Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #14

[ABro]

I think AM took a long time to be a saint with the truth.So this guesses may come with wondering and looking for the secret person DM wanted CN to help change their words. In looking past brighttii's guess on "alarm" from AM and possibly just see it as a changed testimony.

AM is not a saint. He did a lot of bad and stupid things. It's no secret he is the one DM wanted to change his words. It's right there in the letters in black and white. The Crown just didn't supply his name in the opening statement so it was a bit of a mystery until the letters were actually shown.

AM's testimony in court did not change from his first videotaped police statement on May 13, 2013. If it had the defence lawyers would have been all over it.

 

[Arnie M]

On April 27th, Millard texts Schlatman: "check that ether in front end loader is in good supply."

Ether is used to start a diesel engine, especially one that hasn't been started in a while. Was DM was preparing to use the bobcat, or the excavator?

Then on May 3rd, DM asked Schlatman if the junk forklift mast/forks are working.

The same day, Smich texts DM to "come scope something out", and "there's a bunch. Missions and more". Late that evening Millard computer accesses the Bosma truck ad on Kijiji, which, looks to me, the first time they find the ad. Was it Smich who told DM about the truck ad, knowing that DM was preparing the details of the mission?



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml

Hi mj , best wishes .... I think the ether topic is unrelated to this case. Ether is common to diesel engines .... they need a shot of it to get them to start ..... ether comes in a small spray bomb that has an electrical solenoid switch to squirt some in .... on some machines you have to spray it in the air breather by hand.

Anyone who has ever operated a diesel and found out the small ether cans are empty knows it can be a real pain in the asss if they are empty . I think DM was simply giving everyday instructions to his mechanic by mentioning ... "make sure it is ethered up"

trivia: .... diesel and propane are always used on machines and forklifts inside buildings (warehouses and hangars etc) because they do not produce carbon monoxide ... some forklifts use electric motors with huge batteries if it is in a food-producing facility (no exhaust smell)

more trivia: it is an advantage for a forklift to be very heavy (so they do not tip over) ... so to use heavy batteries in a forklift is intelligent ...... but to use heavy batteries in an automobile if a complete disadvantage and is simply propaganda designed by global warming propagandists .... so dont believe them.

It takes 500 pounds of battery to equal the energy in a gallon of gasoline. Modern lithium batteries are not much better .... takes 400 pounds of them to equal one gallon of gas.

 

[palisadesk]

I'm not sure of the obsession with where the u-turn occurred, etc. nor the obsession about the video at Super Sucker. There must be better holes to be found. IMO.

I think the Super Sucker video issue could be very important, because if the two captures of the possible TB truck that Pillay entered into evidence are indeed TB's truck, it provides the potential murder scenario. It means that MS and DM were in the truck with TB for around 15-20 minutes before MS went and got in the Yukon and followed.

Now, it's been pointed out that other people in the area owned black Dodge RAMs. Point taken. But, consider this:

-- if in fact the three went on the so-called "test drive" we know they left the Bosma house, they went north on Trinity (as SB testified) and surprise, an identical truck was captured on the SS security camera only minutes later. No Yukon with it, therefore, no MS following.

Then, assuming the actual "test drive" took place and they drove somewhere, the identical truck came by going back towards the Yukon exactly 10 minutes later. Time for a shooting to have taken place inside the vehicle (lots of lonely road stretches on Wilson west of the Fairgrounds -- billandrew has shared a couple of relevant photos).

If that happened, and there's a good chance it wasn't planned to happen exactly when it did, the perps would want to get back to the Yukon and get outta there. Coincidentally, the identical truck and the Yukon are seen going by the SS cameras about 5 minutes after that.

Of course, all of these vehicles might be ones unrelated to the case. But what is the probability that someone with an identical Dodge RAM just happened to go up and down on Trinity Road at the exact same time as DM and MS were supposedly taking TB's truck for the "test drive?"

Too much coincidence for me. If the SS videos all show the same truck, as the expert witness believed they did, it removes MS's alibi that he was not present when the shooting happened.

I think that's a significant issue, so that's why I think it's an important "loophole" if it is one.

 

[canadiangirl]

Thanks for the response. Your take on it is interesting.

For me, when he testified that DM came out of the truck and put a gun in his satchel as he then saw the body of TB and a bullet hole is the sticking point for me. From then on he had the opportunity to run from the scene because he was now driving the Yukon. Its 1st guilty for MS IMO

If you fear for your life not everyone would bail. MS did say he had a tight family that meant a lot to him. Money can do powerful things. And rabbit would probably make sure they happened for her only son.

