CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #3

[arkansasmimi]

I wonder if either one has asked how the kids are? I mean, since they plead not guilty and all.

You always plea NG. But I get what your saying.

 

[franci]

I am catching up slowly. My wish for these kids right now are, long warm bubblebaths, aroma therapy with nice gentle touching hands on their tortured bodies, soft voices that speaks to these children with respect and kindness. There is probably much more of these small simple things that would help them on their journey. I will now continue my catching up reading, thank you everyone for the updates.

And years and years of heartbreak missed opportunities and therapy for their tortured souls. Bodies tend to heal much faster than the spirit and the mind. What a legacy.their parents have given them to deal with ..I hope they find comfort and solidarity with each other ..jmo

 

[Rocco]

While piling up child after child certainly was a trigger, there were strange things going on before children ever came along. LT’s younger sister lived with LT/DT in her late teens. LT didn’t allow her to use the phone or have friends over. She and DT watched her shower, she says (link in previous thread somewhere). This in itself was bizarre and abusive, and the rest is history as the family grew.

The sister also said she thought the child who escaped was the one who was named after her. The problem is her name is Elizabeth. None of the girls are named after her---all their names begin with a J. If she lied about something that was so quickly dis-proven, she can lie about anything. I don't believe anything she says. Nothing. JMO

 

[SandyQLS]

I agree with a couple of you upthread that LT was the majority torturer-abuser. She was the one with these kids for long hours. However, I think we are going to eventually hear about more sexual abuse/incest with DT. He was smart and able to escape WVA to a university and lucrative career. Aged 23, he didn't marry a college girlfriend or wait to meet a girl where his career would take him - he went back to WVA and married a 10th grade dropout 16 year old. That says something about him right there. While he was breeding with LT, both of them stuck in some childish fantasy world, I won't be surprised if we find out that his horde of little princesses were one-by-one the object of his desires, and/or that #13 is not DT's but belongs to a daughter. Perhaps LT starved them to be cruel, but also to keep them infantilized the way daddy liked them to be?

There is some family SECRET that is keeping this system going all these years, keeping these children and adults terrified of being killed as the 17 year old said, she thought that her parents would KILL her if they knew she ran away to get help. What is the dark secret binding them all together? Is it incest or a dead child in the past? This case just goes beyond mother is crazy and father went along with it, or vice versa.

I keep thinking of the David Brown, Cinnamon Brown, Patty Brown case. If I remember correctly, it took Cinnamon a good two years in CYA custody before she was able to the admit the truth even to herself after all the lies and brainwashing from her father. It may take some time for these 13 to admit to themselves what all has happened to them and disclose the dark family secret(s). In their limited world experience, I doubt they know what sex abuse or incest even means; maybe only one of them has the strength right now to tell authorities. If it happened to one, it likely happened to them all, and the lewd act charge is on a "female under 14" in a household where a 17 year old looks 10, and a 12 year old is the size of a normal 7 year old. If this is incest, DT is in denial that she knows, but she does know and punishes them for it while not acknowledging it?

 

[Rocco]

What did she do all day (or night) while not taking care of her kids??!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, she wasn't cleaning up her house, that's for sure. Maybe she was eating pie while watching Elvis movies.

 

[Electric Sheep]

I agree with a couple of you upthread that LT was the majority torturer-abuser. She was the one with these kids for long hours. However, I think we are going to eventually hear about more sexual abuse/incest with DT. He was smart and able to escape WVA to a university and lucrative career. Aged 23, he didn't marry a college girlfriend or wait to meet a girl where his career would take him - he went back to WVA and married a 10th grade dropout 16 year old. That says something about him right there. While he was breeding with LT, both of them stuck in some childish fantasy world, I won't be surprised if we find out that his horde of little princesses were one-by-one the object of his desires, and/or that #13 is not DT's but belongs to a daughter. Perhaps LT starved them to be cruel, but also to keep them infantilized the way daddy liked them to be?

There is some family SECRET that is keeping this system going all these years, keeping these children and adults terrified of being killed as the 17 year old said, she thought that her parents would KILL her if they knew she ran away to get help. What is the dark secret binding them all together? Is it incest or a dead child in the past? This case just goes beyond mother is crazy and father went along with it, or vice versa.

I keep thinking of the David Brown, Cinnamon Brown, Patty Brown case. If I remember correctly, it took Cinnamon a good two years in CYA custody before she was able to the admit the truth even to herself after all the lies and brainwashing from her father. It may take some time for these 13 to admit to themselves what all has happened to them and disclose the dark family secret(s). In their limited world experience, I doubt they know what sex abuse or incest even means; maybe only one of them has the strength right now to tell authorities. If it happened to one, it likely happened to them all, and the lewd act charge is on a "female under 14" in a household where a 17 year old looks 10, and a 12 year old is the size of a normal 7 year old. If this is incest, DT is in denial that she knows, but she does know and punishes them for it while not acknowledging it?

