Bosma Murder Trial 02.22.16 - Day 12

[Ontario Mom]

They make generators that are extremely quiet now. The barn was mentioned as a possible source of power. Also, in inverter could have been used in a vehicle. I believe the burn likely did happen at the hanger, but the need for electricity doesn't necessarily prove that it did. MOO

I don't know a thing about the newer ones but I'll take your word for it. The only ones I've ever been around are noisy and you can tell even from a distance, someone's got a genny running. Are the quiet ones the newer ones?

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter 3:21 PM
Now back in court. Just waiting on the jury.

Adam Carter 3:22 PM
Now hearing some legal arguments again. I can't talk about what's going on without the jury.

 

[ArianeEmory]

It's difficult not to reach the obvious conclusion with regards to Laura, looking at those dates. But if it means what it appears to mean, her death was 100% premeditated.

More convinced than ever that DM is defending himself in LB's trial because he knows he's going to be in jail for a very long time, and it's going to get boring.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Animal bones burn differently? No idea, just guessing. Or, this guy is wrong and the animal bones don't burn completely, but mostly.

moo.

The minerals in the bones don't burn in either case...that's what makes up the "ash"

 

[Kamille]

Animal bones burn differently? No idea, just guessing. Or, this guy is wrong and the animal bones don't burn completely, but mostly.

moo.

Or most farmers would be burning over and over again and all the cremains would eventually reduce to ash?

MOO

 

[redwing7225]

IF this is the case, then why did the anthropologist state that human bones wouldn't burn completely?

"after the cremation process is complete, the bone fragments are allowed to cool for a period before being swept out of the retort and passed through a magnetic field to extract any lingering pieces of metal that remain (such as tooth fillings or surgical implants or casket parts.) The fragments are then processed either by hand or through the use of a special machine that crushes them, reducing them to dense sand like ashes." ~ from Cremationsolutions.com

Therefore, the anthropologist stated correctly when she noted the bones wouldn't burn completely.

 

[Tiggertoo]

Or most farmers would be burning over and over again and all the cremains would eventually reduce to ash?

MOO

Or it could have to do with bone density. Humans are a bit different because they only carry weight on two limbs. Moo

 

[Kamille]

So we didn't hear any testimony from Penner about what Schlatman told him they were going to use the unit for, did we? I bet that is what some of the legal arguments were about and as a result the Crown wasn't allowed to ask Penner about that.

I wonder if the jury caught that. Yes he did tell me what they claimed it was for but I'm not going to be able to tell you.

MOO

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Animal bones burn differently? No idea, just guessing. Or, this guy is wrong and the animal bones don't burn completely, but mostly.

moo.

That is possible (animal bones when referring to smaller livestock like chickes) have you seen the size of cow bones? I'd say those are bigger then human. I'd take Penner to be accurate as he knows the unit, how it burns and the final output. That all material is turned to ash (if I read that correctly?)
I'd think the remaining bones are maybe because DM did not run the full burn? Maybe we will hear more from Penner on this.

 

[redwing7225]

Or most farmers would be burning over and over again and all the cremains would eventually reduce to ash?

MOO

personally never known a farmer to own a machine like this BUT, if one did, i believe cremation of animals would be to stop the potential spread of disease. the ashes and small bone pieces would be able to be scattered onto the field.
still shaking my head as to why they would need a unit so large to burn garbage instead of paying a Waste Management company to empty a bin. And, furthermore, if planning to build in the country, then we go back to the typical "burn barrel" or Controlled Burn that most farmers resort to.

 

[SnooperDuper]

That is possible (animal bones when referring to smaller livestock like chickes) have you seen the size of cow bones? I'd say those are bigger then human. I'd take Penner to be accurate as he knows the unit, how it burns and the final output. That all material is turned to ash (if I read that correctly?)
I'd think the remaining bones are maybe because DM did not run the full burn? Maybe we will hear more from Penner on this.

The remaining bones are mineral and will not burn. They will not fall into powder without being crushed, but as the forensic examiner pointed out, the pieces are very fragile.

 

[aawaterloo]

IF this is the case, then why did the anthropologist state that human bones wouldn't burn completely?

Good point.
Looks like they didn't run the unit long enough to not have the big pieces of bones remaining.

Also, little, dried and cracked, pieces of bones means all the same to a common person but I suppose an anthropologist of her caliber can still piece together a whole body
MOO

 

[RandomName479]

That is possible (animal bones when referring to smaller livestock like chickes) have you seen the size of cow bones? I'd say those are bigger then human. I'd take Penner to be accurate as he knows the unit, how it burns and the final output. That all material is turned to ash (if I read that correctly?)
I'd think the remaining bones are maybe because DM did not run the full burn? Maybe we will hear more from Penner on this.

Penner may know about the unit he sells, but he is not being considered an expert. With respect to human cremation I think Dr. Bones would be the authority. She was verified as an expert and is speaking from vast amounts of education and experience. MOO

 

[Abitcountry]

I wonder if the jury caught that. Yes he did tell me what they claimed it was for but I'm not going to be able to tell you.

MOO

Doesn't really matter what he would have answered......if his lips were moving, he was probably lying ( to quote Dr. Phil):floorlaugh:

 

[palisadesk]

I don't know a thing about the newer ones but I'll take your word for it. The only ones I've ever been around are noisy and you can tell even from a distance, someone's got a genny running. Are the quiet ones the newer ones?

I have a large newer-model Generac generator. It is definitely more quiet than older ones I've heard running. It is about the same noise level as a window air conditioning unit, maybe a little less. I can hear it running from near the house (ca. 30 m radius) but not from the road, even at night. A number of my neighbours have bought one or more of these since the ice storm of 2013.

They have a whole line of "quiet" generators with a choice of fuel types.

http://www.generac.com/all-products/generators

 

[Kamille]

Penner may know about the unit he sells, but he is not being considered an expert. With respect to human cremation I think Dr. Bones would be the authority. She was verified as an expert and is speaking from vast amounts of education and experience. MOO

Not to mention I'm sure Penner has never seen or heard of the effects of burning a human body in one of the units he distributes. I don't think he even uses one himself as his business does not seem to be an actual working farm, just a distributor of farm related products.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Doesn't really matter what he would have answered......if his lips were moving, he was probably lying ( to quote Dr. Phil):floorlaugh:

Well I think it does matter because unless they told him they were going to use it to burn garbage, which obviously they didn't or the defence would have no problem letting him answer that, then it was known right from the beginning that this thing was going to be used for nefarious purposes. And I don't think Penner would have been talking about animal carcasses in his email about how much fuel is necessary unless he was told it was for animal carcasses?

MOO

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Sorry, you are correct! There will still be bone fragments after the process is completed. Those are then ground down into a sand like powder.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremation

 

[billandrew]

Ann Brocklehurst just tweeted a link to the full cell phone pings exhibit in the original Powerpoint format:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1LUH8AIqxz_A5BaPXaGFPoyS8wM9CJAGTr4PrZnEc7rU/edit#slide=id.p4

Makes it much easier to analyze than referring to the videos.

 

[NashBridges2]

Penner may know about the unit he sells, but he is not being considered an expert. With respect to human cremation I think Dr. Bones would be the authority. She was verified as an expert and is speaking from vast amounts of education and experience. MOO

Exactly. We do not want or need this guys opinion on the leftover remains/bones. The only testimony we want or need the jury to consider about the remains, should come from the professionals.