GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #5

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From the Chicago Sun Times:
In an emailed statement, von Wiese-Mack’s brother, William A. Wiese wrote: “Reading the criminal complaint against Bibbs is very difficult, agonizing and sad, but it starts to give a glimpse into what really happened in the brutal murder of our dear sister, Sheila. I am so thankful for the tireless work of the FBI and US Justice Department in seeking justice for Sheila. The powerful and overwhelming evidence from the text messages quoted in the criminal complaint appear to demonstrate premeditation and a complete and utter lack of remorse from Schafer and Mack.”



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spangled said:
Just read the complaint in full. Absolutely shocking!! It really says a huge amount about how involved TS was. This was not a situation of him being manipulated in to it. He wanted money.
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Yeah, I read it too. TS's motivation was certainly the money. Some things also become clear:

Q. Why did HM fraudulently obtain prescription drugs in Bali (according to her mother's email to a friend before the murder)?
A. She had tried to give her mother an overdose.

Q. Why was there so much blood on the pillowcases after the murder?
A. HM and TS had tried to suffocate Sheila.

Oh, and TS said in his defence that Sheila had racially abused him by calling him the N word, yet the texts between him, HM and Bibbs are peppered with this word.

We have to assume that the Prosecution in Bali knew about all this during the trial and yet HM was only sentenced to 10 years.

Yes, it is truly shocking.
 
IslandLover said:
Yeah, I read it too. TS's motivation was certainly the money. Some things also become clear:

Q. Why did HM fraudulently obtain prescription drugs in Bali (according to her mother's email to a friend before the murder)?
A. She had tried to give her mother an overdose.

Q. Why was there so much blood on the pillowcases after the murder?
A. HM and TS had tried to suffocate Sheila.

Oh, and TS said in his defence that Sheila had racially abused him by calling him the N word, yet the texts between him, HM and Bibbs are peppered with this word.

We have to assume that the Prosecution in Bali knew about all this during the trial and yet HM was only sentenced to 10 years.

Yes, it is truly shocking.
Click to expand...

Yes they did.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bali-heather-mack-warrant-met-20150908-story.html (This was posted earlier in the month. Published Sept. 8).
Federal authorities flew Indonesian law enforcement officials to Chicago at least twice in recent months to answer questions as part of the ongoing investigation, the Tribune has learned.

The FBI, which has an office in the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia, was involved in the murder investigation from the onset. Besides ensuring that the victim's remains were flown back to the United States, federal agents assisted Bali police with technical support related to texts and emails on phones and computers that belonged to the victim and defendants.

So the Bali prosecutor was privy to all this info. I've wondered how those discussions went between the FBI and the Indonesians that were flown here to the US to answer questions?????

FBI: So how much money did you make from letting these two off so easy?
Bali Law Enforcement: Who me? I didn't make anything!!

The complaint against the cousin has come out right before this:
Lawyers in the trust fund case return to court in October. They are expected to meet with a mediator before then to try to come to agreement on Mack's access to the money. I believe the date is on the Chancery.

Setting this up to invoke the slayer statue, I hope? WW's quote (I listed it above) speaks of the premeditation HM had in the murder. I also hope they figure out a way that HM can not benefit from any $$ through Stella. I thought Stella was not suppose to be a part of this, since she was born after Sheila was killed. For her sake, I hope they decide Stella can't inherit either. Then HM won't have any benefit from her, and may release her before her second birthday. I hope Stella can be extradited here.
 
ajaylee said:
Re-reading about this case this morning and something strikes me.

The FBI was in Indonesia helping out almost immediately after SWM was murdered. The Indonesian authorities had TS's and HM's phones, although it appears that no one cracked HM's phone.

Why did the prosecution still present a BS case about an argument, racial slurs, rage killing? They had ample evidence of the months of discussion and the up-to-the-minute communications immediately before and after the killing. It had nothing to do with rage or an argument and everything to do with cold-blooded planning. They had irrefutable evidence of a premeditated murder, yet chose to go with a much weaker case based on testimony about what went on behind closed doors. Evidence of the prosecution's incompetence or that the 'fix' was in to make sure TS and HM avoided the death penalty?

Something else I'm curious about: did TS know HM was pregnant? There's no mention of it in any of the texts we've seen so far.

