AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 6

[tehcloser]

I really, really, really didn't want the family to be involved. But, dang it I'm leaning that way.

 

[LisaB]

Also maybe the reason they didn't report her missing from the park is because neither of them knew she was missing until the next morning, and didn't want to be charged with negligence or risk the other kids being taken away. Each parent thought the other had her.

This would certainly explain the tension people sensed between them at the PC, and maybe even their delay in speaking out. It would be hard to place the blame on EITHER parent if each honestly thought the other had her. It is also barely possible that mom DID look in, saw Isa was not there, and woke her husband. They realized then what had happened, and staged the window, called the "uncle" to go check the park and then come over. Shortly thereafter, "uncle" shows up at the house, the dogs go off, the neighbor hears voices, and and mom left for work as usual. At 8, dad made the 911 call, and he and the "uncle" began the door to door search.

 

[not_my_kids]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...r-old-girl-vanishes-from-tucson-arizona-home/

watch this video again. at 1:00, the reporter interviews a teenager ("a family friend" they say) who says "she was just a perfect little girl having fun at a party".

at a party??? what party? now...none of the adults in that house (including the uncle, if he indeed lives there) are strangers to drinking (each, SC/RC/JM have a dui on their record)...

what if...there was a party going on at the celis home when they arrived from the baseball game (or they threw a party when they got home from the baseball game)...and no one really remembers who put her to bed when? and someone at the party was the guilty party? or...an accident/something illegal happened during or after needing a cover-up???

thoughts?

He says at a "PARK".

 

[ehough22]

Mom leaves the park. Goes home and to bed. Dad gets home later (possibly with the boys) and goes to bed without looking in on Isabel. Mom gets up and goes to work without checking Isabel and risking waking her. Dad wakes up at 8 and goes to wake Isabel. She is not there. He calls 911 and begins to search for her. He calls his wife and she races home. It is until several hours have passed that the "I thought YOU brought her home last night" conversation takes place and by then the search is going on and they feel they can't tell the police what they have only just figured out. OR they do tell police which is why they want video from the ballfield the evening before.

Then how to explain the window? This makes more sense to me than it being a complicit conspiracy from the get go, but it doesn't explain the window being tampered with.

Does anyone know, would the dogs somehow signal that there was no "fresh scent" in Isabel's bed? If she didn't sleep there that night, would they have a hard time picking up her scent? Whoever pointed out that the dogs did hit on something had a point when it comes to the "Isabel never came home" theory. The dogs hit on something, or is it that they didn't hit on anything?

 

[Eclipse33]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...r-old-girl-vanishes-from-tucson-arizona-home/

watch this video again. at 1:00, the reporter interviews a teenager ("a family friend" they say) who says "she was just a perfect little girl having fun at a party".

at a party??? what party? now...none of the adults in that house (including the uncle, if he indeed lives there) are strangers to drinking (each, SC/RC/JM have a dui on their record)...

what if...there was a party going on at the celis home when they arrived from the baseball game (or they threw a party when they got home from the baseball game)...and no one really remembers who put her to bed when? and someone at the party was the guilty party? or...an accident/something illegal happened during or after needing a cover-up???

thoughts?

I'm almost 100% sure he says 'park'. We've all watched it...if it had said 'party'...it would have been caught days ago.

 

[gitana1]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...r-old-girl-vanishes-from-tucson-arizona-home/

watch this video again. at 1:00, the reporter interviews a teenager ("a family friend" they say) who says "she was just a perfect little girl having fun at a party".

at a party??? what party? now...none of the adults in that house (including the uncle, if he indeed lives there) are strangers to drinking (each, SC/RC/JM have a dui on their record)...

what if...there was a party going on at the celis home when they arrived from the baseball game (or they threw a party when they got home from the baseball game)...and no one really remembers who put her to bed when? and someone at the party was the guilty party? or...an accident/something illegal happened during or after needing a cover-up???

thoughts?

