Baez - Just Lost The Trial

[ami]

Well, a great big honkin' clue for them would have been if there was an exterior door unlocked! Little Caylee surely wouldn't have locked a door behind her.

We heard Cindy describe in detail how 'child-proof' the house was. Cindy even stated that Casey was the one who went out and bought the child-proofing materials. (I seriously doubt that.)

[snipped for space]

Seriously, though, the very thought that little Caylee would have enough upper body strength and in her arms to slide a heavy glass door open even if it were unlocked is ridiculous. JMO.

MOO's

The thing is, GA stated in an interview that Caylee did open the sliding doors onto the ??sun room?? - I think he said something like: not the screen, she didn't go outside, but she would open the door (or something).

ITA that if a small child left the house, they'd leave the door open. No way would GA and KC extensively search rooms in a house whose doors opened on the back yard, not notice one of the doors was open, and subsequently save the back yard for last in the search.

Also, is JB trying to say that GA ALSO had "ugly coping" just like KC, which kept both of them pretending everything was completely ok? I think in his attempt to implicate GA, he also put the defense in the position of having GA "ugly coping" and being a brilliant actor "everything is fine!!!" after discovering his granddaughter dead, holding this beloved child's dead body in his arms.

Wouldn't it be MUCH MORE believable if it was JUST KC, just a confused, possibly abused young mother in denial, in her fear starting a chain of events she could not seem to back out of. Having not one but TWO grown men also involved in the cover up, also acting like normal while shuttling a child's body around the neighborhood and keeping quiet for 3 years as (at least in GA's case) his daughter came closer and closer to a death penalty level trial.... I cannot imagine how someone could think to sell even the IDEA of that - never mind the details - to your average thinking adult.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

[. As for the sentencing phase...if I were on this jury, the state would have to prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is a case of premeditated murder before I could vote for the death penalty. Before everyone throws tomatoes at me, let me explain why I feel that way. This was a 22 year old woman at the time of Caylee's death. The ME has been unable to determine cause of death. That leaves many likely scenario's in my mind, and I doubt the state will be able to definitely prove any one of them. (I'm still waiting to hear the forensic evidence...especially wrt the duct tape before I state that with certainty. The duct tape matters a GREAT DEAL to me). We have an obviously mentally unbalanced girl here...by ICA's own admission, if we are to believe what she told AZ prior to Caylee having gone missing. Could ICA have simply snapped? I don't know...we'll have to see how it plays out in court. But if I were on this jury, and I was left with any question about whether or not a very young mother could have emotionally snapped and killed her daughter, I don't know that I could justify a recommendation for the death penalty. LWOP, absolutely. Death penalty? That would be hard for me.

Respectfully snipped. But here is the problem...if a juror feels the way you do, he/she could not in good conscience find her guilty of first degree murder. You have to decide the guilt before sentincing. You are asking them to prove it without a doubt after the conviction. Sentencing is about mitigation and or/ aggravating factors to determine if the DP is warranted

I understand how verdict and sentencing works, Snoopy. I was just typing and thinking at the same time, so my thoughts probably appear a bit out of sequence.

 

[Tipstaff]

JB's story of GA walking out with Caylee in his arms after finding her in the pool has one detail missing for me..........if George went into the pool he would be dripping wet and even assuming Caylee was at the edge of the pool George would be wet.

Devil is in the details and JB skipped the details in putting his/her story together.

 

[crimesnooper]

I understand how verdict and sentencing works, Snoopy. I was just typing and thinking at the same time, so my thoughts probably appear a bit out of sequence.

Well that explains it. I love the "snoopy" LOL

 

[logicalgirl]

I think what worries me about the alligations of sexual abuse is if one of the jurors were ever abused themselves, they would have sympathy for her. You combine that with JB and his "Casey's World" remarks, and then CA's telling just how far ICA's lies went - over and over- I don't see it as a stretch for a juror to start thinking she really did make up this fantasy world to "escape the hurt"...and bingo. JB has his 1 juror.