The parallels between both those cases struck me as well.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I've been working on the ages a bit, too--not sure if I'm right but here's an alternative to consider. Since the 17-yr old is the oldest minor, and she's #8 in the red t-shirt lineup, followed by #9 (a boy), and #10, 11, and 12 are the youngest girls (apart from baby 13), here's how I'm deducing it (again, I could be wrong):

There were 7 'adult' kids 18 and older (2 boys/5 girls stated in the news) sent to Corona for treatment.
There were 6 minors sent to Riverside (mentioned in news and press releases), which would include the youngest boy--so 5 girls and 1 boy, ranging from 2 to 17.

Here are the minors/ages mentioned in news reports so far:

Brave 17-yr old (GIRL, and deduced to be #8 in previous thread; I agree. Earliest threads had birth records for the 1st 5 kids for those new to this thread.)

Two minors chained, then unchained while LE were at the door (ages mentioned in press release):
14 yr old
11 yr old

12-yr old ("the weight of an average 7-yr old")
(in report from ktla.com, Jan 18)

2-yr old (baby)

That leaves one last child, age unknown, but presumably born in that big gap between the baby (2) and the next one up (11), so one of the three girls seated together that look close in age and are the youngest (apart from baby).

Looking at the red t-shirt photo where they're all shirted up in birth order, we can see that the boy comes after the brave girl, order-wise (tee #9), so he'll need to be the 14-yr old, followed by 3 seated girls followed by the baby. So here's my lineup (subject to correction!):

#8 - 17 yrs - GIRL - brave sister who alerted LE
#9 - 14 yrs - BOY (chained, then unchained while LE were at the door)
#10 - 12yrs - GIRL (mentioned by ktla.com news today as having the "weight of an average 7-yr old")
#11 - 11yrs - GIRL (chained, then unchained while LE were at the door)
#12 - 7-9 yrs? GIRL (did someone in here mention there was a 7-yr gap between this one and the baby?)
#13 - 2 yrs - GIRL (youngest of the minors)

ETA: yes, agree with guessing #4, BOY, is the 22-yr old.



My guess (since they interviewed the kids prior to hospital placement and before drawing up these charges) is that that offense likely involves #10, #11, or #12...ages 12, 11, and younger (7-9?) respectively. I suppose it could have been an offense against the baby, but that seems unlikely due to the nature of the charge. It seems a "lewd act" would arise from an interview, and from a 'report' coming from one the cluster of young girls under 14.



Not only was Baby 13 (the current 2-yr old) born abt 2015, but LT's parents died the next year within 3 months of each other (2016). (Wish I could remember the article--was from yesterday or day before, possibly one interviewing/quoting the sister E, who mentioned they didn't come to the funerals.) A poster also observed on a previous thread that summer 2016 was when she'd read the family stopped traveling, and May 2016 is also when the Facebook comments died off from family (presumably because they didn't attend the funerals?).

JMO, but I'd say it'd be safe to say things ramped up since 2015, leading the 17 y.o. to start planning her escape.

Remember there was a comment with photo in red shirts not Thing the ired shirt.. saying 9 months will have baby 13, but baby 13 doesn't match with current toddler age.

Thanks for your work on this

 

[Francesca]

I agree with a couple of you upthread that LT was the majority torturer-abuser. She was the one with these kids for long hours. However, I think we are going to eventually hear about more sexual abuse/incest with DT. He was smart and able to escape WVA to a university and lucrative career. Aged 23, he didn't marry a college girlfriend or wait to meet a girl where his career would take him - he went back to WVA and married a 10th grade dropout 16 year old. That says something about him right there. While he was breeding with LT, both of them stuck in some childish fantasy world, I won't be surprised if we find out that his horde of little princesses were one-by-one the object of his desires, and/or that #13 is not DT's but belongs to a daughter. Perhaps LT starved them to be cruel, but also to keep them infantilized the way daddy liked them to be?

There is some family SECRET that is keeping this system going all these years, keeping these children and adults terrified of being killed as the 17 year old said, she thought that her parents would KILL her if they knew she ran away to get help. What is the dark secret binding them all together? Is it incest or a dead child in the past? This case just goes beyond mother is crazy and father went along with it, or vice versa.

