Bosma Murder Trial 04.12.16 - Day 33

[Massasauga Rattler]

I still find myself leaning towards a theory that suggests that someone or something went off-script with the test drive (e.g. TB resistance to being forced out of truck, either MS or DM firing upon TB against the agreed upon plan). What was planned for IT? If they backed out due to the mention if IT's military background, it suggests they anticipated a possible struggle that they might not come out on top in. Did they alter this plan for Bosma (I.e. No messing around this time, just get rid of owner)? If the plan was a point blank execution to an unsuspecting TB, it makes me wonder why that could not have been done with IT, despite his military training.

All the above is MOO

That is a very good point!

 

[Claroon]

Well, that's certainly not the only thing they're lying about, but I hear you. It just really upsets me that no one did the right thing. It wasn't "just" a theft or "just" drugs that they didn't want to tell the truth about, it was the murder of an innocent man.

Which leads to another timeline question. Police didn't find the incinerator until the same day DM was arrested- 10th. I don' t know when they announced that on the news. When did they announce they'd figured out he'd been murdered?

I suspect when AM and MH were doing the "hide the stash" mission, they didn't know there'd been a murder. I believe all they thought they were doing was hiding a friend's drugs, plus AM lived in the house too and if it was going to be searched, he could possibly get charged with drug possession.

DM wasn't being charged of drug trafficking. In effect, drugs had nothing to do with the case "technically." So there may not have been any "right thing" to do in their minds at the time.

 

[redheart]

Which leads to another timeline question. Police didn't find the incinerator until the same day DM was arrested- 10th. I don' t know when they announced that on the news. When did they announce they'd figured out he'd been murdered?

I suspect when AM and MH were doing the "hide the stash" mission, they didn't know there'd been a murder. I believe all they thought they were doing was hiding a friend's drugs, plus AM lived in the house too and if it was going to be searched, he could possibly get charged with drug possession.

DM wasn't being charged of drug trafficking. In effect, drugs had nothing to do with the case "technically." So there may not have been any "right thing" to do in their minds at the time.

TB was a missing person at that point, and his disappearance was being investigated by the homicide squad. MH, SS, AM et al may not have known there was a murder yet, but they surely knew it was more than just a theft...

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Wonder if she got good money when she sold the rock you can see on her ring finger ???

Wonder how many of those vintage cars in the photo were stolen?

I'm also surprised the photography studio is still featuring their photos.

 

[mozzagirl]

So far nothing in anyone's testimony gives me the impression that their words will put DM away for life. So what was DM referencing in the letter to CN about showing someone how to change their words? If AM wasn't answering the same way as his original statement on the 13th of May, 2013 and during other interviews, the Crown would be all over it. Makes me think he hasn't veered too far off script... yet. We haven't been told how many times he spoke with LE in the early days after May 13th. Surveillance on Smich started the 14th. Coincidence? Don't think so.

To me what AM has said so far that could put DM away for life is that DM did look at the kijiji ad, AM was with him when he did it. He always intended to steal a truck, he just didn't know which of the two men to take it from. He said after TB went missing that "he got the truck". DM took TB out in the truck and TB never was seen again. If he took the truck but did nothing to TB in the process and kicked him out of the truck somewhere alive, why is his blood in the truck and why wouldn't he call police right away?!

Even if he did no wrong other than stealing the truck (which by the way I don't believe for a millisecond), go to the police. I would rather go down for grand theft auto than murder.

So to me, this removes basically any reasonable doubt when it comes to DM in this trial.

All MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

TB was a missing person at that point, and his disappearance was being investigated by the homicide squad. MH, SS, AM et al may not have known there was a murder yet, but they surely knew it was more than just a theft...

AM knew DM intended to steal a truck, and did. He likely didn't make the TB connection right away because DM not only neglected to mention that he had murdered in order to acquire the truck, but his demeanour was unremarkable. DM wasn't agitated or anything. It would be hard to put together that first-hand experience with DM after the theft with the missing man, because DM seemed as if nothing out of the ordinary, nothing more exciting than on the Bobcat heist, happened.