From the texts released, it appears that both HM and TS tried to hedge their bets - "you do it - no, you go first". HM thinks because she hid in the bathroom, she's off the hook on a technicality. She should read up on 'accessory to murder' laws in the US - people who help commit a murder are often just as guilty as the person who actually performs the act. TS texted Ryan that in a couple years, he planned to have at least a couple million under his name. Ryan seems to advise him to take a long view - treat HM right and the gravy train could continue indefinitely.

Sounds more like two players playing each other than two young people blind in love.
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Why did the prosecution still present a BS case about an argument, racial slurs, rage killing?

I thought that was the Defence's argument, not the Prosecution's, or have I got that wrong?
 
One thing that has never been explained, and which I find curious, is why did HM and SvWM leave the first hotel (The W Retreat) and move to the St. Regis?

Is it because they were perhaps "encouraged" to leave the W Retreat because of HM's behaviour? IIRC during the investigation into the murder we heard from the St. Regis staff that both SvWM and HM had engaged in behaviour that was not befitting guests of the prestigious St. Regis hotel. I took that to mean the constant arguments (i.e. shouting matches) in front of staff and other guests. Just speculation of course.
 
IslandLover said:
One thing that has never been explained, and which I find curious, is why did HM and SvWM leave the first hotel (The W Retreat) and move to the St. Regis?

Is it because they were perhaps "encouraged" to leave the W Retreat because of HM's behaviour? IIRC during the investigation into the murder we heard from the St. Regis staff that both SvWM and HM had engaged in behaviour that was not befitting guests of the prestigious St. Regis hotel. I took that to mean the constant arguments (i.e. shouting matches) in front of staff and other guests. Just speculation of course.
Click to expand...

I know that early on there was a discussion of SVW using points for her stay. Also, it is not uncommon to visit both areas in Bali. Seminyak is a very busy, touristy area...Nusa Dua is a quieter area with better beaches.
 
In the People magazine interview, HM says she thought having a baby would be like having a puppy, but it's so much more.

It would appear that she still doesn't understand that babies (and puppies) need to be kept clean. She claims Stella developed a large abscess on her arm and that she struggled for weeks with multiple clinic visits and at least one hospital trip before finding out that it was an infection from a shot. Now she's cleaning it three times a day. Um....perhaps if she had kept Stella clean, the infection wouldn't have developed and persisted for so long.

I wish People and other interviewers would ask HM to set up a time to interview both her and TS. I'd like to hear what he has to say about things. HM must be frantically trying to evade the court order to chat with Bibbs.
 
An exclusive interview with Heather and a "family friend" (who, no surprise, chooses to remain nameless) about her life with Sheila. I wonder if this was done before the texts were made public or if HM even knows the texts are now public before piling more lies on top of lies? I also don't believe a word the "family friend" is saying unless they want to put their name on the record. And even so, that's still no reason to plan a murder.

I also notice the "trust" is now being listed at 1.5 million dollars. James Mack didn't have 1.5 million dollars to leave to HM in trust. I wonder if she provided that number or if the People reporter didn't do their homework and fact check as usual.

http://www.people.com/article/exclusive-interview-heather-mack-complicated-violent-relationship
 
Kamille said:
I guess this was the cousin who was pictured with TS in the "find the joint" pic on his Instagram while waiting at the airport? The same one who was also defending him on IG when TS's comments on his account were negative?

:notgood:
Click to expand...

Does anyone have those pics at the ready? I can't remember if there was a name attached to the pic or not :fence:
 
Kamille said:
An exclusive interview with Heather and a "family friend" (who, no surprise, chooses to remain nameless) about her life with Sheila. I wonder if this was done before the texts were made public or if HM even knows the texts are now public before piling more lies on top of lies? I also don't believe a word the "family friend" is saying unless they want to put their name on the record. And even so, that's still no reason to plan a murder.

I also notice the "trust" is now being listed at 1.5 million dollars. James Mack didn't have 1.5 million dollars to leave to HM in trust. I wonder if she provided that number or if the People reporter didn't do their homework and fact check as usual.

http://www.people.com/article/exclusive-interview-heather-mack-complicated-violent-relationship
Click to expand...

Interesting, I think we had already known it was a dysfunctional relationship. Something of a twist here though caught my attention: Sheila was "drunk the whole time and taking prescription pain pills. I was so depressed I wouldn't even leave our room. I missed Tommy." . I think this interview may have come slightly before the Bibbs Complaint was filed and/or HM does not know what all was in that Complaint before speaking to People. There is nothing that could be said to undo the evidence.

