Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[Abitcountry]

The square patch looks to be about the size of a truck bed liner. Was there a liner in Tim's truck?

Curious about Abitcountry's reference to a rusty brown canvas. What's that about?

In earlier conversation on tarps, several suggestions were that a poly tarp would not have resisted the heat. Then someone came along a reminded us all that canvas tarps still are around and they could have been covered with an accelerant, contained the flash burn and then left a distinctive scorch pattern. The last time I saw a canvas tarp was many many years ago and they generally were of a rusty brown colour back then. A rusty brown canvas tarp was a viable explanation of the burn pattern.
I like your suggestionof the truck liner as well.....another good suggestion.
I had initially taken the square shaped burn mark as possibly having been a secondary burn site for the incinerator but that has since been eliminated.
It has been an interesting conversation over the day and several people have contributed to making sense of the peculiar burn pattern with distinct sides and corners.....yours among them.
Posters on this site I take to be observant and thoughtful regarding the posts of other members and I am sure it is appreciated by all.
Abitcountry

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Hubby said he can get from Guelph to Mississauga in 20minutes at that time in the morning, so DM probably could make it from Etobicoke to Waterloo in 40 minutes. But, yeah, he'd be moving!

Etobicoke to Waterloo (no specific location) pulled from Google maps.

1 hour via 401
1 hour 4 mins via QEW and 401
1 hour 13 mins via 403

Not sure how accurate Google maps is? I would assume these times are, minimal traffic and no construction delays.

 

[Abitcountry]

Can get from the outskirts of Guelph (Hwy 6 & 401) doing back roads and get to Kossuth and Fountain , a short distance from the hangar in 20 minutes without too much trouble.

 

[Tealgrove]

Etobicoke to Waterloo (no specific location) pulled from Google maps.

1 hour via 401
1 hour 4 mins via QEW and 401
1 hour 13 mins via 403

Not sure how accurate Google maps is? I would assume these times are, minimal traffic and no construction delays.

My guess is that he would have taken the 401 based on where he lives in Etobicoke. He's approx. 5 -7 minutes away from the on ramp at Renforth and the 401 just south of Pearson International Airport. I still think, it would take longer than an hour. HWY7/8 that goes up to Waterloo from the 401 has been notoriously under construction for as long as I can remember. The 401 has nightly closure ALL THE TIME for construction. From HWY 6 and the 401 to Waterloo would be approx. 45 - 50 minutes. From Etobicoke to Hwy 6 is approx. 40 minutes on a good day.

 

[puppyraiser]

In earlier conversation on tarps, several suggestions were that a poly tarp would not have resisted the heat. Then someone came along a reminded us all that canvas tarps still are around and they could have been covered with an accelerant, contained the flash burn and then left a distinctive scorch pattern. The last time I saw a canvas tarp was many many years ago and they generally were of a rusty brown colour back then. A rusty brown canvas tarp was a viable explanation of the burn pattern.
I like your suggestionof the truck liner as well.....another good suggestion.
I had initially taken the square shaped burn mark as possibly having been a secondary burn site for the incinerator but that has since been eliminated.
It has been an interesting conversation over the day and several people have contributed to making sense of the peculiar burn pattern with distinct sides and corners.....yours among them.
Posters on this site I take to be observant and thoughtful regarding the posts of other members and I am sure it is appreciated by all.
Abitcountry

I read your post as I was typing: we've gone from 'doorgate' to 'shoegate' to 'burnareagate' over the past couple of weeks. It's amazing the topics we tend to fixate on and the finer details of each subject.

No disrespect intended. I find the conversations about each topic quite interesting and informative.

I wonder if they poured gas/fuel in a square pattern around the items they wanted to burn. Most people would make a circle, maybe DM was daring to be different once again.

 

[cansleuther]

The square patch looks to be about the size of a truck bed liner. Was there a liner in Tim's truck?

The bed liner was still intact when LE found the truck.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2HcLKBpswT4aEswVnRPbTVmbjQ/view

 

[pswmom]

I looked at the trial pictures, Tim's truck still had the liner in it.