I agree - this was the one good move Baez has made, as ugly as his "allegations" have been, people do have a visceral reaction to sexual abuse. Look what has happened on our own threads. As implausible as Baez's theories are, those of us who have been abused have jumped into the threads in anger, saying how can you question this, you don't know what it is like, because sexual abusers do this or that, and survivors feel this and that, so how dare these "allegations" be discounted. It is a hot button and I think Baez used it deliberately.
We all have a twinge of guilt in discounting claims of sexual abuse, because those of us who have suffered suggest we are turning our backs on all of them - that those who were not believed in true cases are being denied justice all over again.
To those survivors who feel we are being unreasonable automatically denying Baez's claims - I would only suggest that these discussions are based on ICA only. This is a woman who has lied all of her life. She has woven elaborate, deliberate lies about even the smallest details of her life. She is highly manipulative and plays people for the amusement of it, and to feel powerful.
We saw her reaction yesterday in recess when CA clearly stepped out of the web of lies and testified in a manner indicating she was no longer on the ICA "team". And we saw the fury ICA has no trouble letting loose when something has not gone as she has scripted.
If ICA really had been abused by her father as Baez claimed, can you really believe she would not use this rage against him in day to day life if he even attempted anything inappropriate? That rage she displayed in court was the rage of a child having a temper tantrum. I believe she has always had this kind of loss of control since she was a child. This isn't a skill or trait that developed suddenly in adulthood.
So in a word, do I believe Baez's allegations in his opening statements? No.

To add the nonsense of Kronk somehow taking Caylee's body :waitasec: , moving and disposing of it for the reward $$, plus TL denying ICA ever said George abused her, plus George's absolute denial of the abuse on the stand, makes it very clear the Defense Team is wandering aimlessly around in the wilderness with no clear compass to find their way out of the mess they made in only five days.
The Stats so far? Baez: -10 The SA- +95

 

[suzihawk]

This may be a tad OT for this thread, but since it relates to Baez's total ineptness, I'm posting it here.

On Friday after a lengthy sidebar where they are debating whether or not the shopping videos should come into evidence, Baez renews his objections where he "requires a foundation", whereupon HHJP reacts in total and utter astonishment. After a long pause, HHJP responds, "YOU require a foundation?! ... Yeah... approach the sidebar". A moment worth watching again and again, BTW. :floorlaugh At @ 9:00 on the following:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28048674/index.html

After yet another lengthy sidebar where I assume HHJP is schooling Baez - again, he returns to the podium to renew his objections and I firmly believe he commits a monumental Freudian slip. He says, "When I give Ms. Drane-Burdick my word, it is my word, and I do NOT INTEND TO HON... uh... revoking that in any way, shape or form.". At @ 1:05 here:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28048894/index.html

I'd bet my life the word underlined above was 'honor' but he caught himself just in time. What say you good folks?

 

[matou]

Jose Baez stated in his opening remarks that Caylee died due to a tragic accident - a drowning in the family pool. Baez goes on to give a touching story but is it rooted in reality?

I don't think so and I'll tell you why

This is what Baez stated in his opening remarks;

"Early morning hours the exact time is not known...it could have been early afternoon...early morning...actually it was the early morning hours. George Anthony approached Casey and started yelling at her - where's Caylee, where's Caylee? They began to search the house, they couldn't find her, they searched in the bedrooms, they searched under the beds, in the closets, in the garage, then they went outside. This is a mock up of the Anthony home where you'll see they both came outside. Casey came around to the left of the house, George went that way towards the pool, they have an above ground pool with a ladder, and we'll talk about the pool and the ladder in just a moment. What happened next is as soon as Casey came around this corner and went back she saw George Anthony holding Caylee in his arms."

Keeping in mind that opening statements are not evidence but if you present them to a jury you had better hope that you can back them up and this is where Baez scores a huge fail.

There is no way there is enough time for George to...

1 find Caylee in the pool
2 climb the ladder
3 get in the pool
4 grab Caylee
5 remove Caylee and himself from the pool
6 climb back down the ladder
7 walk back to the opposite corner of the house where Casey is just returning

The corridor at the side of the house that Casey is alleged to have gone to is a small and very narrow space with a locked shed at the end of the corridor with no where for Caylee to hide - it would probably only take about 20 seconds to walk there and back to the edge of the house - so no way no how is this going to fly with a jury.

LDB crafted a brilliantly clever and concise presentation and made very sure to do this step by careful step with Cindy, to lay out the dimensions of the house, the garden and the pool area - complete with photographic evidence of how small a space they are talking about. I've no doubt this was quickly put together by the state when they heard Baez's opening remarks.

