AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[Lark2]

The "poop" from people's comments on MSM websites can really through a wrench into discussions when no one even knows if Isa even had a passport.

I think the comments from the HuffPo article that have been referenced here are at least worthy of discussion.

We haven't even discussed them, yet. Maybe others can weigh in.

 

[mck16]

BBM - For the most part this is true. The US does not require a passport for traveling by land or sea, there are other options. You can have a Trusted Travelers Card, or an Enhanced Drivers License. Children can use a birth certificate. However, different countries have requirements on birth certificates to avoid kidnappings.

However, from what I have read this morning, since 2010 Mexican authorities do require a passport or passport card for EVERYONE coming in.



If Isabel went to Mexico legally it was with a passport AND notarized permission from a parent

This is true, and I just asked a co-worker who is Canadian and she told me that a passport is required. I just went on a cruise to Mexico and I had to have a passport. My grandson also traveled and children under 18 don't have to have anything. just for clarification.

 

[liz b.]

Okay, just had this thought while taking a bath getting ready for work:

Sergio "says" that they all took their showers that evening. I would assume that this would include Isabel. (I would think bath, but I'm old-fashioned that way.)

Now, when the 14 year old is asked what Isabel was wearing during his 911 call, he assumes that she's wearing pyjamas, but has no details. In other words, that's what she USUALLY wears to bed.

Are you gonna tell me that she had a shower, hair braided, and gets BACK in her street clothes, so to speak? IF she had PJ's and normally wears PJ's?

What was she wearing that day? Is this the same outfit? I think that if she had been wearing PJ's, the mom would have said, she had on blue PJ's with an American flag or whatever, not that she was wearing shorts and a top, etc.

IMO, she NEVER went to bed.

(I dunno, this all seemed significant to me while I was in the bathtub!)

Isabel's going to bed has morphed a few times over the course of this story. First,she was " tucked into bed by her family " then SC said that he last saw her as she walked by him,when he asked if she wanted food.

IMO nowhere is it ever stated that she actually went to bed. Or where she went to bed. So, you may be right by saying that she never went to bed that night.

JMO

 

[mck16]

Isabel's going to bed has morphed a few times over the course of this story. First,she was " tucked into bed by her family " then SC said that he last saw her as she walked by him,when he asked if she wanted food.

IMO nowhere is it ever stated that she actually went to bed. Or where she went to bed. So, you may be right by saying that she never went to bed that night.

JMO

I have a 13 year old grandson and he has a 10 year old brother. If I asked the older what his brother wore to bed he would not have a clue. The younger might, but I doubt it. And if they go to their room at bedtime, that is what time they went to bed. Even though they may sit in a chair and read a book or watch t.v. jmo

 

[Patty G]

I think the comments from the HuffPo article that have been referenced here are at least worthy of discussion.

We haven't even discussed them, yet. Maybe others can weigh in.

My statement wasn't meant to stop the discussion, but more so, we have no clue if she even had a passport.

 

[DhyanaAZ]

FWIW, I braid my daughter's hair WET before she goes to bed. Also, if we're in a hurry, my girly-girl is instructed to take a shower. Otherwise little miss diva would soak in luxurious bubbles all night! [/QUOTE

I could have posted the exact same thing myself..i braid it wet and she showers if we're in a hurry. Maybe it's a Tucson thing..hahaha

 

[Patty G]

I am looking for any local article regarding inconsistent statements. I figure if LE "allegedly" told the Today Show about inconsistent statements, the local media surely would have asked LE off camera about SC etc., etc. and written an article.

 

[mck16]

My statement wasn't meant to stop the discussion, but more so, we have no clue if she even had a passport.

RC posted on FB about many trips they had taken. None were out of the country. Passports are very expensive (at least I thought they were), so I wouldn't think the children would have one unless they traveled extensively out of the country. I would think if they had it would be posted on FB. jmo

 

[LisaB]

Okay, just had this thought while taking a bath getting ready for work:

Sergio "says" that they all took their showers that evening. I would assume that this would include Isabel. (I would think bath, but I'm old-fashioned that way.)

