Breaking News Archive - 20th - 26th Aug

[tybee204]

Well I agree with your assessment, but I remember the days and weeks that followed the murder and it was nothing like the Polly Klasss murder. The police and media were all after the family from the get go. I have never seen anything like the JBR murder case. I think this had more to do with the families so called non cooperation.

I think the Rams could have been charged with the crime while the Klaas’s family would have never in a million years been charged with the abduction of their daughter.

It was not the same at all.

Thanks for your response.

If you think speculation regarding the Ramseys was unique in the first weeks spend some time reading the first week of the Jessica Lundsford Case.

http://websleuths.com/forums/search.php?searchid=568928&pp=25&page=2

The difference is the Lundsfords cooperated and were cleared. The Ramseys didnt.

 

[islanders]

I think the killer has to be a sadistic pedophile that developed a complete obsession with Jon Benet, and most likely stalked her for some time before committing this atrocity. This murder is completely off of the charts. There are certainly pedophiles that murder little children, but I don't know of many cases that are quite like this. where the perp spent a lengthy period of time in the home, performing ghastly acts on a six year old girl, all while the parents, and her brother, slept upstairs.

I also agree that it was a pedophile who was obsessed with her for a long time.

This was planned, the ransom note, using only tools from within the house.

This ain’t rocket science. If anyone here wanted to get away with something like this they could devise a clever plan to put one over on an innocent family.

I think the truth will be revealed soon.

I think in this day and age something like this crime will become more common.

All kinds of evidence will be planted at murder scenes to throw the investigation and put someone else on the defensive.


By the way, I think Karr was skilled at writing letters but not too skilled with planting DNA.

 

[scandi]

I have heard Karr had given details (or boasts) to jail guards that he had gotten into the Ramsey house with ease, and had gotten in there around 5PM. He said the Ramsey's did not come home until 10PM. He also claimed to be inside the house the whole night.

(via CNN)

Thanks for the info Sleuthin,

Can you believe telling this to the jail guards and then the jail guards letting this get to the press? Don't you think there ought to be a law against this? Sure we want to know everything, but if he has already been Mirandized and has a lawyer, couldn't she/he make something out of this to compromise the case?

Insanity plea? Not competent to stand trial? The lawyer said he is very intelligent, and I think so too, and now wonder if this is what he's working towards - a NG due to insanity, or how ever they would term it.

Scandi

 

[islanders]

Islander
I know many many parents who would give everything they have if LE would come in to their homes and tear their lives apart, hook them up to lie detectors, comb over every financial record, phone record and get the media to talk and speculate about their family. If that is the sacrifice required they would take it in a minute to get LE to investigate their cases, search for their missing children, they would offer it 10 fold. Hand deliver it to LE with flowers and chocolate.

What parents are you talking about?

What you are missing is that the LE and media accused the Rams over and over and putthe Rams on the defensive. This is a fact unlike any other case.

 

[Buzz Mills]

You're right, Buzz. Even so, Mark Klaas was treated with suspicion anyway and submitted to a polygraph immediately.

I have add to the chorus...the Ramsey's hindered the investigation from the get-go. They made themselves look guilty, in my opinion.

What the Ramseys did, or didn't do, didn't hold a candle to the complete botching of this case by the Boulder PD, and D.A.'s office. Complete myopia on their part. A case like this has me believing that I had better lawyer up if anything of this nature ever befalls me.

 

[JBean]

What the Ramseys did, or didn't do, didn't hold a candle to the complete botching of this case by the Boulder PD, and D.A.'s office. Complete myopia on their part. A case like this has me believing that I had better lawyer up if anything of this nature ever befalls me.

You better belive you should. I know for a fact that I would. No doubt in my mind. If I had the slightest notion that I was suspect in a murder in my home, my mouth would be shut and my lawyer would do the talking for me.

 

[islanders]

If you think speculation regarding the Ramseys was unique in the first weeks spend some time reading the first week of the Jessica Lundsford Case.

http://websleuths.com/forums/search.php?searchid=568928&pp=25&page=2

The difference is the Lundsfords cooperated and were cleared. The Ramseys didnt.

