CA - Harvey Weinstein trial on Sexual Harassment #metoo *Guilty in CA, NY Appeal*

[Morag]

I've always thought that the people in the 'film' business were pretty scummy. Gees, for many, what we know of their personal lives proves how completely dysfunctional they are. None of this is new, it has been going on for as long as movies have been being made or theaters played.

Look what they will do on screen for money. Imagine what they will do behind the scenes to get in position to make that money.

Adults can speak for themselves, but let's get the child rapists outed. FGS if they could only stop talking about themselves for one second and go after the kiddie pervs, I might have some respect for them.

Hmmm. Weinstein has not been accused of raping children (yet). So do you respect him?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I've always thought that the people in the 'film' business were pretty scummy. Gees, for many, what we know of their personal lives proves how completely dysfunctional they are. None of this is new, it has been going on for as long as movies have been being made or theaters played.

Look what they will do on screen for money. Imagine what they will do behind the scenes to get in position to make that money.

Adults can speak for themselves, but let's get the child rapists outed. FGS if they could only stop talking about themselves for one second and go after the kiddie pervs, I might have some respect for them.

Yes, child rape is awful. A lot of these adult actors were young when they started out. FGS. Rape is awful. Harassment is awful. Abuse is awful. I’m confused as to why their testimony recounting historical abuse would have less relevance today just because they’re adults now. Nobody “deserves” sexual abuse. Nobody. Ever. Period.

Imho, if adults don’t speak out like they finally are — and in numbers, like they finally are — then children definitely aren’t going to have the support and voice they need to defend themselves or end these abuses, either. We (adults) speak for them, defend them and protect them.


[emoji202]MOO

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Case in point:

Headline: Barbara Walters wasn't sympathetic when Corey Feldman admitted abuse by Hollywood pedophiles

Story:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...-abuse-barbara-walters-2013-article-1.3568826

Video:
https://youtu.be/-gsg2TE6gto



Blaming and silencing the victims. MOO

Yes, child rape is awful. A lot of these adult actors were young when they started out. FGS. Rape is awful. Harassment is awful. Abuse is awful. I’m confused as to why their testimony recounting historical abuse would have less relevance today just because they’re adults now. Nobody “deserves” sexual abuse. Nobody. Ever. Period.

Imho, if adults don’t speak out like they finally are — and in numbers, like they finally are — then children definitely aren’t going to have the support and voice they need to defend themselves or end these abuses, either. We (adults) speak for them, defend them and protect them.


[emoji202]MOO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Annabella Sciorra alleges she was raped by Weinstein

New York — Annabella Sciorra is alleging she was raped by Harvey Weinstein after he barged his way into her apartment in the 1990s.

Daryl Hannah is also speaking out, saying the movie mogul once tried to force his way into her hotel room...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/en...lla-sciorra-alleges-rape-weinstein/107120620/

 

[grammieto5]

Case in point:

Headline: Barbara Walters wasn't sympathetic when Corey Feldman admitted abuse by Hollywood pedophiles

Story:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...-abuse-barbara-walters-2013-article-1.3568826

Video:
https://youtu.be/-gsg2TE6gto



Blaming and silencing the victims. MOO

Finally this is being made public, though I don't know how much more public you can get than Barbara Walters. I remember when this one aired, that was when I was still watching the view.

 

[otto]

I am completely confused by this recent news, and don't know who to believe. The phrase "sleeping your way to the top" did not come out of thin air. Women, for centuries, have at times chosen to use sex to get ahead at work, at post-secondary institutions, and in the movie business. Interestingly, it was so common that women would try to sleep their way to good grades that post-secondary institutions had to implement policy preventing profs from dating students. Men, on the other hand, have also exploited women who were willing to use sex to get ahead.

I haven't followed closely, but as soon as I hear that women accepted meetings in a hotel room, I have to question why they would agree to that. Surely they know that hotel rooms are not exactly where professionals meet to do business.

What happened is not right, but early on someone posed the question: why wait twenty years? I also wonder: why take a financial payout to remain silent? Aren't these women part of the problem? Had they gone to police twenty years ago, so many victims would not be victims. Did that not matter? Was money and success more important? Is it now that they are successful that they are seeking vengeance, or do they suddenly, en masse, have a collective guilty conscience because they did not report the alleged assaults to police?

I don't really understand why something they settled with money so long ago is now a problem for them.