Now, when the 14 year old is asked what Isabel was wearing during his 911 call, he assumes that she's wearing pyjamas, but has no details. In other words, that's what she USUALLY wears to bed.

Are you gonna tell me that she had a shower, hair braided, and gets BACK in her street clothes, so to speak? IF she had PJ's and normally wears PJ's?

What was she wearing that day? Is this the same outfit? I think that if she had been wearing PJ's, the mom would have said, she had on blue PJ's with an American flag or whatever, not that she was wearing shorts and a top, etc.

IMO, she NEVER went to bed.

(I dunno, this all seemed significant to me while I was in the bathtub!)

THANK YOU! I have suggested this as well. I actually think the tank top Sergio described was what she wore to the game, but she switched tops when she got home because (speculation) she had dribbled something on the one she was wearing. Her mom knew what shirt she had on, as she subsequrntly did Isa's hair. I totally agree with everything you said from the bath all the way down to her brother indicating that she had and wore PJs. I asked earlier why she would have put her dirty clothes on after bathing. I do not think she bathed. I think they figured on her bathing after the game she was playing in Saturday, and because it was late, Becky did her hair while the boys showered, then Isa and Becky went to bed. Becky could have missed the ealry morning dog serenade if she showered in the morning before going to work. I do not think skipping a shower one day is bad parenting, especially at the sacrifice of sleep, but think due to prior CPS involvement, Sergio said they did to make it sound like there was nothing neglectful about his childrearing.

 

[nursebeeme]

I am looking for any local article regarding inconsistent statements. I figure if LE "allegedly" told the Today Show about inconsistent statements, the local media surely would have asked LE off camera about SC etc., etc. and written an article.

The local media, from the start of the case, have been very scant in their reporting imhoo... :moo:

Doesn't surprise me a bit that national media is the first to report on this.

 

[Lark2]

My statement wasn't meant to stop the discussion, but more so, we have no clue if she even had a passport.

There's a lot more to the comments. It poses an interesting theory, that perhaps the family or SC took Isabele out of the area for a reason.

Reasons? Maybe to protect her from abuse. Maybe because she WAS being abused and they didn't want her to be interviewed. Maybe because the family had received threats.

It is somethng that is worthy of discussion, leaving the passport thing aside.

I don't want to argue so I will sign off for the day.

 

[LisaB]

I posted a similar thought the other day and was told by some WS members who live in hot climate States that it is not unusual to wear shorts and tank top to bed.

I agree with you. If the brother mentioned pajamas, I'm guessing he has seen her wearing pj's in the past. Perhaps the basketball shorts and top were her pj's? IDK

But when asked the color, the son said he was not sure, probably pink or green. These both strike me as typical little girl pajama colors. I do not mean that there are no street clothes in those colors, but that her brother was not describing shorts sets, he was describing bona fide pajamas.

 

[Lark2]

I am looking for any local article regarding inconsistent statements. I figure if LE "allegedly" told the Today Show about inconsistent statements, the local media surely would have asked LE off camera about SC etc., etc. and written an article.

Patty, I give up.

First it was reported by NG and you said that wasn't MSM.

Then it was reported by Today Show and you said the info that didn't come from a press conference so it is not credible.

Now it has to be confirmed by a local source.

Just don't believe it if you don't want to, but I thought the rules here were that NG is MSM, and the Today Show is CERTANLY MSM, and that is all that is required for posting information.

I PM'd a mod, maybe they'll weigh in.

Anyway, no worries, you don't have to believe anything. Others, though, can make their own decisions.

 

[Prof]

The "poop" from people's comments on MSM websites can really through a wrench into discussions when no one even knows if Isa even had a passport.