 

[Inspector_North]

I'm just a little curious about some of the things that AM said. Like he was at the house 3 to 4 times a week hanging with DM prior to moving in. And yet during this week he claimed not to have seen him at all for a few days or hung out with him and spoken with him about anything really for at least a week.

The Maplegate neighbour claimed that DM was in his driveway that week and doing "yard work" with a few guys. Who were they? Where was AM at this time? Because according to him, he never saw or really even spoke to DM that week.

I think he is lying about this and knows a lot more than he's saying. DM was home quite a bit that week. He was home early on the evening of the 8th and I assume this is the night the neighbour saw him and some other guys in the driveway. Did some washing at some point apparently, maybe the same night. He was up early on the morning of the 9th and making phone calls. RB saw him and CN at home on the evening of the 9th. And yet AM did not see him or speak to him at all?

MOO

It jives with MH saying that they were not hanging out as much after the time WM passed. I don't put much into him not seeing DM.

May 7th he saw him.
May 8th DM was busy with truck arrangements.
May 9th DM was busy all day, and into the wee hours of the 10th
May 10th arrested.

add some downtime possibly at the hanger

AM was also working, so they could have easily missed each other.

Very possible.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

(I'm frustrated as I replied to this complete with article links but by the time I was done I was logged out and lost it all. Here's the short version sans links.)

After DM's arrest, the police searched the Riverside property. I would assume that set off the chain of texts/calls as someone where would know.

It is daylight in the photos of the hoses, unless they were taken the next day and sunset was 8:30 pm so by the time MS called AM, 10-10:50, that was completed. The Maple Gate home was searched May 11.

Oh yeah...the hoses! Almost forgot about them. Looking forward to the explanation for those, which I'm sure is still coming up.

 

[Gibson67]

I'm in TO as well and I heard about the crime quickly, although my adult children and friends did not. I've followed along from the beginning although there are many people I know of who haven't.

Still, in context of DM sharing with AM his plan to steal the same kind of truck as TB's, one that AM admittedly had seen an ad for on DM's computer and had discussed it with him, on the very weekend prior to TB's truck theft on the Monday, I find it highly implausible that AM was oblivious to the MSM news about the incident. I find it even more unlikely that AM did not catch on to make any association with TB's truck theft and DM's plan the instant he saw the so-called FB post, IMO.

All MOO.

also if he was indeed doing searches..he knew they were going to test drive another truck.. I would be certain he was also searching the locations of the trucks..so when you see a fb post on Friday that a man is missing from ANCASTER and your roommate told you on Tuesday he stole a truck that looks similar to the ones you were searching for..would you not even question things in your mind?

 

[Errrr]

Seems likely that it was CN eh ? She had a lot of information, I would have thought that he would contact her first....MOO

It was a pretty spectacular take-down in broad daylight in the middle of the street. Maybe lowlife sin the crowd reported it through their underworld and MS got word that way?
However he found out, it was so fast he got evidence moved before the police raided the place shortly after!

 

[SnooperDuper]

It was a pretty spectacular take-down in broad daylight in the middle of the street. Maybe lowlife sin the crowd reported it through their underworld and MS got word that way?
However he found out, it was so fast he got evidence moved before the police raided the place shortly after!

You mean maybe an associate of DM or MS saw the arrest?

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

I agree, it's clear who was with DM that night when TB was murdered. I think the big questions are;
1) Was MS aware there was a gun brought along for the test drive and there was intent to also murder TB?
2) Was it MS's or DM's gun used to shoot TB?
3) Was MS in the truck when TB was shot?
4) Who was the actual murderer?
5) Did MS believe he was only going to help DM steal TB's truck?
ALL MOO.

It's also got me thinking about the idea of "forceable confinement", as the basis for the 1st degree charge regardless of their intentions. BUT, what if they actually never did forceably confine TB. Hypothetically, what if it was a test drive up to the point they told him to get out of the truck (yes, intention to steal it), but TB resisted and got shot in the ensuing struggle.

I would think in that case, nobody was forceably confining him. Yes, a murder ensued, however, would that not make it second degree?

Just a thought.

 

[Satchie]

DM scouting TBs home and surrounding area is consistent with his actions surrounding other thefts; but if he was that calculating, why are so many parts of this murder appearing reactive and rushed to many of us?