I was talking about Mark Klaus’s response to the Rams that you had an issue with.

They were totally different.

By the way I thought Polly was at a slumber party. Far cry from the Rams situation.
]]
I can only respond to one base accusation at a time.

 

[tybee204]

Jessical Lundsford was kidnapped from her bedroom . Her father and grandparents lived in the house. They under went intensive scrutiny with the police and the media. Every aspect of their lives was researched, past arrests, finances , the grandparents in the media and publics eye were good for it because grandpa had a record and Grandma failed the first Lie Detector. After extensive investigation they were cleared and Little jessica was found buried at the hands of a phedophile in the neighborhood.


had the family refused to cooperate and not been willing to be put through the ringer LE may have not expanded their investigation because on the surface the family looked good for the crime.

 

[cricket]

Well so far only Mark Klass claimed no pedophile has left a ransom note.

I don’t see the other families criticizing the Rams.

This is a unique crime. And the intense accusations directed at the Rams from the media and police had more to do with the Rams reaction than their own desire to find the truth.

The Rams have taken on every chump and crack pot who has accused them and are now finally getting to the truth.

I used to respect Mark Klaas, but he has become so opinionated that it turns me off. To me, he hurts his cause more than helps it.

I don't think the JBR case was anything like Klaas, VanDam, Lunsford, etc. For one thing - when each of those went missing - there was no ransom note and there was no reason to believe the girls might have been kidnapped for money. With Polly Klaas, her friends at the sleepover saw it happen. They immediately knew a bad guy (and probable sex offender) had her and LE knew the statistics on children being murdered within hours of an abduction. Knowing that he had not hurt his own daughter - and knowing that she may still be alive - Mark Klaas was extremely motivated to do whatever it took to get his name off the suspect list and to have the police focus on finding his daughter - who may still be alive!

I don't know at what point the Boulder LE asked the Ramseys to take polygraphs, but I have never heard that they refused to take one in those first few hours after she was discovered missing. JonBenet was found dead just hours later. At that point - everything became a lot less urgent.

It sounds like the Ramseys could tell right away that LE thought they were guilty. If I were in their shoes and I'm dealing with hostile LE who seem to have their own agenda and are accusing me of a crime I knew I didn't commit, I would be very reluctant to cooperate without first getting legal advice. I don't blame them at all. JBR was dead - they couldn't bring her back. If BPD seemed intent on thinking that I did the crime - I would want an intermediary dealing with BPD for me. I'm fairly new to this case, but from what I've read, it sounded like BPD was very incompetent and inexperienced.

 

[Anita Richman]

What the Ramseys did, or didn't do, didn't hold a candle to the complete botching of this case by the Boulder PD, and D.A.'s office. Complete myopia on their part. A case like this has me believing that I had better lawyer up if anything of this nature ever befalls me.

Buzz, I agree to a point (the PD was completely incompetent in letting the family and their friends meander around, clean and search the crime scene themselves.) Unbelievable. That being said...if my child was missing or murdered, I would be consumed with finding them (or their murderer). I would cooperate in any way, immediately, that I could.

 

[tybee204]

You better belive you should. I know for a fact that I would. No doubt in my mind. If I had the slightest notion that I was suspect in a murder in my home, my mouth would be shut and my lawyer would do the talking for me.

I had a missing child. I would have taken a polygraph nekkid in the middle of time square on New Years if it would have gotten LE to look for my child.

 

[LaMer]

Ok...this kid won an extensive list of pageant titles, some statewide, a couple possibly nationwide...

From http://www.answers.com/topic/jonben-t-ramsey:

"...Ramsey held a number of child beauty contest titles, including (in no specific order): Little Miss Charlevoix Michigan, Colorado State All-Star Kids Cover Girl, America's Royal Miss, National Tiny Miss Beauty, Little Miss Merry Christmas, Little Miss Colorado, and Little Miss Sunburst..."