As well, HM or Family Friend left out the part where HM filled the prescription and tried to overdose SWM. (mentioned in both SWM email, FBI Evidence, HM & TS txts) I was a nice attempt at turning the table to victim blaming, almost sadistic.

I think HM is trying to save face after the facts, sadly in the case of murder, it is not a he said she said matter. It is pretty black and white on paper, and no interview can undo what has been done.


There was a comment in that People's Article:
She describes her mother as the mother she has become. She's keeping her infant in prison with her saying the same things about her own daughter... How she can't live without her. Twisted cycle.
http://www.people.com/article/exclu...cated-violent-relationship#comment-2278728606
 
Bugbear said:
Interesting, I think we had already known it was a dysfunctional relationship. Something of a twist here though caught my attention: Sheila was "drunk the whole time and taking prescription pain pills. I was so depressed I wouldn't even leave our room. I missed Tommy." . I think this interview may have come slightly before the Bibbs Complaint was filed and/or HM does not know what all was in that Complaint before speaking to People. There is nothing that could be said to undo the evidence.

As well, HM or Family Friend left out the part where HM filled the prescription and tried to overdose SWM. (mentioned in both SWM email, FBI Evidence, HM & TS txts) I was a nice attempt at turning the table to victim blaming, almost sadistic.

I think HM is trying to save face after the facts, sadly in the case of murder, it is not a he said she said matter. It is pretty black and white on paper, and no interview can undo what has been done.


There was a comment in that People's Article:
She describes her mother as the mother she has become. She's keeping her infant in prison with her saying the same things about her own daughter... How she can't live without her. Twisted cycle.
http://www.people.com/article/exclu...cated-violent-relationship#comment-2278728606
Click to expand...

Also see the comments from "Seeks the truth". This person claims to know the family as well and the comments are very revealing. I've no doubt the relationship between mother and daughter was dysfunctional and most likely co-dependent in a way, but I still think HM is a calculating liar.
 
My thanks to the regulars that have maintained this thread, makes it easy to catch up. I apologize in advance for any redundant questions I may ask but I may need some help in refreshing my grasp on some of the finer details of the case. I am trying to remember if there was any evidence that there was an actual attempt of drugging SWM or if it was speculation based on us learning that HM had obtained drugs thru the hotel and SWM's subsequent knowledge of that mentioned in her email to her friend?
 
gracehatter said:
My thanks to the regulars that have maintained this thread, makes it easy to catch up. I apologize in advance for any redundant questions I may ask but I may need some help in refreshing my grasp on some of the finer details of the case. I am trying to remember if there was any evidence that there was an actual attempt of drugging SWM or if it was speculation based on us learning that HM had obtained drugs thru the hotel and SWM's subsequent knowledge of that mentioned in her email to her friend?
Click to expand...

The text messages cited in the federal charges against Ryan Bibbs, TS's cousin, tell the story. According to the texts, HM used the drugs on her mother but they didn't do the job.

gracehatter, I think all you really need to do to catch up is read the charging document against Bibbs. It excerpts relevant text exchanges between TS, Bibbs and HM.

A short summary: HM talked to TS as far back as February about killing SWM. The text conversations continued all the way to the moments before the murder, when TS was already in the room with SWM and HM. They include discussions about the methods considered, Bibbs' advice on not getting caught, last minute jitters when TS and HM are egging each other on to do the deed, both clearly wanting to keep his/her hands technically clean, TS's decision to do it 'for the family', and TS's admission to Bibbs that he not only didn't feel bad after the killing, he felt 'gucci' [great].
 
Thanks aj, the complaint is the one document, along with the court docket I have not read!
 
According to the timeline in the complaint, things happened shockingly fast.

08:57 - final text message (before killing)
09:51 - HM spotted on camera moving between the rooms
10:02 - TS texts Bibbs that it's over, lots of unanticipated blood, TS feels good - then ten minutes of conversation about sports!

One of TS's last texts was that his cellphone was at 1%. Did he actually put his phone on a charger after killing SWM and before starting to text Bibbs again after it was over?

I know I'm not the only one who wants to see HM and TS on the stand in a fair courtroom, reconciling their bogus Indonesian account of events with the text messages sent over a period of five months.
 
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