I do believe based on the evidence that DM desperately wanted this truck. He also strikes me as a reasonably calculating person based on his previous crimes and one-sided relationships. TB's murder was a messy crime (phone records, DNA, witnesses); I can't see what transpired being part of any criminal's (let alone a murderer's) ideal plan.

All MOO

LE were not able to find any trace of who the perps were, from detection on the May 6 crimes. They would never have found the body, and if DM had had more time, they wouldn't have found the truck.

I think he & MS went to great effort to cover their tracks. He just forgot to cover his tattoo. And he didn't expect the social media firestorm with photos of the truck everywhere.

 

[Gibson67]

was anyone in court today to see AM testify? I kind of get the impression he's more holding a grudge or angry with DM for putting him in this position..angry that he would do something like this. AM was also friends with LB so he might be just repulsed by him or the sight of him. I just get the vibe that he is matter of fact..not emotional like MH was.

 

[NashBridges2]

I can't see any hope of DM being acquitted and haven't for some time. For MS, I do think there is hope. It may be a faint hope, but I think he still has some to hang on to, IMO.

All MOO.

Not a chance. Lots more to come.

 

[ABro]

Only after they found the phone on the 9th did they trace the burner and find IT. It was IT that remarked about the tattoo that began that search. I'm not sure if the news reported it 9th or 10th.They had already been to his hangar the 10th so....

Why, why, why do people still say this? You do not need a physical phone to trace calls. By 2 a.m. on May 7 they had all the phone info for the relevant hours. The Hamilton cops were at Igor's workplace on Tuesday.

 

[Inspector_North]

This is much like a chess game. If you miss considering a move (evidence), the end game you're looking at is totally different. Both chess and this trial have a lot of moves to consider. Throw in chronology, and it gets much more complicated.

I am also guilty of making speculations that are wrong because I forgot about a piece of evidence. And we still don't have all of them yet.

Let's hope it ends with a Checkmate for the Bosma family. I am sure the prosecution team are better chess players than me.

MOO

 

[Errrr]

It was all over the T.O. news by the evening of the 7th. Unlike most of the witnesses, I remember that day clearly.

I wasn't aware of it until somebody explained the posters attached to every last traffic light in the city.

 

[Maryreger]

Smich was also living in the house with DM and his father before he died/was murdered

 

[swedie]

Many possibilities here. MS may have known the gun was in the tool box and had either his, DM's or both of their finger prints all over it. IMHO, it was extremely important for MS to have control of the gun (coincidently the one that he ended up burying?) I'm sure by the time it went to it's final resting place it was wiped clean of any prints/dna etc. The drugs- IMO, that's like a getting a bank draft. MS would have had no problem converting the knapsack into cash. Plus, IMHO, MS and DM both thought that DM would just be detained- after all, it was DM, he'd give a statement and be home for breakfast. The last thing DM needed was for LE to search Maple Gate and find a reason to keep him in jail. MOO

Hmmm the two guns in the toolbox? MS's and DM's. I now believe this to be true. The text messages between MH and DM says it all. I speculate DM gave MH the key to the toolbox and asked MH to get rid of/hide DM's gun and then see to it MS got the toolbox with MS's gun in it. I doubt MS would have kept his gun at home where someone in his family might just happen to find it. Just as BD testified MS was anxious to get the gun out of his mother's house. DM probably kept both guns at Maplegate or the hangar.

It was not a "coincidental" guess or that MH was "joking" when he suggested there were guns in the toolbox...I'm not buying it and Dungey didn't either. MH knew "2" guns were in the toolbox. Now I have to wonder where MH got rid of DM's gun. MOO.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes Apr 6
At 1:49am on May 10, H asks DM "can you tell me what these toys are so I can prepare myself?"
DM responds: "a toolbox."

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes Apr 6
At 1:57 am, H texts back "haha full of guns?"
At 2:11, DM (on Noudga's phone) writes: "..."
At 4:10, DM writes "2."

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes Apr 6
H explains that he "previously knew this toolbox", and was making a joke bc DM was "dancing around his questions."