 

[Abitcountry]

I read your post as I was typing: we've gone from 'doorgate' to 'shoegate' to 'burnareagate' over the past couple of weeks. It's amazing the topics we tend to fixate on and the finer details of each subject.

No disrespect intended. I find the conversations about each topic quite interesting and informative.

I wonder if they poured gas/fuel in a square pattern around the items they wanted to burn. Most people would make a circle, maybe DM was daring to be different once again.

I agree with you--refining on the details is not a bad thing. Seems to me the expression goes something like this "The devil is in the details" or is it 'Catch a devil in the details'?

If a truck bed liner had been used it would have easily contained the accelerant to a square pattern.....and if they were trying to burn a sure canvas tarp, then would have probably tried to soak the entire tarp. It will be interesting to find out in th end what the Legal Eagles say was probably done at those burn sites.

I sort of look at the weekend discussion as a place to fill some time with some interesting pondering so and to work out the previous week's confusing details.

I wonder if the authorities were selective too about the cell phone calls and pings that the focused on after the might of May 7....certainly there were a lot of calls during the clean up.

I would like to find out who built the trailer for the incinerator? I'd like someone to tell me one concrete thing that DM actually worked at. And on the list goes.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

The bed liner was still intact when LE found the truck.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2HcLKBpswT4aEswVnRPbTVmbjQ/view

Thanks I didn't even see this picture. Seems to be alot of pictures I've missed.
So I guess the bedliner is out of theory.

 

[Abitcountry]

Did not need to be that truck's Berliner....another one lying on the floor somewhere in the hangar?

 

[puppyraiser]

My questions re:incinerator: how long has that thing been 'mobile' and why in the world would DM need/want it to be? Was it moblie, say back in July 2012? Wonder if the airport video cameras caught anything back then?

 

[Susanne]

Alex Pierson from AM900 reporting @15:00

-Friday's testimony was supposed to come from a forensic dentist but moved to Monday because of legal arguments.

-The incinerator's trailer system was custom built! Incinerator company was "fascinated that someone would put it on wheels"

-We will see video surveillance from the hangar

https://soundcloud.com/am900chml/th...t-had-human-bones-inside-had-been-cleaned-out

I'm pretty sure that I read that the incinerator was welded to the trailer. Would make sense if it was special ordered to be on wheels to be moved around.

I'll try to find that article again.

And I still can't believe that TB was the only victim for this horrible piece of machinery. I can't fathom why DM would buy the incinerator several years ago
IN CASE he might need it one day if he wanted to steal a truck.
I don't know if ashes can be matched to any particular person but a good spray with a hose could probably clean it out quite thoroughly.
Ok, now I won't sleep tonight either. JMHO

 

[ArianeEmory]

I'm pretty sure that I read that the incinerator was welded to the trailer. Would make sense if it was special ordered to be on wheels to be moved around.

I'll try to find that article again.

And I still can't believe that TB was the only victim for this horrible piece of machinery. I can't fathom why DM would buy the incinerator several years ago
IN CASE he might need it one day if he wanted to steal a truck.
I don't know if ashes can be matched to any particular person but a good spray with a hose could probably clean it out quite thoroughly.
Ok, now I won't sleep tonight either. JMHO

Apologies if you already know this, but DM bought the incinerator within weeks of Laura Babcock's disappearance. There are indications he ordered it BEFORE her last known communications.

And he's been charged with her murder.

 

[Abitcountry]

I'm pretty sure that I read that the incinerator was welded to the trailer. Would make sense if it was special ordered to be on wheels to be moved around.

I'll try to find that article again.

And I still can't believe that TB was the only victim for this horrible piece of machinery. I can't fathom why DM would buy the incinerator several years ago
IN CASE he might need it one day if he wanted to steal a truck.
I don't know if ashes can be matched to any particular person but a good spray with a hose could probably clean it out quite thoroughly.
Ok, now I won't sleep tonight either. JMHO

The whole outfit without the trailer set him back 15,000 dollars and that is without the trailer. Then the cost of a customized trailer even if it was made in his own hangar....had to cost because it is not a piece of junk the way some of his other work appears to be ( eg. The trailer parked at his mother's house and the lousy fastener mechanism on the back door of the thing that sprung open as the police tried to haul it off). Why the huge investment in this ominous piece of equipment.
Remember it was filed under Garbage & Disposal for the company.
Who can name another company of any sort that would require such an instrument???
Or do you really want to think too hard on that this late in the day and before sleeping?