 

[mskrisc]

Regarding pedo the dog.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 13m13 minutes ago
Millard would never leave Pedo alone with Mark, right? No. Noudga agrees.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 14m14 minutes ago
She does agree he never left the dog with Mark. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 14m14 minutes ago
Millard would leave Pedo with Noudga on occasion, says Pillay. She agrees. When they travelled, left Pedo with his mom.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 13m13 minutes ago
"He would never leave Pedo alone with Mark right?" "No," answers Noudga


Thought this question was odd at the time, but after MS testimony it makes sense. MS testified that DM changed plans and told MS to get out of the truck and follow with the "friend" in the yukon to timmies..there was no "friend", only Pedo.

Did Pillay or DM want this asked in case MS was going to take the stand/use this in his defense? The questions seemed so out of place at the time but makes sense after MS testmony, as if they're trying to discredit MS defense before it even happened.

Of course jmo

Which leads me only to believe that it was truth! How did they know MS would testify, let alone say he got into the Yukon with Pedo, unless it's what actually happened!

 

[Arnie M]

Aw c'mon, Igor knew the difference between an Indiana Jones satchel and a Hangover man bag. I think he'd be fun in a vodka bar.

haaa .... love it ..... and I would love to be there too .... the building would shake and dust would fall from the rafters amid the boisterous laughter and conversation.

I have a good friend like that who was raised behind the Iron curtain and then escaped to America .... tough as nails ... honest to a fault (in speech and opinions) .... he was on a Soviet mobile Nuclear Missile crew ... hated communism .... boy can he tell some stories ..... enough for a decent small book ..... so if you ever get bored after this case is finished ........

 

[mimimic]

AM is not a saint. He did a lot of bad and stupid things. It's no secret he is the one DM wanted to change his words. It's right there in the letters in black and white. The Crown just didn't supply his name in the opening statement so it was a bit of a mystery until the letters were actually shown.

AM's testimony in court did not change from his first videotaped police statement on May 13, 2013. If it had the defence lawyers would have been all over it.

Oh I see - I was under the impression his words did change or at least took forever to get - sort of like CN - but that LE got more from him as time went on. I stand corrected i assume. Although I do see how arguments can start happen on here now. My calling AM a saint was somewhat a sarcastic response to the attack on brightii's brainstorm, but your response to my calling him a saint seems to have put you on an opposite side from your previous response to another. I do know you are likely one of the "main" people here with the better idea's - my intention is not to tick you off. More to remind the brainiacs that a perceived dumb question/comment might start a jolt/bingo/aha moment for the puzzle.

 

[mskrisc]

I suppose it's possible, but it doesn't ring true for me. We have testimony about him frantically trying to hide, and then sell, ONE gun. He had to have known he was on LE's radar; I can't imagine him trying to sell one and keep the other, especially when he had no permanent home, his mode of transport was a bike, and his best idea for hiding a weapon was inside a washing machine.

Is it at all possible that the second gun has not been mentioned or discussed because it's evidence in another case???

 

[brightii]

Maybe DM told TB that his girlfriend got lost and was waiting for them around the corner? Before anyone gets angry at me for this speculation, I'm not suggesting that CN was actually there waiting, I simply think if a female was mentioned that may have been a less threatening situation IMO and it would likely have made TB feel a bit better about the detour?

All MOO.

 

[canadiangirl]

I want to know if others were asked to be part of this mission as lookouts?

I've wondered this as well. Was this the ONLY mission there was just the 2 of them? I can't recall offhand. But I do recall the DM crew being called for lookouts. Why not this one? Hmm?

 

[JuneBug67]

if i say to my buddy that i got your 6, i really mean that i'm watching your back, make sense now? its gang slang really.

The first time I heard it was way back in the day in the context of teenagers working in pairs to shoplift. One did the stealing, the other watched for store security etc. The watcher would 'keep six' for the stealer. I've never heard of a gang origin, though I've heard of it used as military slang. I asked somebody once what it meant and they said it related to the face of a clock. If you were standing in the middle of a clock 12 o'clock is straight ahead, 3 and 9 are to the sides and 6 is at your back. So keeping six is literally watching or having your back.

 

[brightii]

Which leads me only to believe that it was truth! How did they know MS would testify, let alone say he got into the Yukon with Pedo, unless it's what actually happened!

I think it's possible that DM and his defence team saw disclosure about this if MS made a statement, or perhaps they just anticipated that MS might suggest that he was alone in the Yukon with the dog at the time TB was murdered.

All MOO.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I've wondered this as well. Was this the ONLY mission there was just the 2 of them? I can't recall offhand. But I do recall the DM crew being called for lookouts. Why not this one? Hmm?

