Bosma Murder Trial 02.10.16 - Day 7

[Honey_West]

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:36 AM
Court now hearing her qualifications and CV.

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:38 AM
She's qualified as a witness.

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:38 AM
"We're becoming quite familiar with powerpoint presentations in this trial," Assistant Crown Brett Moodie says. Now seeing another one about fingerprint analysis.

 

[SnoopCat]

You're right. My bad. May 13, not 12

 

[Honey_West]

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:40 AM
O'Rourke says she has conducted thousands of fingerprint analysis through the years.

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:41 AM
Court hearing about "friction ridges" - the raised skin on your fingertips. They're developed before we are born, and they're unique/never repeated.

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:41 AM
Identical twins might have similar fingerprints, but they're not identical.

 

[Kamille]

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 5m5 minutes ago
Next up: Colleen O'Rourke, a Halton police officer in identification unit. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Det. Const. Colleen O'Rourke, fingerprint expert with @HaltonPolice is on stand. Telling us about print analysis. #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Yet another power point presentation...this one is a 'narrowed down' one on fingerprint analysis. #Bosma

Nicole Martin ‏@nmartinCHCH 1m1 minute ago
O'rourke says she has compared thousands of fingerprints and has identified 127 individuals to date @CHCHNews #Bosma trial

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 48s48 seconds ago
Jury heard about fingerprint analysis from another expert last week. re: Millard print on rear view mirror of #Bosma truck.

 

[MsSherlock]

Yes, but it seems the trailer was unlocked the whole time. It tells me that the trailer was accessible from Kleinburg to Hamilton and from Hamilton until the trailer doors did an open Sesame and launched that strangely empty box. So even after sealing the locks ( minus the rear), the trailer was accessible to whoever was there at both locations, and also accessible prior to being checked at it's Tillsonburg destination. They are supposed to seal it completely for a reason. That is a big problem for LE in my opinion.

The officer put a seal on the back door at MB's house before it was transported. MOO

 

[Snowglobe]

If anything, this door flying open tells me that the trailer could not have travelled from the hangar to MB's house without being locked. Maybe someone unloaded something into MB's garage at some point and forgot to lock it up again, being in a rush and all.

Thanks for clearing up my confusion over the two trailers (and two tow trucks, sheesh).

Maybe the defence will tell stories of ghosts with their magic flying boxes.

 

[dar107]

I would think it would be double doors on that type of trailer. JMO

I would think so as well, which is confusing...if there was a padlock you would think it locked the two doors together. So how was it not secured? The padlock only went through the latch on one side?

 

[RandomName479]

Yes, but it seems the trailer was unlocked the whole time. It tells me that the trailer was accessible from Kleinburg to Hamilton and from Hamilton until the trailer doors did an open Sesame and launched that strangely empty box. So even after sealing the locks ( minus the rear), the trailer was accessible to whoever was there at both locations, and also accessible prior to being checked at it's Tillsonburg destination. They are supposed to seal it completely for a reason. That is a big problem for LE in my opinion.

How do you know it wasn't sealed?


Feb 10 2016 10:17 AM
Court now being shown more photos of the trailer, and the seals that Hamilton police put on it before it was towed back to Hamilton.


Feb 10 2016 10:46 AM
An OPP officer was there and let them into a large bay area in the facility where the trailer was parked. A new seal was then put on the back of the trailer.

The seal could have blown off when the doors flew open.....we truly don't know one way or another if that back door was sealed. (The pictures the jury saw may show) but I don't think you can make the assumption that it wasn't sealed based on testimony so far. Do you not think if the back WASN'T sealed Pillay would have jumped all over that?

 

[Kamille]

The officer put a seal on the back door at MB's house before it was transported. MOO

The back door was padlocked. They put a seal on it. They did not enter it as they did not have a warrant to do so once they had checked to make sure TB was not inside and it was pulled away from the garage. Not sure how they would be able to tell that a padlocked door on a trailer that none of them owned was not secured. :waitasec:

This was probably a known issue with the trailer, hence the need to quickly build a new one.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

How do you know it wasn't sealed?


Feb 10 2016 10:17 AM
Court now being shown more photos of the trailer, and the seals that Hamilton police put on it before it was towed back to Hamilton.


Feb 10 2016 10:46 AM
An OPP officer was there and let them into a large bay area in the facility where the trailer was parked. A new seal was then put on the back of the trailer.

The seal could have blown off when the doors flew open.....we truly don't know one way or another if that back door was sealed. (The pictures the jury saw may show) but I don't think you can make the assumption that it wasn't sealed based on testimony so far. Do you not think if the back WASN'T sealed Pillay would have jumped all over that?

