AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #21

[mamamia54]

Now, that is an awesome hospital. You could be right about the phone, but it can't get more dramatic or sinister than a child taken, for real. Even watching their interview in this long version, there's something about the father that's very disturbing. Maybe he's on meds or does have a drinking problem, but he doesn't act right in his interviews.

Well, I did say the other day, when I found they had drawn blood from both parents, it was only ten days after that, that Sergio wasn't permitted to be with the boys, so maybe you're correct.

 

[mamamia54]

He does look, not drunk, but drugged, his eyes are, how do I say this, dopey looking.

 

[winterrose]

I know, but even though I know that, why is it that I feel that these parents really don't have a clue what happened? I'm not normally like this. Something is just off, and I'm not certain what exactly it is that makes me believe them. Sigh

Maybe they know what happened, but can't tell the public. Or maybe they thought they knew, but as time went on, they don't know anymore. We haven't heard from them since the agreement or seen how they react. If it wasn't for the CPS agreement, and them not being cleared, a number of things could be explained in a way.

 

[soyesterday]

YES. People that live in HOT part of the USA wear shorts/t-shirt or tank to bed. Not everyone lives where you freeze you *** off in April. JMO

Arrrgghh!!! THANK YOU!!!! I saw that comment about how we're supposed to believe she slept in the shorts and tank top AGAIN and just cringed. I tried sooooo freaking hard not to comment about it AGAIN!!!!!

The ONLY thing that matters about what she was wearing is what she was seen in last for purposes of knowing what to look for.
WHY...WHY do people make a big deal about what kids wear to bed?
This is obviously NOT towards you Ransom.....it's toward the comment that you responded to. I'm too annoyed to respond to it right now. I can't stand it again!!!
Guess what??? My daughter took a shower at 5pm today and she put on CLEAN comfortable shorts....and you know what everybody????? I let her wear them to bed too!!! Do you know why?? Cuz they were clean. She just put them on an hour before we went out to dinner. She is comfortable and loved and taken care of and there is absoulutely NOTHING wrong w/ kids wearing comfortable clothes to bed that aren't technically considered jammies!!!!!!
I can't believe i'm going off on this again. I need to try to not let this stuff bother me. But for real....people need to STOP judging what parents let their kids wear to bed or if they let them skip a shower once in a while. I could go on and on. In fact, ALL of my kids wear regular comfortable shorts and t shirts to bed. Who freaking cares?????? And why?
OMG i think i need to take my meds lol.
Thanks for letting me vent on here Ransom...AGAIN. Lol. And again, it wasn't towards you. I'm agreeing w/ you.

*signing off.....soooooo annoyed lol....

ETA: PLEASE FORGIVE ME for getting annoyed about the clothes thing again. I don't want to hurt anyone feelings or get in trouble. I just want to stop feeling like i'm being judged as a bad mom all the time because i don't look at those things as a big deal. I'm way too sensitive. I need to not let stuff bother me like that. Or care so much what others think maybe. I dunno....Anyway i'm sorry if i upset anyone. Really. <3 I love being here.

 

[Shelby2]

No all I get is this April 21, 2012 2:44 AM

I can't get a screenshot. Specifically it says on the google search page "uploaded by licksmitten. Enhanced: raw close-up survellience video released in Isabel Celis case by Rollcall2go2505"

 

[Ladylub]

Argh I was on the fence and ready to come down and rest my feet on the parents did it side and now I'm back on the fence. NM did some things that have made me thinking twice about him. And now watching the video again of SC and BC, while SC seems a bit off I cant tell if he is lying. Im normally pretty good at picking up the liar liars.

 

[desertgal]

I agree she may have held the phone in her lap it fell in the door pocket and she was just trying to get home.

BTW I googled NMc there is a person of that name with a financial issue from 2011 showing another address. Not saying its the same person, but that person probably had to move.

 

[Ladylub]

I can't get a screenshot. Specifically it says on the google search page "uploaded by licksmitten. Enhanced: raw close-up survellience video released in Isabel Celis case by Rollcall2go2505"

What words did you use on google search? Maybe I can see if I can find it.