IMO Aside from the comment section of online newspapers being a known place for the most unreliable of postings, [IMO mostly postings wth the sole purpose of providing some kind of kick to the poster,] if this particuar comment was true LE would have been notified of a border crossing of a six year old Isa a long time ago.
I mean seriously, would someone knowingly do something like make a child missing but use the child's passport? :waitasec:
I need more coffee.

 

[Lava]

The following is pure speculation:

Now that we have heard CPS was involved previously at least one time during December, I went back to RC FB and it was pretty empty during that month. So I kept going back. There was a long silence between the end of June and Beginning of August, and then a post stating her kids have come home, and she is very happy. This was the summer time, so perhaps they went on a vacation with some family? Or Perhaps something else?

 

[LisaB]

Cold states too, for shorts/tanks to bed. Even in winter here, with our old drafty house, I dress lightly for bed, because I always am hot. 2/4 of my kids do this too. My daughter is shorts/tank or tee all the time even now as a teen, and my son who is Isa's age wears just his favorite pairs of loose "boxer" shorts and no shirt. Funny part is, he keeps his socks on, because he doesn't like cold feet. We tell him he looks like a little old man. :crazy:

Not sure we can read too much into the pj/clothes thing.

Hoping for news today... Poor Isa.

If my child slept in a tshirt and shorts and I was asked to describe her sleep attire, I'd say she wore a tshirt and shorts. I would not use the word "pajamas" to describe that. Similarly, some people will refer to a skirt and top as a dress. It's not. Even if the blouse and skirt are made of the same fabric, it is still skirt and top, not a dress. Semantics.

 

[liz b.]

I can't help it but it just dawned on me Isabel disappeared on the Night of Doper Holiday 4-20 ...hmmmm

Noticed that too...JMO

 

[LisaB]

LoL ::bombFizzle I agree. I know noone has confirmed the " writing on the wall" business. But I do have a question. Is Isabel in K or Gr 1? neither grades are very prolific or proficient writing ages.

:waitasec:

Even though when Picasso drew on the walls they enrolled him in Art classes.

I think it depends on the child. And the school. Isa attended a charter school. My sisters kids are in private school. Her daughter is in Kindergarten and is 5 years old. She writes me letters and almost everything is spelled right and the letters point the right way. When I saw her at Easter, she sat me down and started reading me a "chapter book".

 

[Patty G]

The local media, from the start of the case, have been very scant in their reporting imhoo... :moo:

Doesn't surprise me a bit that national media is the first to report on this.

I will respectfully agree to disagree on this one as the local media tried really hard to get answers from LE.

The Today Show as well as GMA, is not always accurate in their reporting. I have caught them both in so many "inconsistencies" with regards to other cases.

I'll stick with "from the horse's mouth" on this one. :biggrin:

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
After seeing the baseball friend "spokesperson" a couple of times already, I am convinced he either was asked by SC or volunteered to be the unofficial spokesperson for SC. The 2nd time I saw him, he really kind of went a little overboard IMO. I realize he may feel that SC is totally innocent (and he may be), but the matter in which he handled the interview has me convinced that he has had a LOT of prior discussion with SC about going on TV and how to handle the interviews. He was very defensive, and tried to convince all of us of SC innocence, however, unless he was there that morning, he would have no way to know for sure one way or the other.

I realize most friends would want to stick up for another friend, but for something this serious, the child is what is most important, and finding out what happened is most important. There was one part in the interview where the host reminded him of Isa, and he mentioned something like...."oh yeah, we are all here for Isa" or something like that. Kinda like he had forgotton about her, and was too busy defending SC.

I realize we would all want someone as an aliance, but the way in which he suddenly appears on at least 2 different nights, and is pretty much the unofficial "spokesperson", it just struck a chord with me. If SC put him up to this, then why wasn't SC right there along with him. He can speak english perfectly fine IMO, so the language barrier excuse does not apply IMO.

I don't know what to make of it, but the way in which he handled the interviews just bothered me because he seemed to overly defend SC to an extreme. A little too much so IMO.