There are evidence pictures of the seals floating around so we can grab those later.

 

[Honey_West]

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:42 AM
She got a fingerprint lift in relation to this investigation.

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:45 AM
According to the "lift card," the print in question is from a driver's side door, right door handle.

 

[Honey_West]

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:48 AM
Court now being shown a photo of the front driver side door of Bosma's truck, where the print was taken. "It's a good surface to have a print deposited on," O'Rourke says.

 

[Kamille]

Adam CarterVerified account ‏@AdamCarterCBC 4m4 minutes ago
O'Rourke got a fingerprint lift in relation to this investigation. #HamOnt #TimBosma

Sean Leathong ‏@SeanLCHCH 1m1 minute ago Hamilton, Ontario
O'Rourke was able to lift a print in this case. @CHCHNews #Bosma #MillardSmich

Nicole Martin ‏@nmartinCHCH 1m1 minute ago
Justice Goodman looking at print. Origin of print - Drivers side door -right of car handle @CHCHNews #TimBosma murder trial

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
She got a print for analysis from the driver's door of the #Bosma truck.

Nicole Martin ‏@nmartinCHCH 1m1 minute ago
O'Rourke says before a print is lifted it is photographed. @CHCHNews #Bosma

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 4m4 minutes ago
Truck door is a good surface for obtaining a print because it's smooth. #Bosma

Sean Leathong ‏@SeanLCHCH 3m3 minutes ago Hamilton, Ontario
Print was lifted from drivers side door of #Bosma truck. Located just to the right of the handle. @CHCHNews #MillardSmich

Nicole Martin ‏@nmartinCHCH 3m3 minutes ago
O'Rourke says the door was a smooth surface, black in colour allowing for a contrast amplifying the print @CHCHNews #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 4m4 minutes ago
A car door is a "good smooth surface" to develop a print, she explains. Dark solid paint also allows for contrast. #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
Car doors are also a common place they look--places that people would typically touch (court heard this earlier re: rear view mirror) #Bosma

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
The "matrix" is the substance the print is made from. Usually sweat and oil. When cops print someone, the matrix is ink. #Bosma

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Seeing photo of print on truck door. #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Court being shown a closeup of print on truck door, after 'fingerprinting dust' was applied to enhance impression #Bosma

 

[Ontario Mom]

The back door was padlocked. They put a seal on it. They did not enter it as they did not have a warrant to do so once they had checked to make sure TB was not inside and it was pulled away from the garage. Not sure how they would be able to tell that a padlocked door on a trailer that none of them owned was not secured. :waitasec:

This was probably a known issue with the trailer, hence the need to quickly build a new one.

MOO

Which is exactly why I went back to clarify what I posted when I said the officers on scene "handled" the doors. I was sure I read a lock was placed on the doors - and that would naturally cause a person to assume the doors were secure. I mean, it's a lock, for crying out loud - that's what they're for. To secure things. To me, this doesn't look bad for LE at all, it looks like they did all they could to secure that trailer, without being psychic and knowing the doors weren't properly latched.

 

[Tamarind]

The officer put a seal on the back door at MB's house before it was transported. MOO

I missed that link. Do you have it? I thought he just said he sealed the trailer, it could mean he sealed the door he entered (on side)

 

[Honey_West]

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:49 AM
It's good because it's a smooth surface, and a colour that allows for contrast. The door handle is a common place for police to look for prints, she says.

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:50 AM
The print was left through normal sweat and oils.

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:50 AM
Because the truck was black, grey fingerprint powder was used to check for prints.

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:52 AM
Now discussing the "deposition pressure" - the way pressure can cause a print to distort and flatten on a surface.

 

[Kamille]

Nicole Martin ‏@nmartinCHCH 2m2 minutes ago
O'Rourke is talking about the pressure used when the print was applied. Moderate pressure gives a clear print @CHCHNews #Bosma

Nicole Martin ‏@nmartinCHCH 57s57 seconds ago
O'Rourke says she concluded that the quality of print was "good" and then they could move forward to print comparison @CHCHNews #Bosma

 

[Honey_West]

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:53 AM
Has happened twice now in this trial - whenever we talk about fingerprints, people in the body of the court start examining their own fingertips.

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 11:56 AM
Analyst now talking about the levels of detail: pattern types, loops, whorls and arches, and the overall ridge flow on fingerprints.

 

[Honey_West]

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[Kamille]

Lock and seal on back door. Looks like only one door on that trailer. Which is weird. The weight of that door would cause it to fly open if not really secure. I wonder if they built this one too?