enough or moved out), and even then I'm not sure I have the temperament, you'd really have to weather some severe storms, takes a real kind of hero and I'm not too proud to admit I doubt I could cope... not so much with parting with a beloved placement child, hard as that would be, but those that might test you in every way possible, probing to see if you can, despite their efforts, provide the love of which they've been denied so many times (I remember one story of a kid who broke every window in his carers' home, and tormented their pets, but underneath it all he was just testing to see if they'd love him no matter what). Example 1 , Example 2 etc.

(thylacine666 here, by the way, back from my self-imposed exile, with a slightly different username... I've been reading the whole time, and I decided I wanted to contribute again and accept the rules to do so, frustrating as they may be, ie inability to discuss family - often involved, though not in this case - or social media - major method of sleuthing these days - meaning all we can discuss is what's in MSM meaning web SLEUTHS becomes somewhat of a misnomer. I understand and accept the reasoning behind it though, always did, just became infuriated due to becoming too emotionally invested in this and some other cases)

 

[Mel 1303]

Welcome back Thylacine :seeya:

 

[loveamystery]

There was an autistic young man that went missing on a camping trip earlier this week. I haven't been following, but it did say his parents didn't want to be identified. It would be highly unusual in the States if the parents of a missing child did not speak out. Is this the norm in Australia?

I really think William was with his birth parents and there is no foster family. JMO

 

[hockeymom4]

I don't suspect either family, It would just be helpful for people to say whether they're talking about the biological or foster family when they're talking about where people live etc. It is confusing!

Maybe I am confused, but the families can't be sleuthed. So discussing them in details, work, live, cars, etc. can't be done anyway.

 

[deugirtni]

There is much to be potentially hidden when so much is hidden to begin with. Normally when a child disappears into thin air, it is pretty standard, rightly or wrongly, for the parents in charge of said child at the time of disappearance to be looked at. (See bottom paragraph for one link n regard to how rare stranger abduction is.) Not meaning to hurt anyone's feelings, but it is a fact.

It (whichever situation/story) is plastered all over the news. Including names. Then.. tips start rolling in to police, anonymously or otherwise. People who know information about perhaps the people involved, or the place, or the vehicle, or whatever the case may be, are able to come forward to police with any information they may have, that may or may not be relevant. How often have you heard police ask for anyone with ANY information to come forward, even if they think it isn't important, because it could potentially be a missing link that blows open the entire case. It can only take one seemingly small clue to get that ball rolling sometimes, and end up in effect, solving the case.

In WT's case, because everything is super-secret, the lack of information precludes the coming forth of information, which could in fact be important, could in fact be that one clue to get things moving. For example, say the people in charge of missing child were from a different area, not known at all in the area where the child actually went missing. What if there are people in the area where they actually DO live, that might have come forward with something, if only they'd known? But they may never associate this highly publicized news story of missing child, with the people they happen to know of in their own area, or something they may have seen,... because the names and photos are never released publicly. There is no way for them to make a potential connection.

As unfair as it is for the poor parents who experience a tragedy like this in their lives, the same for a husband who loses his wife to an unnatural occurrence, ... it is usually at least looked at, as to whether there could potentially be family involvement, and unfortunately, that only makes sense.

While police have said they have 'cleared' whomever, I would love to know 'how' they cleared anyone so quickly. I would think that anyone and everyone who was there that day would *also* be considered a POI, at least until such time as it is known for sure what happened exactly to this boy. How could the people present that day be considered anything else until it is known what happened? A POI is merely a person of interest, a person that may have information, a person worth talking to about the case, a person to keep in mind should a potential question arise that perhaps that person could answer. A POI is not a suspect.

In poor Noah's case, before he was found, police were *repeatedly* urging the gossip, rumors, etc., to stop (much like in this case on some venues), and letting people know that his parents were just absolutley devastated by his missing status. Police didn't want that kind of communicating going on, the family felt bad enough as it was. If police had still not pumped that septic tank, they would still be telling people to lay off.

