Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #3

[news.talk]

I disagree with you completely here. My daughter won't let her best friend watch her daughter. She loves her BFF a lot but she is a flake. She has a daughter too but the 3 year old can't even hold a basic conversation as her mother doesn't talk to her other than telling her what is expected of her or if she is in trouble. She is too busy with her phone, tv or friends. She takes care of her needs and doesn't allow her to do unsafe things but she isn't really treated like she is a distinct person so my daughter is uncomfortable with that.

That is just one example but I've known people to have friends or relatives they would never leave their children with as they might not be 'kid people' or in other ways unsuitable.

I completely agree. Although, I can understand why, in TG's life experiences, she was unable to discern what pro-active parenting means. I am NOT in any way defending her or her actions, but I do understand that she is a product of her environment - probably uneducated, no instinctal parenting skills or common sense. I do not think that should be an excuse but it does raise a productive question - Why wasn't there better intervention, especially since she already had a child removed?

There needs to be a better system in place. Whether it be parenting classes in high schools, CPS monitoring of known drug abusers, LE reporting of children at risk when parents are involve with criminal elements and community awareness with timely reporting.

Sadly, this will not be the last time this happens to a child.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

I am guilty of those not-too-cool things adults should not say to kids.

If this was the only thing she said or did that was at issue, I would have no problem offering compassion. Unfortunately, from the comments that have been reported, this is the closest thing to 'parenting' I have seen by TG. It's too bad she didn't tuck her child in bed, lock the doors and stayed in earshot.

Maybe it was a one-off time (not likely), maybe it was a now-and-then occurrence (possible), maybe it was an every-time occurrence regarding TG doing the things you describe. But, as I expect many of us are likely aware, many parents become complacent to varying degrees depending on if they are first-time parents with a 1 year old or parents on their second or third child. The complacency and creatures-of-habit-comfortable factor are quite significant, and it is when a sick individual takes advantage of parents loose management skills that we point and cry "shame on you". Complacency and creatures-of-habit-comfortable motions of life are not planned nor intended, it simply happens and yes, it should not be so prevalent but as we know, reality is a b**** and she bites hard.

And there is at least the possibility TG's cousin was on-premises watching the children play and may have remained for a period after the other adults (except GM) left the house.

Regarding the "get your butt in bed", similar commands and taunts are second-nature for certain old school Italian families ..I have first hand knowledge of *many* such families through two generations. This is embedded in the culture and heritage, and was and is never considered as "sad" nor "not-too-cool". In fact, it emphasizes the parents are 'in control', that what they say, goes.

It seems we are picking apart every grunt uttered by TG. Let's hope her bathroom habits never come to light.... holy cr, err, never mind... :gaah:

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I completely agree. Although, I can understand why, in TG's life experiences, she was unable to discern what pro-active parenting means. I am NOT in any way defending her or her actions, but I do understand that she is a product of her environment - probably uneducated, no instinctal parenting skills or common sense. I do not think that should be an excuse but it does raise a productive question - Why wasn't there better intervention, especially since she already had a child removed?

There needs to be a better system in place. Whether it be parenting classes in high schools, CPS monitoring of known drug abusers, LE reporting of children at risk when parents are involve with criminal elements and community awareness with timely reporting.

Sadly, this will not be the last time this happens to a child.

Seems this thread has gone full circle regarding 'intervention' ... nline:

 

[news.talk]

Seems this thread has gone full circle regarding 'intervention' ... nline:

Full circle, semi-circle, linear...

As long as children's names appear at the top of the topic list, it bares repeating.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

I can't offer anything rational behind it. It was late and I was feeling sad and frustrated. I don't think God "takes" children in order for them to avoid bad things...if He did, we would have a lot less kids in this world.