 

[ArianeEmory]

Meanwhile, here's some coverage from the Sept 2013 search of the barn:

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ard_farm_search_ends_woman_still_missing.html

At least one of the barrels was marked as kerosene, but I don't think LE confirmed.

 

[MsSherlock]

The dairy farmer saw plumes of smoke from DM's farm while milking his cows, so wouldn't that imply the farm burnings took place when there was daylight? The incinerator was running through the night. I do agree that the body was likely incinerated at the hangar and the seats were burned at the farm, but IMO they occurred at much different times.

On May 7, 2013, sunrise was at 6:04 am and the dairy farmer SH testified that he saw a plume of smoke around 6 am on either the 7th or 8th. It wasn't broad daylight but rather "dawn".

"Henhoeffer said he saw a 10-foot plume of “thick, greyish” smoke rise from the Millard farm at around 6 a.m. on May 7 or 8. He said he’d never seen smoke coming from the farm before."

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/18/bosma-trial-told-of-bones-in-incinerator

IMO, burning seats that could contain plastics, foams, leather etc would probably produce a thick, dark toxic plume- regardless how much gas they poured on it. MOO

 

[matou]

I don't think DM and CN wanted to knock over any barrels of kerosene in the middle of the night, so they parked the incinerator in the woods, knocked over a few trees in the process. JMO

 

[palisadesk]

And I still can't believe that TB was the only victim for this horrible piece of machinery. I can't fathom why DM would buy the incinerator several years ago IN CASE he might need it one day if he wanted to steal a truck.I don't know if ashes can be matched to any particular person but a good spray with a hose could probably clean it out quite thoroughly.

I don't know either. But, police say "no remains" of LB have ever been found. Yet, the Crown obtained a direct indictment for MS and DM on first degree murder charges for her death, which has, so far as we know, never been proven.

A DI doesn't mean they have a certainty of conviction, merely a reasonable probability of conviction. But it does mean they not only have evidence of LB's death, they have evidence implicating the two accused. DNA is the most likely evidence (think the Robert Pickton case. Ugh.)

They don't need much to identify mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA, the DNA passed along the maternal line). The Eliminator is the best bet.That would prove both LB's murder and the involvement of DM at least. Finding LB's DNA somewhere else might not be so incriminating.

 

[matou]

So the incinerator was delivered to the Mississauga Millardair hangar in 2012. How was it moved to the farm in Ayr? Was the trailer built to transport it to the farm back then or was it more recent than that?

 

[Abitcountry]

I don't know either. But, police say "no remains" of LB have ever been found. Yet, the Crown obtained a direct indictment for MS and DM on first degree murder charges for her death, which has, so far as we know, never been proven.

A DI doesn't mean they have a certainty of conviction, merely a reasonable probability of conviction. But it does mean they not only have evidence of LB's death, they have evidence implicating the two accused. DNA is the most likely evidence (think the Robert Pickton case. Ugh.)

They don't need much to identify mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA, the DNA passed along the maternal line). The Eliminator is the best bet.That would prove both LB's murder and the involvement of DM at least. Finding LB's DNA somewhere else might not be so incriminating.

Dr. Rogers the forensic anthropologist made it quite clear that she had not recovered all of the body in her exploration of the incinerator. This certainly must have set off thorough explorations of the burn sites and whatever else looked suspicious on the farm.
I referred back to something from 2013 and it was reported that police even used ground radar to search the property. I do remember that Toronto police also returned to the site to do explorations apart from the Hamilton detachment. While nothing specific was reported, the serious digging that went on at the time surely must have yielded something that allowed them then to lay serious charges....that were only announced sometime later.
I also read something to the effect that they may have recovered some remains of LB and that not all has been returned to her family until the trials yet to be held regarding her disappearance later this year. Could be DNA evidence and skeletal remains as well.
I suspect that Websleuths will just be hummin along here for months to come.