In little William's case, there are many unanswered questions, all kinds of discrepancies, and it is only by virtue of a legal point that his family cannot be named, otherwise the family would be subject to the exact same things as every other family who suffers such misfortune, right or wrong. Personally, I would hate to think that something could potentially be being missed because of the secrecy due to a legal point.

In regard to the photograph on the phone, I'm not aware that police even confiscated the phone to perform forensic IT examination by duly qualified computer forensic professionals. It is a very specialized science. Wouldn't that need to be done in order to verify for sure? Did they do it? Or was the photo merely said to have been verified by an officer who perhaps looked at the phone and confirmed that the date and time on the photo/phone said the appropriate things? Somewhat similar to the septic tank being looked at, but yet not pumped out.

I should hope that people would be more concerned about William being found, one way or another, than about anything else. Sleuthing is what we do here, one person's thought may spark other thoughts, even perhaps clues, that could be that one important one. Child abduction by a stranger is very rare according to statistics everywhere. Not to say that it never happens, nor that it did or didn't happen in this case, but every possibility should be looked at, and not just the rare possibilities. Here is one link in regard to statistics involving child abductions, there are many: http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/stranger-child-abductions-actually-very-rare-130514.htm

 

[Eloise]

I agree totally. But, rules are rules. Can't sleuth the family here, and just about every post that has even touched on questioning anything and everything to do with family members has been memory holed. /shrug

 

[catswhiskers]

The article linked by deugirtni above about the rarity of stranger abductions is a little ambiguous I think. Until the last 2 paragraphs I got the impression it was more about allaying parents fears that their children were at risk of being abducted at any given time. It ends up citing stats that are supposed to prove that most abductions are familial anyway - but I take those stats with a grain of salt. They could possibly include lots of instances where a non-custodial parent has taken their child for some period of time - which is not something to make light of at all, but very different to the evil we associate with stranger abduction.
Maybe it's just my age showing, but I grew up in the days of the little Mackay sisters abduction and murder, Marilyn Wallman's disappearance and have lived to hear of lots of other terrifying child abductions and murders over the decades right here in Queensland alone. They have all been high profile and all have involved opportunistic strangers, and some remain unsolved. I definitely don't look at parents of missing children as being the most likely culprits.

 

[Eloise]

Some stats - US based.

http://www.parents.com/kids/safety/stranger-safety/child-abduction-facts/

Based on the identity of the perpetrator, there are three distinct types of kidnapping: kidnapping by a relative of the victim or "family kidnapping" (49 percent), kidnapping by an acquaintance of the victim or "acquaintance kidnapping" (27 percent), and kidnapping by a stranger to the victim or "stranger kidnapping" (24 percent).

Only about one child out of each 10,000 missing children reported to the local police is not found alive. However, about 20 percent of the children reported to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in nonfamily abductions are not found alive.

So - kidnapping more likely to be by a family member BUT when it's not a family, it's more likely to end in the child's death.

Also

In 80 percent of abductions by strangers, the first contact between the child and the abductor occurs within a quarter mile of the child's home.
Most potential abductors grab their victims on the street or try to lure them into their vehicles.
About 74 percent of the victims of nonfamily child abduction are girls.
Acting quickly is critical. Seventy-four percent of abducted children who are ultimately murdered are dead within three hours of the abduction.

 

[catswhiskers]

Yeah those are the types of figures I was talking about Eloise. I'm thinking that some of those familial kidnappings are resolved fairly quickly or maybe don't even make it onto the evening news. Of course then we have those that do get some media coverage (am thinking of those little twin girls that were allegedly taken by their non-custodial mum last year - and are still missing), but I think the ones we end up reading about and discussing here are usually those taken by strangers. Sian Kingi and Daniel Morcombe were both from within an hour or so of my area, so their's are the sort of cases that spring to my mind when I think about child abductions and murders.