I am so angry and saddened by people attempting to defend the parents in situations like this. Yes, I get it that ultimately the person who killed the child holds the responsibility. But the parents that place their kids in dangerous situations hold liability for these kids' deaths! It's NOT OKAY that Jenise Wright was allowed to roam her neighborhood for hours on end. And that's NOT a mistake "any" of us could make. It's NOT OKAY that Bella was exposed to drugs and criminals. Again, not a mistake "any" of us could make.

I'm a pretty laid back person and work with many people who are on the fringes of society (substance abusers, mentally ill, and criminals). I get that they have a different mindset and don't always know better. But there is no excuse for Tania to have been allowing people like JR in her house. She has lost custody of her kids in the past. They make parents do parenting classes and get counseling and have drug tests in order to get custody back. If the well-being of her kids was her priority, she would not have been exposing them to drug use. She would not have been exposing them to criminals. She would have had them tucked in at 8 or 9 pm, they wouldn't have been awake playing hide and seek at 11:30 PM. She would have already had their snacks and lunch foods ready for the next week so she didn't have to leave her house at nearly midnight. JR being at their house would have been very noticeable because a)he is a felon that shouldn't have been around and b)he shouldn't have been coming around that late and c)Tania would have actually been paying enough attention to know something wasn't right.

If those circumstances had been present that night, I would NOT be holding TG accountable. I would be thinking how sad it is that a mom who had made some mistakes had been trying to make her life right and some creep she'd known back in the day had come around and committed a horrifying crime and she'd had no way of knowing what a crazy person he was because she hadn't been around him or others who knew him. (Sorry about the run on sentence.)

That's the deal. SHE KNEW BETTER and chose NOT to protect her kids.

Understood. no harm no foul! ;-)

I agree with the rest of your post except: the main thing that TG did that blindly (TG was oblivious) led to Isabella's tragic end is TG exposed her children to JJR. We can not be entirely sure if TG had made lunches ahead of time and tucked in Isabella that it would have prevented JJR from eventually doing what he wanted to do, albeit it we might assume it would have made it more difficult. I just think it important to keep separate TG's assumed-'bad parenting' (lunch, bed tuck, keep an eye on) from TG's exposing her children to a criminal element ... I believe that to be THE critical failure.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Right, but if the parent has pics of the kids posted, it means they didn't care about that, and then gives outsiders the opportunity to compare the number of photos of their kids compared to the number of photos of their "lifestyle" and come to a conclusion about what was most important to that parent.

A few photos of the kids now and then are not an issue, and for parents in-the-know it might be typical as they want to easily share photos with family and friends. It is when there are numerous photos snapped regularly in locations frequented by the family / children. Criminals use the data to trend and predict and plan for opportunities.

In TG's case we might safely assume the 'lifestyle' images played a significant role, with the lifestyle binge all-absorptive of her time and attention with the children hanging on to the ever-flailing tail.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Full circle, semi-circle, linear...

As long as children's names appear at the top of the topic list, it bares repeating.

I was referring to (without actually identifying) the few posts that opined that 'intervention' and, in essence, coddling addicts and bad parents are a waste of time and ineffective. Whereas, we are back to posts opining there should be 'better intervention', etc. Just makes me :sigh:

 

[vasportsmom]

PSA: Passive aggressive pointing and whispering does not lend itself to productive discussion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Seajay]

With TG's lack of parenting skills, I have to wonder why she didn't learn any from her own Mom. These thing are usually passed down. Of course, it could be she learned them but didn't care because her chase for drugs was more important than parenting was. IMO>

 

[3blue1pink]

TG specifically called her own mother out for being a poor parent . So either TG knew exactly what poor parenting consisted of or her mom was a worse mother than she was/is. Hard to believe that's even possible ...... Just sayin

 

[micki68]

With TG's lack of parenting skills, I have to wonder why she didn't learn any from her own Mom. These thing are usually passed down. Of course, it could be she learned them but didn't care because her chase for drugs was more important than parenting was. IMO>

Didn't TG claim her mother "was never a mother, I lived with my grandmother"? I am going to have to search the media links, but it could be her own mother had her own issues when Tania was younger. Now it is not clear if TG's kids were placed with her mom or TG arranged to have them live with her, either way I want to assume she has gotten over whatever her problems may have had and was able to give the kids a stable home.