Appears she was very visible in child pageants across the state of Colorado, Michigan, and the whole nation, maybe. A pedophile like JMK's dream, IMO....

I've been busy

I was doing some leafing thru PMPT, L. Schiller. Page 197, "The Ramseys spent the summer of 1996 in Charlevoix and Atlanta, where JonBenet entered the Sunburst Pageant, which cost Patsy over a thousand dollars in entry fees.

Then checking the, ACandyRose's site, 'Timeline', it also states JonBenet attended the Sunburst Pageant in Atlanta, Georgia on 8/13/96. DOI, p 59.

Did JMK become aware of JonBenet from her participation in a pageant in Atlanta? Just a guess. I would imagine, from the articles etc which came up when Googling, JonBenet's Sunburst title was in the news in the Atlanta area.

Also, ACandyRose's site, in the 'Timeline' there is a line which denotes a guest list for the 12/23/96 Christmas party. Noted with a 'T' for transcripts. From what I could tell, the list is not available online.

Also in my reading, there was mention of a Ramsey Corporate Christmas party. It did not mention if this was held in Atlanta or in Boulder. I was left with the impression it was in Atlanta, as there was mention of pageant brochures found everywhere in the office. This might have been when they still had an office in Atlanta. So maybe there was another Christmas party.

I'm seriously wondering if the Sunburst Pageant in Atlanta marked the beginning of JMK's obsession with JonBenet? 1996!

:waitasec: -sorry is this was already posted--

 

[Anita Richman]

I had a missing child. I would have taken a polygraph nekkid in the middle of time square on New Years if it would have gotten LE to look for my child.

I hope that everything turned out well in your case, Tybee. I agree. I would do anything, as well.

 

[JBean]

I had a missing child. I would have taken a polygraph nekkid in the middle of time square on New Years if it would have gotten LE to look for my child.

I would have been out looking for my child myself. I didn't mean that snotty to you Tybee..I just meant I have worked with LE and they can be ridiculous.


ETA: Cripes this is one of those posts that just didn't come out right.
Please scroll on by..there is nothing to see here.

 

[LaMer]

Buzz, I agree to a point (the PD was completely incompetent in letting the family and their friends meander around, clean and search the crime scene themselves.) Unbelievable. That being said...if my child was missing or murdered, I would be consumed with finding them (or their murderer). I would cooperate in any way, immediately, that I could.

Anita, me too! -DITTO!

 

[tybee204]

LE Can be rediculous. It all falls with training. It took several months , the FBI, Private Investigators and Out of State LE to find my child and bring her home. Local LE were backwoods bumpkins whose job qualification was who they were related to and how closely that tree branched..

 

[JBean]

LE Can be rediculous. It all falls with training. It took several months , the FBI, Private Investigators and Out of State LE to find my child and bring her home. Local LE were backwoods bumpkins whose job qualification was who they were related to and how closely that tree branched..

Good Lord Tybee what a nightmare that must have been.
I think if I felt that LE was getting stuck on me and not doing what needed to be done to find my child I could implode or maybe spontaneously combust.

 

[Amster]

I had a missing child. I would have taken a polygraph nekkid in the middle of time square on New Years if it would have gotten LE to look for my child.

Most parents would. How many months passed before the Ramseys took a poly.....by a guy they hired....and how many months passed before they submitted to an interview? On their terms, of course. As I recall, the BPD tried to be compassionate and allow a day or 2 before interviewing them....and during that time, they lawyered up.

 

[tybee204]

In any situation except one regarding my child I would Lawyer up in a minute. But one regarding my child I would open myself wide open. MY attitude is find my child or find whoever hurt my child. Whatever it takes.

 

[tybee204]

Good Lord Tybee what a nightmare that must have been.
I think if I felt that LE was getting stuck on me and not doing what needed to be done to find my child I could implode or maybe spontaneously combust.

We are 7 years into this and still have not gone to trial. The defendant is unable to aid in their defense and remains in the State Hospital.