CA CA - Elizabeth Short 'Black Dahlia', 22, Los Angeles, 15 Jan 1947

[2Hip2BSquare]

The story of that rape of the missionary kills me December.... I'm sure it haunts you as well. That poor woman lived with that horrific secret for years, shaming herself as if she had somehow asked to be assaulted in such an egregious manner

 

[December]

The story of that rape of the missionary kills me December.... I'm sure it haunts you as well. That poor woman lived with that horrific secret for years, shaming herself as if she had somehow asked to be assaulted in such an egregious manner

Her husband throwing in her face was terrible. I'm surprised she didn't take the secret to her grave. There are so many people who get away with terrible things and whose crimes escalate in violence because, before they get to the point where they horribly damage or kill their victims, the victims blame themselves or are afraid to tell.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

"My father killed the Black Dahlia and NINE other women, claims retired detective who says he's discovered his dad's a serial killer"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-victims-included-infamous-Black-Dahlia.html

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-victims-included-infamous-Black-Dahlia.html

"My father killed the Black Dahlia and NINE other women, claims retired detective who says he's discovered his dad's a serial killer"

 

[tlcya]

this case has always fascinated me.

 

[i.b.nora]

"My father killed the Black Dahlia and NINE other women, claims retired detective who says he's discovered his dad's a serial killer"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-victims-included-infamous-Black-Dahlia.html

I think the significance of the new article is the human bones that he is claiming were found in the dirt are those of some actress.

"Steve Hodel believes actress Jean Spangler, left, may have been a victim of his 'serial killer' father, while forensic anthropologist Arpad Vass, says the samples taken from the Hodel residence could be from the same time period"

I am now totally convinced that Steve Hodel is totally whacko!

 

[Donamena]

I read his book on the Black Dahlia & a photo book on Man Ray..ugh. L.A. Was such a rough place then with all of the servicemen with PTSD, mafia, crime, sleazy side of film industry, bribes, corrupt LE & public servants. I've never seen a definitive social-historical work for that area in the time period from 1900-1960. It would make an amazing read. Also a sad one.

 

[LinasK]

I think the significance of the new article is the human bones that he is claiming were found in the dirt are those of some actress.

"Steve Hodel believes actress Jean Spangler, left, may have been a victim of his 'serial killer' father, while forensic anthropologist Arpad Vass, says the samples taken from the Hodel residence could be from the same time period"

I am now totally convinced that Steve Hodel is totally whacko!

And yet Arpad Vass seems to be lending credibility to the fact that the cadaver dog found human remains in the basement of his family home...

 

[i.b.nora]

And yet Arpad Vass seems to be lending credibility to the fact that the cadaver dog found human remains in the basement of his family home...

Well, yes, but I myself would be more impressed if Hodel had used any one of a number of California based forensic anthropologists. Ones that I have been impressed by, whose names I don't recall are the woman who did work on the Laci Peterson case, another person who did work on the Jaycee Dugard case when bones were found in Garrido's back yard. They worked quickly, quietly, and without a lot of hocus pocus. I think the issue is not the fact they are/were human bones. Its the 'dating'. And were they actually identified as female? etc, etc.

I think the work Vass is doing is quite interesting, but I don't necessarily buy everything he is currently selling.

And, I did quite a bit of personal research on Hodel and his family last year, and I arrived at the conclusion that he is crazy as a loon and probably lives in an alcholic fog. And, I don't for a second believe his father was involved in the murder of Elizabeth Short or anyone else. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[LinasK]

Well, yes, but I myself would be more impressed if Hodel had used any one of a number of California based forensic anthropologists. Ones that I have been impressed by, whose names I don't recall are the woman who did work on the Laci Peterson case, another person who did work on the Jaycee Dugard case when bones were found in Garrido's back yard. They worked quickly, quietly, and without a lot of hocus pocus. I think the issue is not the fact they are/were human bones. Its the 'dating'. And were they actually identified as female? etc, etc.

I think the work Vass is doing is quite interesting, but I don't necessarily buy everything he is currently selling.

And, I did quite a bit of personal research on Hodel and his family last year, and I arrived at the conclusion that he is crazy as a loon and probably lives in an alcholic fog. And, I don't for a second believe his father was involved in the murder of Elizabeth Short or anyone else. But, that's just my opinion.

Arpad Vass is a big name- wasn't he involved in either Jodi Arias's trial or Casey Anthony's??? The guy you're thinking of in Laci Peterson's case, and maybe also Jaycee Dugard is Brian Peterson, who is based out of Martinez.

 

[i.b.nora]

Well, Vass was involved in the Casey Anthony case. You remember, the fumes in the cans?

I might need to look up the other two local people I am thinking of.

 

[i.b.nora]

Brian Peterson is a pathologist.

The forensic anthropologist woman I was thinking of in Laci Peterson case was:

"Also Thursday, a forensic anthropologist said Laci Peterson's body appeared to have been submerged in the bay for three to six months.