 

[3blue1pink]

Didn't TG claim her mother "was never a mother, I lived with my grandmother"? I am going to have to search the media links, but it could be her own mother had her own issues when Tania was younger. Now it is not clear if TG's kids were placed with her mom or TG arranged to have them live with her, either way I want to assume she has gotten over whatever her problems may have had and was able to give the kids a stable home.

She did. Hence my above post . It was in the 1st interview she did on video .

 

[3blue1pink]

Here's where she talk about her bio mom.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/i-se...n-upset-after-cps-takes-other-child/15142091/

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I don't pay attention to when I leave someplace. Of course, because I don't know at that moment that I might need to know the exact time later that I left. The most I could do would be at say 11 ish, 11:15 ish.

Sometimes I use my cell phone to figure out what time something happened. Like if I got a text right when I got to the grocery store, or I remember getting a phone call as I was at the gas station. Also, some people are weirdly OCD about numbers and clocks! My sister can't stand the thermostat in the house to be set on an odd number lol!!

 

[MzOpinion8d]

A few photos of the kids now and then are not an issue, and for parents in-the-know it might be typical as they want to easily share photos with family and friends. It is when there are numerous photos snapped regularly in locations frequented by the family / children. Criminals use the data to trend and predict and plan for opportunities.

In TG's case we might safely assume the 'lifestyle' images played a significant role, with the lifestyle binge all-absorptive of her time and attention with the children hanging on to the ever-flailing tail.

Another thought about the photos: it also makes a difference when the kids aren't in the custody of the parent. Still follows my original train of thought on what is important to the parent, but it's another reason why there are fewer photos of the kids.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

bbm



Understood. no harm no foul! ;-)

I agree with the rest of your post except: the main thing that TG did that blindly (TG was oblivious) led to Isabella's tragic end is TG exposed her children to JJR. We can not be entirely sure if TG had made lunches ahead of time and tucked in Isabella that it would have prevented JJR from eventually doing what he wanted to do, albeit it we might assume it would have made it more difficult. I just think it important to keep separate TG's assumed-'bad parenting' (lunch, bed tuck, keep an eye on) from TG's exposing her children to a criminal element ... I believe that to be THE critical failure.

Agreed. Mainly my point was that even with that exposure to the criminal element, I would have a lot more compassion for her if the other signs of stable parenting were in place. It's the same with Jenise's parents...it's absolutely true that GG may have still killed Jenise, but if they had been supervising her the way a 6 year old should be supervised and it still happened, I would feel compassion for them instead of anger.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I was referring to (without actually identifying) the few posts that opined that 'intervention' and, in essence, coddling addicts and bad parents are a waste of time and ineffective. Whereas, we are back to posts opining there should be 'better intervention', etc. Just makes me :sigh:

There are just so many factors that have to be aligned to make improvements. The substance abusers need to be identified. Their parenting needs to be assessed. The substance abuse must be addressed. There needs to be supervision and education if the parenting is found lacking, or removal of the children if it's bad enough. There must be enough safe homes for these children to be placed in, and enough treatment and education options for the addict. Beyond this, there MUST be consequences if the first attempts are unsuccessful. Don't let these kids be left in homes where their parents are not being responsible. If they lose their kids once, get them back, and then screw up again that should be IT. No more chances to hurt the kids! Supervised visits if the parents are capable of following some rules but don't let them go back. And, the authorities involved should be held accountable if they decide to return children and they end up hurt or dead (Powell boys for example!).