Still don't believe me, well just to put the icing on the cake when Baez attempts to throw Cindy into the mix as a possible accomplice - Cindy refutes this utterly and completely believably by thwarting him with her testimony that she removed that pool ladder.

Casey's pool story is busted as a complete fabrication.

Baez just lost the trial in the 1.40 mins it took him to tell that story.

Hi darnudes! I've been watching the trial when I can and I am just a newbie to this case overall. I just thought of something that I'm not sure was brought up yet about the supposed drowning. George would have had to get Caylee's body from the bottom of the pool since she would have sunk to the bottom. Not sure how deep the pool is. When people drown they sink. Bodies only float after they have been dead for awhile. He would have had to get into the pool and gotten right in there, under the water to get her out, that's the only way. This ploy is bs. JMO

 

[strawberry]

http://eggtreenews.wordpress.com/20...soap-opera-plot-in-lieu-of-opening-statement/

In a move of astonishing incompetence, lead defense “attorney” Jose Baez delivered a half-baked Telemundo soap opera plot in lieu of an opening statement yesterday in the murder trial of Casey Anthony.

 

[logicalgirl]

This may be a tad OT for this thread, but since it relates to Baez's total ineptness, I'm posting it here.

On Friday after a lengthy sidebar where they are debating whether or not the shopping videos should come into evidence, Baez renews his objections where he "requires a foundation", whereupon HHJP reacts in total and utter astonishment. After a long pause, HHJP responds, "YOU require a foundation?! ... Yeah... approach the sidebar". A moment worth watching again and again, BTW. :floorlaugh At @ 9:00 on the following:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28048674/index.html

After yet another lengthy sidebar where I assume HHJP is schooling Baez - again, he returns to the podium to renew his objections and I firmly believe he commits a monumental Freudian slip. He says, "When I give Ms. Drane-Burdick my word, it is my word, and I do NOT INTEND TO HON... uh... revoking that in any way, shape or form.". At @ 1:05 here:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28048894/index.html

I'd bet my life the word underlined above was 'honor' but he caught himself just in time. What say you good folks?

Absolutely agree! HHJP's reaction was classic! That moment of pause before he made the "YOU" response was ...:lol: ..it was subtle and I don't know if most caught it but I was on the floor laughing, and thank heavens for the sidebar so when Baez then made his next blooper I heard that one also.

For a moment there I thought my channel had changed and I was watching stand-up comedy.

 

[ami]

http://eggtreenews.wordpress.com/20...soap-opera-plot-in-lieu-of-opening-statement/

In a move of astonishing incompetence, lead defense “attorney” Jose Baez delivered a half-baked Telemundo soap opera plot in lieu of an opening statement yesterday in the murder trial of Casey Anthony.

Corrupt cadaver dogs, lol.

 

[Oakley]

Also, the way he worded it--"They began to search the house, they couldn't find her, they searched in the bedrooms, they searched under the beds, in the closets, in the garage, then they went outside."

That is the exact opposite of what a parent with a pool would do. If your toddler, who loves the swimming pool is MISSING-- why would you check in the closets and under all of the beds BEFORE checking the pool? That makes no sense.

I have found 'missing kids' under the bed asleep and hiding in closets before, and they have been safe and sound. That is NOT the first place you need to look if there is a big
body of water out back. And I am pretty sure they both know that. And why would they both stay inside and search? Wouldn't one run outside first thing?

BBM Kind of reminds me of the awkward phrasing of Casey's LE interview. :waitasec: Could you see Casey dictating and Jose writing?

 

[yllek]

That's what I'm worried about, that JB himself is doing so much stupid stuff because he wants to cause a mistrial? Can he make himself appear to be so incompetent of defending the accused, that there is a mistrial?

Can that happen?

I think Baez cares way more about making a name for himself and his future than he cares about Casey. I wouldn't put it past him to try and slide things in that may give cause for an appeal if Casey is convicted, but not getting a mistrial or appeal on the grounds of attorney incompetence. JMO...

 

[SoCalSleuth]

I don't think the jurors will even have to consider whether or not KC was molested or not,or whether or not Caylee was floating or at the bottom of the pool, for this one simple reason: who covers up an accidental death by claiming it was a murder? Defies logic, defies common sense.

 

[zoey]

http://eggtreenews.wordpress.com/20...soap-opera-plot-in-lieu-of-opening-statement/

In a move of astonishing incompetence, lead defense “attorney” Jose Baez delivered a half-baked Telemundo soap opera plot in lieu of an opening statement yesterday in the murder trial of Casey Anthony.

