AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 8

[BrownRice]

I don't understand the suspicion towards the uncle. Even if he was involved in some shady business, why would they want to harm his niece? It doesn't make any sense to me.

The other thing I don't get is LE releasing the surveillance video of the 5 individuals and asking the 5 to come forward. My understanding was to ask them about the 6th. person in the video. Why would they not go out in public asking the 6th. person to identify themself like they did for the 5. Am I missing something? :waitasec:

One last point I wanted to make was regarding a child being snatched from their bedroom versus off the street. I would love to know how a criminal profiler would characterize such an individual. What makes a perp so brazen to risk going inside the home versus snatching the child at a playground or outside their home, etc? I am going to venture to guess that perhaps the perp does not have a vehicle (??)

Thoughts?

BBM
I would think any person brazen enough to abduct a child would have a car to leave quickly. IMO, I would think a person who snatches a child from their bedroom has selected that child as their target, whereas a street abduction could be a random target (availability).

 

[TxLady2]

I have a hypothetical question.

If your child was kidnapped and the kidnappers threatened to kill her if you go public or tell LE, what would you do? If they demanded that this be kept quiet and the ransom money be deposited on such and such a day at a certain location, etc. Would you comply or would you tell LE?

Not saying that is the reason the parents are not going public but it has crossed my mind and I pondered what I would do if my child's life was at stake.

Good question. But they did tell LE, they apparently reported it as soon as they discovered her missing, so that wouldn't apply here, IMO.
However, it brings up the possibility that a kidnapper could have contacted them since then and demanded they not speak to the media or the public. Who knows for sure what they would or wouldn't do? But I think in most cases, that initial contact from kidnappers would be made very early on, within hours of the person missing or at least by the next day... not several days later. JMO.

 

[~n/t~]

BBM
I would think any person brazen enough to abduct a child would have a car to leave quickly. IMO, I would think a person who snatches a child from their bedroom has selected that child as their target, whereas a street abduction could be a random target (availability).

I was thinking John Couey. No car. Elizabeth Smart - did her abductors have a car?

 

[TxLady2]

I don't know, grief doesn't mean resigning to the fact that she is deceased. You can grieve that she is missing, grieve that this is happening, grieve that one day your family was going about day to day life and now your baby is gone and you are national news.
It COULD be strange to say we will never give up as if they know it is going to be a long process, but it could just be a way of saying we are dedicated to finding her until she is found regardless of how long that takes.

Thank you for saying what I've tried to say many times!! Grief is not just reserved for a death. We mourn when someone dies, but we grieve for the loss of many things. You said it well.
I also don't see it as strange that the dad said they will never give up.. he addressed that to Isa... and there is always the chance that if she is alive her kidnapper is watching t.v. coverage and that sends him a message. "We will never give up looking for you." That's powerful.

 

[txanmom]

I can think of several reasons. They may be very private people and uncomfortable with answering dumb questions from reporters. And the info that the public needs to know, her description and the clothes she was wearing has already been put out by LE, no need to repeat it from the parents. They could go on camera every day and plead for her safe return, but I can't think of one abductor who ever released a child or brought them home because of a parent's tearful plea in the media, can you? And sadly, statistics say that by the time the parents speak out, it's too late, anyway, the child is already dead within a few hours after they were kidnapped.
Respectfully, it does not have to mean they're hiding something... although they could be... but there is no rule that says they have to speak out. And in following so many of these cases, I have come to believe that the less they say in public the better. Look how much criticism the parents have got so far just from that one appearance. Anything they say to the media is going to be sliced and diced to kingdom come, but it won't help find this little girl.

BBM, respectfully I believe in MOO that the reason to speak out, is that if she is still alive (and as a parent of a daughter that would be a hope that I would cling to like a vine) I would want her to hear my voice, to hear me telling her to be strong and that I am looking for her and I will continue to look for her no matter what. I feel if she is still alive then her abductors probably would be following the media to see where things are at with the investigation and she might be in proximity to hear me. In this case I could really give a flying fig what the media asks me, or how people perceive me - it isn't about these parents, it is about their precious baby girl, who might just believe that her parents don't care about her anymore, and she might give up hope.

Sadly, you are probably right about her already having passed, though. But as a parent it is really hard for me to believe that her parents have gotten to that point unless they know something that we do not.

MOO

 

[liz b.]

Not true. I clipped the following discussion from NG's transcript.

<snipped>
GRACE: And Ms. Stardevant, you coming forward and speaking, answering questions, means so much to literally millions of people that are praying for Isabel`s safe return.

I know that you state you heard dogs barking and male voices that you believe to have been English-speaking around 6:30 AM that morning. Could you show me behind you where you were and tell me what you heard?

“I remember hearing English, I think. You know, again, I wasn`t paying a lot of attention. But it didn`t seem like it was a language that I wouldn`t understand, that I didn`t understand”.

“I really do think it was English voices.”

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/26/ng.01.html


Ms. Stardevant said she heard Isabel’s parents say hello to her so if Sergio and the uncle have an accent, Alicia should be able to tell whether the male voice she heard at 6:30 am belongs to Sergio.