Sadly, there are some who truly are beyond help. If that's how they want to live, fine...just get the kids to safety. I am so scared of what's going to happen to Bella's sister. She is so vulnerable to becoming an addict herself, having severe depression or even suicidal thoughts because she feels like she should have saved Bella and had to give LE info that potentially incriminate her own mother. She hasn't had her own father's influence and her mom's boyfriend is a criminal. I pray the girls haven't been sexually abused but I've seen some photos in which the girls appear older than they are, making them even more vulnerable to predators.

As I mentioned, I work in substance abuse treatment. I am going to compile a notebook with photos and info on kids who die because of their parents' poor choices due to substance abuse, and make it available to every client I see. If any of you know of specific cases off the top of your head, will you message me with the info?

 

[MzOpinion8d]

OT: Is it just me, or is having actual command of the English language and/or spelling and proper grammar seem to be a rarity on SM? Sorry it bugs the living daylights out of me . I want to scream . TOO ! Not, TO! Lol

It's bad on Bella's FB pages, but incredibly, it is even worse on FB pages related to Colton Brandt Turner. There were a few things that I had to skip because I couldn't figure out what they were trying to say, even by autocorrecting in my brain what their phones may have autocorrected!

 

[perfectingpink]

I completely agree. Although, I can understand why, in TG's life experiences, she was unable to discern what pro-active parenting means. I am NOT in any way defending her or her actions, but I do understand that she is a product of her environment - probably uneducated, no instinctal parenting skills or common sense. I do not think that should be an excuse but it does raise a productive question - Why wasn't there better intervention, especially since she already had a child removed?

There needs to be a better system in place. Whether it be parenting classes in high schools, CPS monitoring of known drug abusers, LE reporting of children at risk when parents are involve with criminal elements and community awareness with timely reporting.

Sadly, this will not be the last time this happens to a child.

I have to say, I am at a loss to what intervention can help parents like Tania. The state can demand they go to parenting classes, but you cannot demand they believe what they learn in the parenting classes. I do not believe people that have not had good examples set for them by their own parents are destined to fail and repeat, but they are at a higher risk (especially if they have no desire to better themselves).

 

[Really?]

I can't offer anything rational behind it. It was late and I was feeling sad and frustrated. I don't think God "takes" children in order for them to avoid bad things...if He did, we would have a lot less kids in this world.

I am so angry and saddened by people attempting to defend the parents in situations like this. Yes, I get it that ultimately the person who killed the child holds the responsibility. But the parents that place their kids in dangerous situations hold liability for these kids' deaths! It's NOT OKAY that Jenise Wright was allowed to roam her neighborhood for hours on end. And that's NOT a mistake "any" of us could make. It's NOT OKAY that Bella was exposed to drugs and criminals. Again, not a mistake "any" of us could make.

I'm a pretty laid back person and work with many people who are on the fringes of society (substance abusers, mentally ill, and criminals). I get that they have a different mindset and don't always know better. But there is no excuse for Tania to have been allowing people like JR in her house. She has lost custody of her kids in the past. They make parents do parenting classes and get counseling and have drug tests in order to get custody back. If the well-being of her kids was her priority, she would not have been exposing them to drug use. She would not have been exposing them to criminals. She would have had them tucked in at 8 or 9 pm, they wouldn't have been awake playing hide and seek at 11:30 PM. She would have already had their snacks and lunch foods ready for the next week so she didn't have to leave her house at nearly midnight. JR being at their house would have been very noticeable because a)he is a felon that shouldn't have been around and b)he shouldn't have been coming around that late and c)Tania would have actually been paying enough attention to know something wasn't right.

If those circumstances had been present that night, I would NOT be holding TG accountable. I would be thinking how sad it is that a mom who had made some mistakes had been trying to make her life right and some creep she'd known back in the day had come around and committed a horrifying crime and she'd had no way of knowing what a crazy person he was because she hadn't been around him or others who knew him. (Sorry about the run on sentence.)

That's the deal. SHE KNEW BETTER and chose NOT to protect her kids.

Thank you. Well said.

It was a party house. moo