Listen again. He could be saying "park". (Which is what I heard). If there was a party at that home, the partygoers would have notified police of that fact.

Also, I never really get the accident/cover up scenario that seems to come up in these cases. Unless the accident involved abuse, as the the coroner in Caylee's case stated, 100% of the time, parents report the accident, and call for help, in the hopes of saving the child, even if that child is cold to the touch.

This appears to be a tight-knit, Hispanic, Catholic family whose lives revolve around their kids. Such people don't fit the profile of the type who would neglect a child who dies as a result of the neglect and then jump through improbable hoops to cover it up, IMO.

I think the most viable scenarios are that she was either killed in the house in the course of abuse, or, more remotely, intentionally, or someone abducted her from the home, someone who knew her well or had been stalking the family.

 

[katydid23]

Mom leaves the park. Goes home and to bed. Dad gets home later (possibly with the boys) and goes to bed without looking in on Isabel. Mom gets up and goes to work without checking Isabel and risking waking her. Dad wakes up at 8 and goes to wake Isabel. She is not there. He calls 911 and begins to search for her. He calls his wife and she races home. It is until several hours have passed that the "I thought YOU brought her home last night" conversation takes place and by then the search is going on and they feel they can't tell the police what they have only just figured out. OR they do tell police which is why they want video from the ballfield the evening before.

I guess it is possible. But it seems counterintuitive , to me. Isabel is their baby girl. I cannot see Mom just driving away late that night without checking what was up with her little girl. And it is weirder that she would drive away that night with no thought of her 6 yr old,then go to bed without thinking of her, not during the night or even early the next morning. Just seems odd to me.

 

[LisaB]

I really don't see this as so far out there, Mom tells dad, Isa is riding with him, dad is like some people and hears her but doesn't "hear her" or comprehend what she said. Mom is in bed when he gets home because of work the next morning, she is in a hurry when getting ready for work and doesn't check on Isa or looks in her room and assumes she is in her brothers room sleeping, dad gets up and then remembers what mom had said then starts the cover up.

ooooh. Then you are suggesting that dad did not tell mom the truth when he realized it (at least not immediately)... he staged a break-in, called police and started the search. She came home, and would have had a "genuine" reaction to the news of her daughter's disappearance, and not until the police asked what she was last seen wearing (pants and shirt) that she figured out what had happened.

JMO

 

[Patty G]

As I understand it, she lives in the neighbor's guest house. She is not the homeowner. I would like to know how long she has been there. If it is a couple weeks, she really isn't in a position to say she is the ONLY one who walks there. If she has been there a couple of YEARS, it would be more meaningful.

The neighbor has lived there 8 months. She stated this on Nancy's show last night.

 

[TxLady2]

The boys may be clueless, too. They probably want to believe their parents. Or maybe they just want to help out their parents and not expose their mistake AND kthey want to find Isa.

And maybe Isa was taken at the park before she had a chance to be wandering around without a parent...... after mom left the park, but before dad left the park.

Just a thought!

Is there some new fact that has emerged to give validation to any theory that puts Isa missing from the ballpark, rather than from her own bedroom in the middle of the night?? Or is this just more assumptions based on opinions?

I'm going to agree with the poster upthread. If one bases a theory on assumptions on top of other assumptions, then it's probably not a good theory. Many, many things are possible but that does not make them probable.

 

[LisaB]

Well at the vigil her brothers team members ran out on the field that we had tied ribbons to before the game. From people talking there, the team that played after the vigil had started was her brothers team.

But either way, it has been stated in a couple of articles now that the family was at freedom park friday night.

Yes. Her YOUNGER (of the two) brother's team played.

 

[LisaB]

But what about the 10 and 14 yr old? Would they go along with a horrible, corrupt cover up?

Also, the dad would have to assume that she was dead and not coming home. If they really had left her behind, wouldn't some of the other families have seen her, wandering out looking for her parents?