No. They did most of them with just the two of them. Only used look outs on the big ones. At least according to MS testimony about all of their thefts.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Is it at all possible that the second gun has not been mentioned or discussed because it's evidence in another case???

Well, except it has been mentioned, by one of MS's buddies.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I'm not sure of the obsession with where the u-turn occurred, etc. nor the obsession about the video at Super Sucker. There must be better holes to be found. IMO.

It's analogous to other people's obsession with the prospect of a third party in on the murder, or other people's obsession with pedo. People latch on to stuff.

(Although I think the people with the u turn stuff have a specific point that's being made, I just can't follow it. Here's another plea for a quick map mockup.)

 

[canadiangirl]

No. They did most of them with just the two of them. Only used look outs on the big ones. At least according to MS testimony about all of their thefts.

Well I'd consider this a big one but maybe they didn't?

After all it was being planned for more than a year and failed more then once.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

It's analogous to other people's obsession with the prospect of a third party in on the murder, or other people's obsession with pedo. People latch on to stuff.

(Although I think the people with the u turn stuff have a specific point that's being made, I just can't follow it. Here's another plea for a quick map mockup.)

There's a map on the Hamilton newspaper website. Thespec

 

[ArianeEmory]

I think it's possible that DM and his defence team saw disclosure about this if MS made a statement, or perhaps they just anticipated that MS might suggest that he was alone in the Yukon with the dog at the time TB was murdered.

All MOO.

This is like the logic puzzle with the fox, the duck, and bag of corn. The only way DM can claim that he did not leave Pedo alone with MS, that either means he was the driver of the Dodge, and probably in the driver's seat WHEN Tim was shot, and then picked up Pedo from the Yukon ... Or he has to claim he and Pedo went in the Yukon and MS shot Tim alone in the Dodge.

For the latter, we have to believe he gave up control of the Dodge, his $1200 gun, and the victim, all to Mark, and trusted him to handle all of it.

It's late and I know this doesn't make much sense. I'm just saying, we know Pedo was there that night. We know two trucks had to be driven. If DM would only ride with Pedo, that suggests certain necessary scenarios.

 

[Arnie M]

I think it's possible that DM and his defence team saw disclosure about this if MS made a statement, or perhaps they just anticipated that MS might suggest that he was alone in the Yukon with the dog at the time TB was murdered.

All MOO.

Could be .... we know DM would not talk but never heard if MS did or not .... I would have guessed "no" if he was able to get a lawyer first ..... pretty sure MM told police what MS told her and the DM team would have access to that in disclosure. Tomorrow should be an interesting day in court.

 

[Claroon]

I think the Super Sucker video issue could be very important, because if the two captures of the possible TB truck that Pillay entered into evidence are indeed TB's truck, it provides the potential murder scenario. It means that MS and DM were in the truck with TB for around 15-20 minutes before MS went and got in the Yukon and followed.

Now, it's been pointed out that other people in the area owned black Dodge RAMs. Point taken. But, consider this:

-- if in fact the three went on the so-called "test drive" we know they left the Bosma house, they went north on Trinity (as SB testified) and surprise, an identical truck was captured on the SS security camera only minutes later. No Yukon with it, therefore, no MS following.

Then, assuming the actual "test drive" took place and they drove somewhere, the identical truck came by going back towards the Yukon exactly 10 minutes later. Time for a shooting to have taken place inside the vehicle (lots of lonely road stretches on Wilson west of the Fairgrounds -- billandrew has shared a couple of relevant photos).

If that happened, and there's a good chance it wasn't planned to happen exactly when it did, the perps would want to get back to the Yukon and get outta there. Coincidentally, the identical truck and the Yukon are seen going by the SS cameras about 5 minutes after that.

Of course, all of these vehicles might be ones unrelated to the case. But what is the probability that someone with an identical Dodge RAM just happened to go up and down on Trinity Road at the exact same time as DM and MS were supposedly taking TB's truck for the "test drive?"

Too much coincidence for me. If the SS videos all show the same truck, as the expert witness believed they did, it removes MS's alibi that he was not present when the shooting happened.

I think that's a significant issue, so that's why I think it's an important "loophole" if it is one.

I've been researching this theory yet again since you are so adamant.

A new theory is Google maps says it would take 10 min to do a loop that includes a ride on the 403 - a usual part of a test drive. So, as you've said, perhaps took the test drive because he wanted to be sure it was the right truck for him. Perhaps as they returned to the Yukon, the scuffle took place as the neighbour heard noises enough to warrant the police to search the pond the next day. So maybe he was shot there and maybe tied up. But they would only have 5 min in the field because it went south at 9:15 and north 9:20.

My theory they would get back on the 403 and go back the same way. for a total of 10 min.