I keep thinking of the David Brown, Cinnamon Brown, Patty Brown case. If I remember correctly, it took Cinnamon a good two years in CYA custody before she was able to the admit the truth even to herself after all the lies and brainwashing from her father. It may take some time for these 13 to admit to themselves what all has happened to them and disclose the dark family secret(s). In their limited world experience, I doubt they know what sex abuse or incest even means; maybe only one of them has the strength right now to tell authorities. If it happened to one, it likely happened to them all, and the lewd act charge is on a "female under 14" in a household where a 17 year old looks 10, and a 12 year old is the size of a normal 7 year old. If this is incest, DT is in denial that she knows, but she does know and punishes them for it while not acknowledging it?

My gut feeling with those wedding vow renewals was that some couples do this after a betrayal - it's a "fresh start". In the beginning, I suspected this was a sexual abuse case, then I went completely away from that line of thought because it seemed to be more about the mother's desires and fantasies that drove the isolation and abuse. But I'm back there again because of that one extra criminal charge against the father.

How sick and depraved to take the children along to watch the vow renewal when her husband betrayed "her" by molesting their daughter/s.

 

[LaneGirl]

I can't find the facebook link. Do we have a timeline of the pictures?

 

[human]

One article from when they fled Texas stated that the neighbor found papers about armegeddon in the trailer.

I think they lived different places and left them when they became unbearable. They did not worry about bills because they were sure to be ascending onto heaven.

 

[kiwilaura]

The sister also said she thought the child who escaped was the one who was named after her. The problem is her name is Elizabeth. None of the girls are named after her---all their names begin with a J. If she lied about something that was so quickly dis-proven, she can lie about anything. I don't believe anything she says. Nothing. JMO

Her name is Elisabeth Jane. I’m just wondering if there could have been a girl named Jane somewhere in the mix?

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I don't think this was all the mother or that the mother was the mastermind. I think they're both in this neck deep and the dynamic between them is what fueled it. I think he isolated her and controlled her (from family statements) and I think she was extremely young with pathologically low self esteem and worshipped him and could only find validation in his approval. But I think his approval was impossible to win.

It sounds crazy but this dynamic is common in serial killing teams.

 

[Rocco]

Her name is Elisabeth Jane. I’m just wondering if there could have been a girl named Jane somewhere in the mix?

Nope---their names have been posted. None of them are named Jane.

 

[avondale14]

The sister also said she thought the child who escaped was the one who was named after her. The problem is her name is Elizabeth. None of the girls are named after her---all their names begin with a J. If she lied about something that was so quickly dis-proven, she can lie about anything. I don't believe anything she says. Nothing. JMO

I think that she might mean that they've used her name as a middle name. they seem to have done that with the other children that have been listed in an earlier thread. ie the grandfathers name is one of the boys middle name etc.

 

[Francesca]

I think that she might mean that they've used her name as a middle name. they seem to have done that with the other children that have been listed in an earlier thread. ie the grandfathers name is one of the boys middle name etc.

And/ or maybe she's trying to insert herself into the story without claiming any responsibility for the kids.

 

[LaneGirl]

They had the wherewith all to devise a plan over 2 years and to know that the deactivated cell phone was still usable to call 911. I think some of the kids knew a lot more than we think and were more in touch with the real world.

 

[arkansasmimi]

It will be very interesting to hear what they were told about the outside world. It's crazy the way they walked in public with a parent in the front and back to literally grab them if they tried to run off. They could have made a concerted effort to make a run for it and scream that their parents were starving them though. One look at them and anyone would believe it. The 29 year old would have had to be starved how far back for her growth to be stunted like that? That's why I'm so skeptical of the police officer who brought her home. Did she tell him her parents weren't feeding her? I did not see the neighbor lady with the parrot say anything about their weight.

I read Elizabeth Skate book and she spoke of being in public and not speaking out. I know it's different but maybe somewhat same.

 

[avondale14]

And/ or maybe she's trying to insert herself into the story without claiming any responsibility for the kids.

Possibly...who knows at the moment

 

[kiwilaura]

Nope---their names have been posted. None of them are named Jane.

That’s why I said could have? I’m thinking dead children are far-fetched but not completely impossible at this stage.

 

[verbonica]

My gut feeling with those wedding vow renewals was that some couples do this after a betrayal - it's a "fresh start". In the beginning, I suspected this was a sexual abuse case, then I went completely away from that line of thought because it seemed to be more about the mother's desires and fantasies that drove the isolation and abuse. But I'm back there again because of that one extra criminal charge against the father.

How sick and depraved to take the children along to watch the vow renewal when her husband betrayed "her" by molesting their daughter/s.

I dunno, but they did these renewals at least three times (with the Elvis guy) in 2015, 2013 and 2011.