Ms. Stardevant should also know whether the males were walking through the alley (if so there voices would fade) or if they were standing directly outside Isabel’s window.

I thought this too,until I watched the abc news viden the abc news video she clearly states that she could not tell if they are speaking english or spanish. MOO She probably gave this interview AFTER she spoke to the reporter on the abc news video. After she thought about it more. Not sure which one I would believe, but it does not mean that she's not telling the truth....MOO

 

[TxLady2]

Below is the statements from todays presser that were mentioned about the elusive mystery man on the corner lot that the 5 witnesses walked past around 1:30am the morning of the abduction.. IMO we learned some things for certain in they're admitting there is a 6th person( as I know some were of the mind set that it was just shadows&lights).. That LE does NOT know who the 6th individual is.. And replied yes to a reporter asking does LE "want to know" who the 6th individual is.. Along with his stating that it is the 6th individual that is part of the entire reason they are anxious to speak with the 5 people walking past him..

Here's my portion of notes from the presser specifically regarding the "6th individual" seen on the video..

Notes from presser 4/29-
-The 6th individual is an additional and separate issue.
That's part of the reason we wanted to speak to these 5 individuals..

-Do u know who that 6th unidentified person is?(reporter asks)
No we do not(LE answers)

- Do u want to know who that person is?(reporter asks)
(LE answers)Yes, that's another reason we wanted to talk to these 5 individuals to see did they come in contact with this person or any other person for that matter.. I do not want to get too much into who this mysterious person is.. There are a lot of people who are walking in this area, especially at that specific time with the particular bars right around there..some park a distance away to avoid us(as in LE)


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

BBM. What a dumb question!! See what I meant earlier?? Geez, what did this reporter expect the answer to be? "Naahh, we really don't care who he is."
Who hires these people anyway?? Sorry... this is just bugging me.

 

[thefragile7393]

BBM. What a dumb question!! See what I meant earlier?? Geez, what did this reporter expect the answer to be? "Naahh, we really don't care who he is."
Who hires these people anyway?? Sorry... this is just bugging me.

One of the pressers in the early days had a reporter asking "why focus on this missing child when there are so many out there?" Really dude?!? I wish I had a link to that.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[AnaTeresa]

BBM, respectfully I believe in MOO that the reason to speak out, is that if she is still alive (and as a parent of a daughter that would be a hope that I would cling to like a vine) I would want her to hear my voice, to hear me telling her to be strong and that I am looking for her and I will continue to look for her no matter what. I feel if she is still alive then her abductors probably would be following the media to see where things are at with the investigation and she might be in proximity to hear me. In this case I could really give a flying fig what the media asks me, or how people perceive me - it isn't about these parents, it is about their precious baby girl, who might just believe that her parents don't care about her anymore, and she might give up hope.

Sadly, you are probably right about her already having passed, though. But as a parent it is really hard for me to believe that her parents have gotten to that point unless they know something that we do not.

MOO

Yes, but. How many abducted children really are going to hear their parents' statements to the media? Is the abductor really going to sit them down in front of the television? This isn't a baby that a person could pass off as their own child. If Isabel was kidnapped by someone who wanted to keep her alive, she's probably not in a place where she could hear her parents statements to the media anyway.

I think we place far too much emphasis on the parents speaking to the media. A statement to the media is generally not going to prompt a kidnapper to return their child. It is most likely not going to be heard by the child. It may or may not keep the case in the media, but could very easily turn the case into a circus over the parents' lives, rather than keeping the focus on the child. If you are barely keeping it together as it is, I can see why you'd not make it a priority to keep speaking to the media, particularly if LE is continuing its updates.

 

[TxLady2]

I lost my 8 year old for about 5 minutes about a month ago while at my older son's baseball game. We were at a huge park with one of those wooden playgrounds. I just knew he was in there playing, even though I hadn't given him permission to do so. He has NEVER wandered off before. We had the whole team's families yelling for him. Turns out he just ran to my van to put his scooter up. He swore he told me. In that 5 minues, which felt like forever, my mind went crazy. I'm a panicky type person anyway, but the horrors that went through my head were awful. Once we were home and safe, my mind went into the "what ifs?" I had a full blown panic attack thinking of my baby being abducted by some creep and how scared he would have been wondering where mommy and daddy were and why we weren't saving him. It was awful, and yet my baby was safe in his bed. I can't imagine the thoughts going through Isa's parents not knowing where she is. Is she cold, hungry, hurting, etc. It's almost easier to think they're not suffering; thus *shudder* dead, than it is to think they're so scared and going through the horrors of being abducted, raped, etc.

Sorry, I'm rambling. I don't post here much, but this case has me by the you know what, and I don't even have you know whats.

What you said in both posts above makes so much sense and I agree. I hope you post often, I can relate to everything you have said so far, and I do love logical thinkers!!

 

[Lark2]

I think we place far too much emphasis on the parents speaking to the media..

For me, the issue is not whether the family speaks to the media - because I tend to agree with your statement above - but rather, why LE wants them to.

And of course, I've already stated my opinion on the why.