 

[Shelby2]

Before I didn't think this but I do now. It seems "off" that the parents are being so quiet.

 

[mamamia54]

Argh I was on the fence and ready to come down and rest my feet on the parents did it side and now I'm back on the fence. NM did some things that have made me thinking twice about him. And now watching the video again of SC and BC, while SC seems a bit off I cant tell if he is lying. Im normally pretty good at picking up the liar liars.

I'm nomally pretty good at detecting a liar, and on this one, neither seemed to be lying. This case is driving me nuts.

 

[Shelby2]

What words did you use on google search? Maybe I can see if I can find it.

Just now I used google, "Isabel Celis" and selected 'videos' and under search tools "past 24 hours".

Thank you!

 

[mamamia54]

Before I didn't think this but I do now. It seems "off" that the parents are being so quiet.

It is off, since Sergio isn't permitted to be in the picture with Becky and the boys. They both know that everyone will question them about why he's not with them. What would he say? What would she say?

 

[AzDaisyCrazy]

The title of the video was 'Isabel Celis surveillance'-but as I stated, I can not tell if there is any additional info about the video from this device. For example, I can't read the description, comments, etc.
When you look at the video does it give the same title-'Isabel Celis surveillance'?

Sorry for the confusion.

I'm trying to figure out where this might be, but honestly that's almost impossible given no information.

The cars heading away from the viewer are stopping and making lefts. So perhaps a road where going straight is not an option. It appears to be a main-ish type road based on the traffic volume at that time and the street lights. Other than that, no great clues. I will note that all of the street lights seem on...occasionally here in town (I'm not sure of the rhyme or reason, or if there is a set way they do it), every other street light will only be on. I'm curious about this, but not really giving it much value..

 

[kat77]

Thanks for this timeline, so this means technically the last time Isabel was seen by anyone else that can be verified is around 9 p.m. on the night of the 20th, which widens the time frame during which something could have happened to her - especially if her immediate family is not telling the truth and made up the scenarios with showers/hair-braiding and going to bed. I wonder if by some chance Isa left the ball park with someone else? I've so far believed the family was telling the truth about being at home with her late evening, but we don't have actual proof of that, so it's good to know about LE checking the traffics cams.

My post is totally conjecture. I don't know how much of this has appeared elsewhere. I've read bits and pieces which came together this way for me. I'm just trying to make sense out of what we have at this point. This is mostly "what if" and "maybe" so bear with me.

I've had a similar opinion to makayla's for a long time. But, I never assumed that the boys would have actually known everything that happened. I thought it would be relatively easy to keep them out of the loop.

This is just a theory. I don't even know if I believe it, but I can imagine it being a possible scenario and explaining several things.

I still feel that LE has been pointing us toward family involvement since very early in the case. And I believe that they do have a reason.

My scenario begins with the possibility that LE might have surveillance video (Moore's) which shows no one entering or exiting through Isa's window that night. But, what if it also showed the screen being pushed out from the inside, or a family member removing it from the outside early Saturday morning? This could be a reason that LE would focus immediately on the parents, and that Sergio might decide that maybe the window isn't really the entry point, after all.

But, is it possible that the scent dog and other testing shows that Isa was NEVER in that bed that night? They couldn't reasonably say that her bedding was changed after they found Isa missing and before calling 911. What if LE knew immediately that Isa was not sleeping in that bed, and the missing screen was staged?

What if the middle room was usually a guest room? Maybe no one has slept there recently. If it wasn't used since Becky had last cleaned, maybe that would explain the lack of latent prints. Maybe no one stopped to think that a child's room would usually have her prints all over the furniture. Here we get back to the "where does Isa usually sleep" question, so I won't go any farther on that.

If she didn't sleep there that night, this would mean that the "abduction" would have been planned and not just discovered. It could be a hoax (the "plan" Becky mentions) or it could be a coverup for something that happened the previous evening (maybe at the ball field).

I don't know if there are any independent reports on how many cars they took to the ballgame. My thought is that the family could have come home from the ball field in separate cars, with the boys being told that Isa was with the other parent.

When they got home, the boys could be told that Isa was already in bed and sleeping in the middle bedroom that night. (maybe explains the son thinking Isa was wearing pajamas, if he didn't actually see her in bed that night.)

It wouldn't be possible to stage this kind of an "abduction" unless the kids were kept separate that night. There could be several other ways to keep them separate, like saying "Isa was tired" and someone dropped her off earlier to stay with friends or relatives, but that would create a more complicated deception.

If something was planned on Friday night (or earlier), this would be the safest way to stage an "abduction". There would be NO possible record of anyone removing Isa from that house (hence the "Go for it" and the confidence in LE finding nothing).

If LE considers this to be a possible theory, it could be the reason that they searched the wash area near the ballpark. They could have gotten a tip about suspicious activity in the area that night. It could be disposal of a body or handing Isa off to someone else. If it was a hand off, then that person had many hours to get out of Tucson before Isa was even reported missing.

Obviously disposal of a body or live hand off is totally open to debate. I keep holding out hope that Isa is alive, based partly on how Becky acts. I have trouble believing that she could remain this calm unless she really knows Isa is OK. After 5 weeks I would be absolutely frantic.

I have a possibly related question. Have we seen new photos of Isa's little white dog since the "abduction"? Maybe you have already discussed this. But if Isa is with someone who is taking care of her, wouldn't she be much less homesick if she had her puppy with her? I'm sure LE has checked on the dog.

I also paid close attention to the words used in a May 15 AP interview. Hawke said "She left through the power, through assistance of someone else; either somebody took her or, um, ENTICED her...". You can't ENTICE a dead body, so I still hope that Isa may be alive.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Yep its definitely the exact words Shelby said.. if you Google [licksmitten Isabel celis surveillance]
Those exact words in he Google search box it will bring up this only one entry and it does in fact state that it is raw enhanced surveillance video from 4/21 @2:44am of Isabel Celis case.. hmm.. wth?

 

[Shelby2]

It is off, since Sergio isn't permitted to be in the picture with Becky and the boys. They both know that everyone will question them about why he's not with them. What would he say? What would she say?

They could tell people not to forget about Isabel, to keep looking. I know they would probably be asked some tough questions. But if there is a chance that she is alive there is a chance that someone would see her.

 

[cluciano63]

I think the parents can take opportunities such as the one presented at the moving of the HQ last week, to at least put their faces on TV and speak into the microphone about Isabel and THEN walk away-rather than just walk away altogether, as they did. JMO

 

[Shelby2]

I'm trying to figure out where this might be, but honestly that's almost impossible given no information.

The cars heading away from the viewer are stopping and making lefts. So perhaps a road where going straight is not an option. It appears to be a main-ish type road based on the traffic volume at that time and the street lights. Other than that, no great clues. I will note that all of the street lights seem on...occasionally here in town (I'm not sure of the rhyme or reason, or if there is a set way they do it), every other street light will only be on. I'm curious about this, but not really giving it much value..

Me either..I was hoping there was more info about the video that I couldn't see. If I use my PC (if I ever get a turn on it) I see more info than I do using this tiny thing.

 

[winterrose]

My post is totally conjecture. I don't know how much of this has appeared elsewhere. I've read bits and pieces which came together this way for me. I'm just trying to make sense out of what we have at this point. This is mostly "what if" and "maybe" so bear with me.

I've had a similar opinion to makayla's for a long time. But, I never assumed that the boys would have actually known everything that happened. I thought it would be relatively easy to keep them out of the loop.

This is just a theory. I don't even know if I believe it, but I can imagine it being a possible scenario and explaining several things.

I still feel that LE has been pointing us toward family involvement since very early in the case. And I believe that they do have a reason.