If they thought she rode with the parent they did not ride with, they would not know. Isa could have fallen asleeo under the bleachers for all we know. Or she could have literally been kidnapped by someone who saw her on the playground alone at 10PM while her dad was cleaning up.

 

[ehough22]

Is there some new fact that has emerged to give validation to any theory that puts Isa missing from the ballpark, rather than from her own bedroom in the middle of the night?? Or is this just more assumptions based on opinions?

I'm going to agree with the poster upthread. If one bases a theory on assumptions on top of other assumptions, then it's probably not a good theory. Many, many things are possible but that does not make them probable.

At the presser today, LE expressed lots of interest in getting photos/video from the ballpark that night. Which is what led to the speculation that she either did not leave the ballpark, or they are looking for a POI in the footage.

 

[gitana1]

Is there some new fact that has emerged to give validation to any theory that puts Isa missing from the ballpark, rather than from her own bedroom in the middle of the night?? Or is this just more assumptions based on opinions?

I'm going to agree with the poster upthread. If one bases a theory on assumptions on top of other assumptions, then it's probably not a good theory. Many, many things are possible but that does not make them probable.

No. And it just seems too improbable to me.

 

[gitana1]

At the presser today, LE expressed lots of interest in getting photos/video from the ballpark that night. Which is what led to the speculation that she either did not leave the ballpark, or they are looking for a POI in the footage.

How about this: They want to know who was at that park and who may have been watching Isabel and her family?

 

[Thinkzerz]

ooooh. Then you are suggesting that dad did not tell mom the truth when he realized it (at least not immediately)... he staged a break-in, called police and started the search. She came home, and would have had a "genuine" reaction to the news of her daughter's disappearance, and not until the police asked what she was last seen wearing (pants and shirt) that she figured out what had happened.

JMO

Dad called mom and told her Isa was not in her bed. They wouldn't have had time to think of staging anything because he called police around the same time. When would the two of them realized that the other didn't bring Isa home? Don't think i would try to stage anything if it was my child missing. I would want to tell all to help find my child asap.

 

[MagnoliaMom]

It is a chaotic mess getting away from the ball park. Kids trying to make spend the night plans or plans to go eat together. Parents trying to say no and gather up the ones they are responsible for or saying yes and trying to decide which kid is going with whom and where. Someone could get run over in the parking lot while they are trying to run around trying to see what everyone else is doing when they leave the park. I have had another child with me and the parent leave with them without telling me and I was in a panic. I know someone who did leave her child but they were still there when she got back. Sometimes they are asleep in the car when you get home. If they are too big to carry, they zombie walk their way inside and crash in their uniform or clothes they had on at the park. Maybe she was asleep in the car and they forgot to get her out.

It could be a real possibility or nothing at all and they made it home just fine.

 

[LisaB]

Not if someone took her first, they wouldn't notice, what if the boys assumed the same as mom did, she rode with dad, he put her to bed when they got home, and the dad is the only one who knows. Besides the person who took her from the park while dad was cleaning.

And if the boys had stayed late to help dad, they could ALL have assumed that mom took Isa home to bed because they were both tired and had an early morning coming up. I don't think they intended to misreport this. I think they did not realize themselves until they were discussing what she was wearing last... and neither had put her into jammies or tucked her in bed.

 

[LisaB]

But why would the dad 'cover up', lie to police that she was taken from her bedroom, etc.? I would think if a parent realized they had left their child somewhere, they'd be rushing to that place and calling the police to help look for her there..

Would you expect her to still be there after 9 hours? Maybe they sent "uncle" to check the park first, explaining why he was at the house at 8. If some "good person" had found her wandering around lost, they'd have called the family. At 6 she should know the phone number.

 

[dimples37398]

There are a lot of things in this case that don't seem probable, Someone taking her at 6:30 in broad day light, without awaking anyone in the house, the 3 dogs. We really have very few things in this case that are definite so we are just thinking of possibilities, maybe not probable but maybe they are.