Thanks for providing that link...couldn't have said it better

 

[Crabcake23]

I also think that ICA bursting into tears upon seeing her father carry a wet, drowned child isn't right. I'd be hysterical, a maniac, screaming into the phone at 911 and doing mouth to mouth, even if the child was obviously gone. I wouldn't see my dad and child and just burst out into tears, as JB alleges. Takes a few minutes for the reality of the situation to process this and tears to start. One would have to go through shock and denial first, right?

 

[Oakley]

Welcome to CaseyWorld, a land of make-believe where this story found its origins. The fact that we are even discussing its plausibility gives us some idea of how persuasive she can be.

The depth of Casey's pathology is mind-boggling to me. I studied this stuff back in psych classes, read books about it, but never saw it played out like this. Fascinating but very heavy to experience. While Cindy was recounting all the lies, even though they weren't new to me, I almost felt myself getting sucked into the vortex of this delusional world in which Cindy lived with Casey's lies. It was scary. And yes, I think Jose sees the light at the end of the hallway. Expect more theatrics, JMO

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Well that explains it. I love the "snoopy" LOL

I didn't know what you were talking about at first. Had to read your reply 3 times. Then I finally went back and read my original post. Sure enough it began with the words, "As to the sentencing phase..." and then plowed right into talking about the verdict. :floorlaugh:

Anyway, you're SUPPOSED to know what I mean, not what I actually type! Stop bothering me with tricksy details like basic composition! :crazy:

 

[A_News_Junkie]

Great catch on the time it would take GA to get Caylee out of the pool.

And of course the jury may not know but we all do....GA loved Caylee so much that there is no way he could have gone into work that afternoon if Caylee had just died.

I think JB has just spend too much time reading blogs and took a little bit from all the different ones he read and tried to merge them all together.

As in JB your MISSION failed! Waste, huge waste!

oh and ABSOLUTELY!

 

[ZsaZsa]

I think he lost the jurors when he couldn't decide when it happened:
"Early morning hours the exact time is not known...it could have been early afternoon...early morning...actually it was the early morning hours...." Sounded like he was making it up as he was going.

HUH?

They should frame that opening sentence and hang it on the wall in the Useless Lawyers Hall of Fame. Just when you think JB can't say anything more ridiculous he outdoes himself! :loser:

 

[Doodlelover]

The one thing that has bothered me the whole time about the "George and Casey cover up the drowining accident" theory is this:

Unfortunately many many children die accidentally every day, many of them are drowning accidents. How many of these parents or caregivers have you ever heard of that tried to cover up the accident with a kidnapping and murder story? I personally have never heard of any. I have heard of people using an accident story to cover a muder but never a murder story to cover an accident. That would not be logical. An accident is an accident. No one would be on trial with a death penalty sitting on the table for an accident.

So, what are the odds of a so called normal young Mom covering up an accidental death of her daughter especially if she was THERE when her daughter was just found. The odds are slim to none. There would be screaming, trying to revive the child, frantic calls for help, 911 and so on. ONE of them would have done something to help Caylee, CPR, call for help, something.

The odds of a mother automatically going into coverup mode are slim BUT, the odds of the childs Grandfather also being present and not doing the normal things, like CPR, 911 are ZERO!! ONE of them would have reacted "normally"

It's hard enough to believe that one person would go into cover up mode but for the other person to do it too, very unbelievable. You would have to have TWO people automatically agreeing to cover up a child drowning accident. WHY?? If it was an accident. Your mind goes to help the child, fix it, make it better, not hide it and if it did go to hide and cover up the accident for one of the people present, the other would have been the voice of reason or the one screaming call 911, get help.

So,,,, what I'm trying to say is it's hard to believe a loving parent would not try to get help and or break down seeing their dead child, but in Casey's case, somewhat possible, but for a second present, loving relative to react the same "inappropriate" way, totally improbable. That would mean there were 2 exact "non normal" reactions from 2 separate people at the same time that would normally be 1 in a million acting that way to a drowning death.

All it really comes down to is "why cover up an accidental drowning that has 2 witnesses that it WAS an accident that has little to no legal consequences with a long drawn out kidnapping/ murder story that has you facing the death penalty?"

The answer: Because she doesn't have any witnesses as to what did happen and it wasn't accidental!