 

[Fluffy Puppy]

Yes, but. How many abducted children really are going to hear their parents' statements to the media? Is the abductor really going to sit them down in front of the television? This isn't a baby that a person could pass off as their own child. If Isabel was kidnapped by someone who wanted to keep her alive, she's probably not in a place where she could hear her parents statements to the media anyway.

I think we place far too much emphasis on the parents speaking to the media. A statement to the media is generally not going to prompt a kidnapper to return their child. It is most likely not going to be heard by the child. It may or may not keep the case in the media, but could very easily turn the case into a circus over the parents' lives, rather than keeping the focus on the child. If you are barely keeping it together as it is, I can see why you'd not make it a priority to keep speaking to the media, particularly if LE is continuing its updates.

BOY do I agree with (BBM) above. I think the media places emphasis on parents, suspects, etc. talking to the media. Now I might do it in case it helped, but honestly, I can understand when people don't want to and try not to judge them, especially when lots of time has passed. It seems sort of pointless.

Of course as a person sitting at home following the case I might like to hear from them, but I am sure they should not be concerned with me.

I remember during the Scott Peterson case the media was just wringing their hands that Scotty needed to talk with them to clear some things up. (The reason that sticks with me is that I think Geragos was only a talking head in the case at the time.)

 

[Patty G]

Missing Child Isabel Mercedes Celis Missing Since April 20, 2012 - YouTube

 

[liz b.]

As far as the parents appearing, I would expect them to talk about Isabel, rather than any case details. What kind of girl was she, what was she interested in, how she was in school, etc. Things that would humanize Isabel even more. Stuff like that keeps Isabel in the news. Also, perhaps talking about the efforts going on to help find Isabel. For instance there was a face painting going on at the command center to raise money, there was a little concert, they have t-shirts and flyers etc. I think all of this coming from the parents, the parents being actively involved in getting the community involved goes a long way.

I know there are things that aren't great about speaking to the media. Its just my opinion that those things are nothing compared to the ability to keep Isabel in the news.

Great post...MOO The more the public knows about this child, the better. It will keep her in the public's memory. The news cycle is lightning fast, and people forget quickly.
If the parents are more comfortable speaking spanish, maybe they could sit down with a reporter from Telemundo or Univision.
It seems that a lot of families with missing family members have to almost beg the media to cover their story after awhile. This is the time to get and keep Isabel's story and face in the limelight...MOO No one can talk about a child as meaningfully as that child's parents. MOO

 

[nursebeeme]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...olice-expand-search-for-6-year-old-to-mexico/

 

[AnaTeresa]

For me, the issue is not whether the family speaks to the media - because I tend to agree with your statement above - but rather, why LE wants them to.

And of course, I've already stated my opinion on the why.

I do think it's interesting that LE has encouraged them to speak to the media. I'm not sure if it's because they want to see if the family changes its story, or if they have some sort of profile on the abductor and need the family to speak, or for some other investigative reason (who may show up to the presser or try to insert themselves), etc. I do think that there's something to it, since LE said publicly that they are encouraging the family to speak. I just can't decide why LE wants it.

 

[nursebeeme]

early on LE said that they were watching the family's emotional reactions (or some similar wording)

Could they want to see them on camera again for a similar reason?

(just throwing that out there)

 

[cocomod]

I can think of several reasons. They may be very private people and uncomfortable with answering dumb questions from reporters. And the info that the public needs to know, her description and the clothes she was wearing has already been put out by LE, no need to repeat it from the parents. They could go on camera every day and plead for her safe return, but I can't think of one abductor who ever released a child or brought them home because of a parent's tearful plea in the media, can you? And sadly, statistics say that by the time the parents speak out, it's too late, anyway, the child is already dead within a few hours after they were kidnapped.
Respectfully, it does not have to mean they're hiding something... although they could be... but there is no rule that says they have to speak out. And in following so many of these cases, I have come to believe that the less they say in public the better. Look how much criticism the parents have got so far just from that one appearance. Anything they say to the media is going to be sliced and diced to kingdom come, but it won't help find this little girl.

BBM - Kienan

 

[Prof]

As far as the parents appearing, I would expect them to talk about Isabel, rather than any case details. What kind of girl was she, what was she interested in, how she was in school, etc. Things that would humanize Isabel even more. Stuff like that keeps Isabel in the news. Also, perhaps talking about the efforts going on to help find Isabel. For instance there was a face painting going on at the command center to raise money, there was a little concert, they have t-shirts and flyers etc. I think all of this coming from the parents, the parents being actively involved in getting the community involved goes a long way.

I know there are things that aren't great about speaking to the media. Its just my opinion that those things are nothing compared to the ability to keep Isabel in the news.

This is exactly how I feel. If they really feel that Isa is alive, and someone has her, the more they get her on media, on national and international media by speaking out, the more the news is spread. People who might have some kind of information may not watch the news everyday. Maybe they catch up once a week. Odds for getting more tips increase the more the population is aware of the story.

 

[~n/t~]

early on LE said that they were watching the family's emotional reactions (or some similar wording)

Could they want to see them on camera again for a similar reason?

(just throwing that out there)

Really? They said they wanted to watch their emotional reactions? OMG:what: