AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023

[Soulmagent]

IMO it was a sense of pride to hunt certain humans as an animal. He full heartedly thinks everyone will pat him on the back.

IMO its the same motivation as the El Paso walmart guy.

I do not have a hard time believing he was afraid ,as i know lot of people in their 70's and it seems to be often they have a lot of anxiety relating to their aging and loss of independence ,not all of them but it is a thing and often overlooked and mishandled by caregivers or by family IMO.
Like I dont see my mom as old or aging , I see my mom 5 plus times a week and work with her for 24 hours a week. I dont see her as an aging woman ,but My boss was worried about something and it made me step back an look. My mom is concerned about her security . This is the driving issue of her most honest self.

I can see this man being afraid and I dont think the body being 150 yards from his porch suggests that the 74 year old was running or hunting down the illegal border crosser. Also

 

[Cryptic]

I wonder if one of the group of migrants panicked when Kelly fired the warning shots and inadvertently shot C-B in the back. JMO.

Clearly possible- providing that Kelly can convince a jury that the group of armed migrants existed.

Kelly has evidently given several versions of the events leading up to the shooting. This may impact his credibility to successfully present a "on my word alone" type defense.

 

[PriorTheCreator]

Clearly possible- providing that Kelly can convince a jury that the group of armed migrants existed.

Kelly has evidently given several versions of the events leading up to the shooting. This may impact his credibility to present a "by my word alone" type defense.

I highly doubt there is any proof of these claims. The only gun that was found was the one Kelly admitted to shooting at people over 300 feet away. Is his eyesight so good that a 72+ year old man can make out all the details of people 300ft away? Doubt it.

Especially when his own story is changing.

 

[RANCH]

Clearly possible- providing that Kelly can convince a jury that the group of armed migrants existed.

Kelly has evidently given several versions of the events leading up to the shooting. This may impact his credibility to successfully present a "on my word alone" type defense.

The state also has to convince a jury that the bullet recovered from C-B's body came from Kelly's gun and not someone else's.

Reasonable doubt. JMO.

 

[PriorTheCreator]

The state also has to convince a jury that the bullet recovered from C-B's body came from Kelly's gun and not someone else's.

Reasonable doubt. JMO.

We have the science to do this easily

 

[Tutter]

True proponents of SYG should be against its claim here. There was never a threat to this man before he killed someone in cold blood

I do not have a hard time believing he was afraid ,as i know lot of people in their 70's and it seems to be often they have a lot of anxiety relating to their aging and loss of independence ,not all of them but it is a thing and often overlooked and mishandled by caregivers or by family IMO.
Like I dont see my mom as old or aging , I see my mom 5 plus times a week and work with her for 24 hours a week. I dont see her as an aging woman ,but My boss was worried about something and it made me step back an look. My mom is concerned about her security . This is the driving issue of her most honest self.

I can see this man being afraid and I dont think the body being 150 yards from his porch suggests that the 74 year old was running or hunting down the illegal border crosser. Also

He has lived there for a long time, if I recall correctly. Decades. I can’t know of course, but I am guessing this isn’t an uncommon occurrence for him; to have many illegal border crossings happen on his property. Has it been worse lately, more aggressive border crossers? Again, I can’t know. I wasn’t there. But mr Kelly has no criminal record, so he has not fired shots before, As far as I know. I will take him at his words that he felt threatened and that this time was diferent for some reason.

we weren’t there, we can’t know his experience.

 

[Soulmagent]

I highly doubt there is any proof of these claims. The only gun that was found was the one Kelly admitted to shooting at people over 300 feet away. Is his eyesight so good that a 72+ year old man can make out all the details of people 300ft away? Doubt it.

Especially when his own story is changing.

It doesnt seem odd to me that they only found the homeowners gun. The homeowner gave that to them when he told them where the body was ,that they did not see. If they missed a whole body..they aint got a hope in heck of finding the gun.

 

[RANCH]

While less serious than first-degree murder, second-degree murder still carries heavy criminal penalties. Second-degree murder is written in Arizona law at A.R.S. 13-1104. Second-degree murder occurs when:

A person intentionally or knowingly kills another person without premeditation, or

A person engages in conduct manifesting extreme indifference to human life or recklessly engages in conduct that creates a grave risk of death and thereby causes the death of another person.

Second-degree murder occurs without premeditation, meaning that no prior planning is needed to commit the act.

Looks like the prosecution is backing away from it's theory that Kelly purposely "hunted" and killed C-B. JMO.

https://www.hamplaw.com/murder

 

[RANCH]

We have the science to do this easily

Maybe. I haven't seen any ballistic evidence that supports the State's case yet. JMO.

 

[Cryptic]

The state also has to convince a jury that the bullet recovered from C-B's body came from Kelly's gun and not someone else's.

Reasonable doubt. JMO.

In the case of a recovered bullet, I agree an inability of the state to link the bullet to Kelly's gun can be crucial towards reasonable doubt.

In the end though, jury members in <modsnip: Wrong state> have lived with illegal immigration for generations. Yet, shootings of illegal immigrants are still rare.

Local juries might want more justification than: "My final story is that some Cartel types threatened me and probably killed him- they just happened to use the same type of weapon that I have. And... he was an illegal, so you know....."

Then again, in an era of continuous illegal mass migration, local jury attitudes may have changed. I, however, would not want to take the 5-99 year gamble from losing the bet.

 

[RANCH]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed.>

A reminder. This case is in Arizona and not Texas. The title of the thread is off. JMO.

 

[evilwise]

A reminder. This case is in Arizona and not Texas. The title of the thread is off. JMO.

OH! Well that makes a HUGE difference. This guy is probably screwed then.

 

[PriorTheCreator]

OH! Well that makes a HUGE difference. This guy is probably screwed then.

thats what happens when you shoot at unarmed people out of prejudice.
Ask Greg and Travis McMichael.

 

[Cryptic]

I highly doubt there is any proof of these claims. Especially when his own story is changing.

I agree. I think his ship is in danger of sinking.

My bet is that local juries are tired of the on going illegal mass migration. As a result, they would give him the benefit of the doubt(s) if it could be proven:

- I went into my barn at night. They must have thought I was Border Patrol and tried to rush past me to escape. But, heck, I thought they were attacking me. I then fired at the group....

- They were in the act of hot wiring my car. I confronted them and they, you know... turned on me. I shot the most aggressive one.

- I was not hunting anybody- well, not really. I was just investigating people on my property. They all dropped large back packs of drugs and ran. I then shot at one that appeared to be doubling back towards my house where my family was.

But K's fact pattern could be: "I used deadly force against a group who were not armed, apparently not going towards my house, not breaking into anything, and not smuggling drugs. I just got tired of it all....

 

[Ozoner]

thats what happens when you shoot at unarmed people out of prejudice.
Ask Greg and Travis McMichael.

We do not yet know enough about Mr. Kelly to know whether he is a racist. I won't be surprised if that turns out to be the case, but it is irresponsible to jump to that conclusion.

A former Border Patrol Chief has stated that the decedent was likely a drug smuggler or scout for one of the cartels. If there is evidence to back up that assertion, I suspect that the charges against Mr. Kelly will be adjudicated without a trial or dropped altogether.

Migrant shot dead by rancher was cartel drug smuggler, says BP chief

George Alan Kelly, 73, was arrested on charges of first degree murder for shooting Gabriel Cuen-Butimea on January 30 at his home.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Ozoner]

"Kelly walked onto his porch and saw the leader of the group point an AK-47 at him, the motion read. Kelly subsequently fired several warning shots above the heads of the armed men before they scattered into the desert surrounding his property, according to the motion."

Snipped, BBM.

This part seems off.

I am not a gun owner, but if I were, and someone pointed an AK-47 at me, I can assure you that that person would not enjoy the benefit of some warning shots fired above his head.

 

[rsd1200]

We have stand your ground here, but, if they deem that he was shot in the back while fleeing, then that may prove troublesome for the property owner.

“However,” Castillo added, “we do have an entry or exit wound either in the chest area or the back.”

Victim in Kino Springs shooting identified as Nogales, Sonora man

The Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s Office said Friday that it had tentatively identified the man who was shot and killed Monday in the Kino Springs area as Gabriel Cuen Buitimea,

www.nogalesinternational.com

 

[PriorTheCreator]

We do not yet know enough about Mr. Kelly to know whether he is a racist. I won't be surprised if that turns out to be the case, but it is irresponsible to jump to that conclusion.

A former Border Patrol Chief has stated that the decedent was likely a drug smuggler or scout for one of the cartels. If there is evidence to back up that assertion, I suspect that the charges against Mr. Kelly will be adjudicated without a trial or dropped altogether.

Migrant shot dead by rancher was cartel drug smuggler, says BP chief

George Alan Kelly, 73, was arrested on charges of first degree murder for shooting Gabriel Cuen-Butimea on January 30 at his home.

www.dailymail.co.uk

How would they get dropped even if so (which I doubt)? If they were no danger or threat to him, what allows for him to murder someone?

 

[SteveS]

I see a lot of talk about this case. But I see only incredibly sketchy facts and then a lot of extreme assumption. It feels to me like a lot of political bias being layered onto the situation, where the case is being used to fit some preferred narrative. I would hope that as facts emerge, the bias gets set aside in favor of rational fair application of the law, for all parties.JMO.

 

[RANCH]

We have stand your ground here, but, if they deem that he was shot in the back while fleeing, then that may prove troublesome for the property owner.

“However,” Castillo added, “we do have an entry or exit wound either in the chest area or the back.”

Victim in Kino Springs shooting identified as Nogales, Sonora man

The Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s Office said Friday that it had tentatively identified the man who was shot and killed Monday in the Kino Springs area as Gabriel Cuen Buitimea,

www.nogalesinternational.com

I can't read the article you linked because it's behind a paywall for me. Not sure who "Castillo" is but their quote about a wound is clear as mud. JMO.