My scenario begins with the possibility that LE might have surveillance video (Moore's) which shows no one entering or exiting through Isa's window that night. But, what if it also showed the screen being pushed out from the inside, or a family member removing it from the outside early Saturday morning? This could be a reason that LE would focus immediately on the parents, and that Sergio might decide that maybe the window isn't really the entry point, after all.

But, is it possible that the scent dog and other testing shows that Isa was NEVER in that bed that night? They couldn't reasonably say that her bedding was changed after they found Isa missing and before calling 911. What if LE knew immediately that Isa was not sleeping in that bed, and the missing screen was staged?

What if the middle room was usually a guest room? Maybe no one has slept there recently. If it wasn't used since Becky had last cleaned, maybe that would explain the lack of latent prints. Maybe no one stopped to think that a child's room would usually have her prints all over the furniture. Here we get back to the "where does Isa usually sleep" question, so I won't go any farther on that.

If she didn't sleep there that night, this would mean that the "abduction" would have been planned and not just discovered. It could be a hoax (the "plan" Becky mentions) or it could be a coverup for something that happened the previous evening (maybe at the ball field).

I don't know if there are any independent reports on how many cars they took to the ballgame. My thought is that the family could have come home from the ball field in separate cars, with the boys being told that Isa was with the other parent.

When they got home, the boys could be told that Isa was already in bed and sleeping in the middle bedroom that night. (maybe explains the son thinking Isa was wearing pajamas, if he didn't actually see her in bed that night.)

It wouldn't be possible to stage this kind of an "abduction" unless the kids were kept separate that night. There could be several other ways to keep them separate, like saying "Isa was tired" and someone dropped her off earlier to stay with friends or relatives, but that would create a more complicated deception.

If something was planned on Friday night (or earlier), this would be the safest way to stage an "abduction". There would be NO possible record of anyone removing Isa from that house (hence the "Go for it" and the confidence in LE finding nothing).

If LE considers this to be a possible theory, it could be the reason that they searched the wash area near the ballpark. They could have gotten a tip about suspicious activity in the area that night. It could be disposal of a body or handing Isa off to someone else. If it was a hand off, then that person had many hours to get out of Tucson before Isa was even reported missing.

Obviously disposal of a body or live hand off is totally open to debate. I keep holding out hope that Isa is alive, based partly on how Becky acts. I have trouble believing that she could remain this calm unless she really knows Isa is OK. After 5 weeks I would be absolutely frantic.

I have a possibly related question. Have we seen new photos of Isa's little white dog since the "abduction"? Maybe you have already discussed this. But if Isa is with someone who is taking care of her, wouldn't she be much less homesick if she had her puppy with her? I'm sure LE has checked on the dog.

I also paid close attention to the words used in a May 15 AP interview. Hawke said "She left through the power, through assistance of someone else; either somebody took her or, um, ENTICED her...". You can't ENTICE a dead body, so I still hope that Isa may be alive.

Makes alot of sense Kat, he made a point of going in to tell the boys to be quiet, because she's going to sleep. I read on here somewhere the boys left with RC from the ballpark, and Isa left with SC and I wonder where that came from. It would also make sense as to why LE was looking for her in any of the 9pm 4/20 to 10am 4/21 on the traffic cameras. Also, you can't entice a child to go with a stranger in the middle of the night. It would have to be someone she knew to get her to go out of the house, if that's where she was taken from.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Moo of the latent prints referred to in the docs is this.. I believe that what is being stated are the prints that they've been able to lift and find THAT DO NOT BELONG TO ANYONE IN THE FAMILY.. meaning of course there's prints all over the home.. but these ones being indicated in the docs aare the ones that have been found but do not match any of the family members.. moo but this is exactly what is being referred to.. obviously the family members fingerprints will becovering Isa's room(huge eyeroll if its believed that ANYONE would be capable of erasing EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY PRINT FROM ISA&#8216;S. EXCEPT FOR THE COUPLE MENTIONED:big eyeroll: )

The family's prints are there and that isn't what is being referred to in the docs.. IMO the very few that they were able to lift that are mentioned in the docs are foreign and do not match any in the households.. jmo, tho