Dr. Alison Galloway also described how she measured three of the baby's bones -- one from the baby's arm and two from his leg -- to estimate the baby's age. She estimated they came from a fetus with a gestational age of 33 to 38 weeks."​

From: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/THE-PETERSON-TRIAL-Pathologist-Baby-was-2693350.php

 

[i.b.nora]

And this guy in the Jaycee Dugard case:

Spotlight on Ohlone:
Teacher consults in Garrido case
By Kathryn Dixon, Staff writer.

Thursday, September 24, 2009—Reprinted from Monitor.

"Ohlone College professor Mark Dobbs, a forensic anthropologist, has provided his expert opinion to law enforcement that the bone fragments found by Contra Costa County criminalists in the yard outside the Antioch home of Phillip and Nancy Garrido are American Indian remains.

This rules out their being the remains of Ilene Misheloff and Michaela Garecht, Caucasian girls kidnapped within two years before the Garridos allegedly kidnapped Jaycee Lee Dugard."

http://www.ohlone.edu/core/spotlight/2009fall/20090924markdobbs.html

 

[i.b.nora]

Okay, I looked back at the recent DailyMail article where it says:

"According to forensic anthropologist Arpad Vass, PhD, a pioneer in chemical analysis of human decomposition, those samples are 'consistent' with Steve Hodel's theory of homicide victims buried in shallow graves 70-80 years ago.
'The soil came up positive for human remains because there are a number of human specific markers,' said Vass from his laboratory in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.
Hodel would like to search further for the human remains, but has been unable to get permission to go onto the privately owned hillside."​

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uded-infamous-Black-Dahlia.html#ixzz33QCuJUER

So, its soil, not bones. Its an interesting concept. Is it ground up bones in the soil, or just a smell? I don't quite get if the soil is from the unfinished basement of the house, aren't there other types of instruments that can look for buried bones without digging? I don't think I would want Hodel digging up the basement of my house.

I still think Hodel is crazy. When I have extra time and inspiration, I will look to see if I can find out if the house was built on some burial grounds of some sort.

 

[Donamena]

Okay, I looked back at the recent DailyMail article where it says:

"According to forensic anthropologist Arpad Vass, PhD, a pioneer in chemical analysis of human decomposition, those samples are 'consistent' with Steve Hodel's theory of homicide victims buried in shallow graves 70-80 years ago.
'The soil came up positive for human remains because there are a number of human specific markers,' said Vass from his laboratory in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.
Hodel would like to search further for the human remains, but has been unable to get permission to go onto the privately owned hillside."​

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uded-infamous-Black-Dahlia.html#ixzz33QCuJUER

So, its soil, not bones. Its an interesting concept. Is it ground up bones in the soil, or just a smell? I don't quite get if the soil is from the unfinished basement of the house, aren't there other types of instruments that can look for buried bones without digging? I don't think I would want Hodel digging up the basement of my house.

I still think Hodel is crazy. When I have extra time and inspiration, I will look to see if I can find out if the house was built on some burial grounds of some sort.

They could also be pre- or post-colonial, couldn't they? It would be interesting to dig up some very very old maps for that area...say 1500-1800??

 

[i.b.nora]

They could be dinosaur bones, ashes, remains. And, I am not kidding.

I am not sure how he can date smells, or whatever it is he is dating.

 

[LinasK]

They could also be pre- or post-colonial, couldn't they? It would be interesting to dig up some very very old maps for that area...say 1500-1800??

L.A. in that era would've been Mexico. (Ciudad de Los Angeles). I doubt they would've have detailed maps of the area.

 

[i.b.nora]

This LA Times article about old California maps is interesting.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/16/local/la-me-island-maps-20121217

A collection that identifies California as a world apart
Early maps depicting the region as an island draw academics.
December 16, 2012|By Larry Gordon, Los Angeles Times

IMAGE: This 17th century map by Nicolas Sanson clearly shows California depicted… (Image from the Glen McLaughlin…)

PALO ALTO — Something was unusual about the 1663 map of the Western Hemisphere.

Yes, much of the North and South American coasts followed contours geographers would recognize today. And in California, Santa Catalina, Santa Barbara and Point Reyes were clearly marked. But wait! What was that body of water marked Mare Vermiglio, or Red Sea, separating California from the mainland? And why was California a big carrot-shaped island?

 

[LinasK]

This LA Times article about old California maps is interesting.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/16/local/la-me-island-maps-20121217

A collection that identifies California as a world apart
Early maps depicting the region as an island draw academics.
December 16, 2012|By Larry Gordon, Los Angeles Times

IMAGE: This 17th century map by Nicolas Sanson clearly shows California depicted… (Image from the Glen McLaughlin…)

PALO ALTO — Something was unusual about the 1663 map of the Western Hemisphere.

Yes, much of the North and South American coasts followed contours geographers would recognize today. And in California, Santa Catalina, Santa Barbara and Point Reyes were clearly marked. But wait! What was that body of water marked Mare Vermiglio, or Red Sea, separating California from the mainland? And why was California a big carrot-shaped island?

I guess we are going to fall off into the ocean!

 

[brogue]

Did anyone ever get access to the profile of this killer?