 

[grammieto5]

OH WOW! I just had a thought. I wonder if Elizabeth Taylor ever had to deal with anything like this, or Joanne Woodward. Bette Davis? I can’t imagine anyone trying to make Bette Davis do something she did not want to do.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I am completely confused by this recent news, and don't know who to believe. The phrase "sleeping your way to the top" did not come out of thin air. Women, for centuries, have at times chosen to use sex to get ahead at work, at post-secondary institutions, and in the movie business. Interestingly, it was so common that women would try to sleep their way to good grades that post-secondary institutions had to implement policy preventing profs from dating students. Men, on the other hand, have also exploited women who were willing to use sex to get ahead.

I haven't followed closely, but as soon as I hear that women accepted meetings in a hotel room, I have to question why they would agree to that. Surely they know that hotel rooms are not exactly where professionals meet to do business.

What happened is not right, but early on someone posed the question: why wait twenty years? I also wonder: why take a financial payout to remain silent? Aren't these women part of the problem? Had they gone to police twenty years ago, so many victims would not be victims. Did that not matter? Was money and success more important? Is it now that they are successful that they are seeking vengeance, or do they suddenly, en masse, have a collective guilty conscience because they did not report the alleged assaults to police?

I don't really understand why something they settled with money so long ago is now a problem for them.

Wow. Just ... wow.


[emoji202]MOO

 

[grammieto5]

It's difficult to overlook the fact that if the first victim had gone to police, rather than enter into negotiations for money, there would not have been additional victims.

I do not see these questions as victim blaming. My G-kids are asking the same questions. In deed, why? And when I say G-kids, I mean, 13, 25, 26, 27 and 29 years old.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I do not see these questions as victim blaming. My G-kids are asking the same questions. In deed, why? And when I say G-kids, I mean, 13, 25, 26, 27 and 29 years old.

They don’t understand the abuse. Grooming, manipulation, gaslighting, abuse of position of power and authority.

It’s not the victim’s fault. Just like with child sexual abuse, the person in the lower role doesn’t want to eff everything up for everyone. They’re afraid they won’t be believed.

Google the “broken step” or “missing stair” in psychology and abuse. It’ll make perfect sense here.

ETA: definition link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_stair

[emoji202]MOO

 

[grammieto5]

They don’t understand the abuse. Grooming, manipulation, gaslighting, abuse of position of power and authority.

It’s not the victim’s fault. Just like with child sexual abuse, the person in the lower role doesn’t want to eff everything up for everyone. They’re afraid they won’t be believed.

Google the “broken step” or “missing stair” in psychology and abuse. It’ll make perfect sense here.

ETA: definition link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_stair

[emoji202]MOO

They don't understand, as some don't why wait twenty years? why take a financial payout to remain silent? I have never and never will blame a victim for anything that they have done or have not done. It's so sad that some here do not read a post and just focus on what is written. Stop putting your words into what I have written. You know nothing about me, nor do you know anything about my G-kids. AND you have no clue to how much my two oldest G-kids know about abuse!!! Time for me to walk away, people like you are not worth getting banned for.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I’m not putting words anywhere. You made a statement. I engaged you with my opinion regarding the topic of this thread, and a link to more information. We can disagree. That’s part of the point of this thread and the WS forum as a whole.

I’m saying it’s understandable TO ME why abuse victims didn’t immediately report it. I’m saying it’s understandable TO ME why someone in a position of power would offer a “hush money” settlement to shut down accusations. It’s understandable TO ME why all of this is unfolding like it is. Other actors have come forward on their own in the past and they have been shut down and shut out of the business.

It’s the “missing stair” theory in play. So, when several people find the courage to come forward and fix the missing stair ... there is power in numbers. Both to manipulate people into silence AND to seek justice and make a positive change.

That is my opinion.

Read the link about the “missing stair” if you want to; it might add some context to your questions and a deeper understanding. Or it might not. But that link and that psychological theory was the point of my post. It added context and depth for me in light of this thread topic. ymmv

Nobody’s attacking you or or family. I promise. At least, I’m not. At all. Perhaps you’re taking this too personally? To be clear, I don’t know you so it’s impossible for me to assume anything one way or the other about you or your family.

They don't understand, as some don't why wait twenty years? why take a financial payout to remain silent? I have never and never will blame a victim for anything that they have done or have not done. It's so sad that some here do not read a post and just focus on what is written. Stop putting your words into what I have written. You know nothing about me, nor do you know anything about my G-kids. AND you have no clue to how much my two oldest G-kids know about abuse!!! Time for me to walk away, people like you are not worth getting banned for.

They don’t understand the abuse. Grooming, manipulation, gaslighting, abuse of position of power and authority.

It’s not the victim’s fault. Just like with child sexual abuse, the person in the lower role doesn’t want to eff everything up for everyone. They’re afraid they won’t be believed.

Google the “broken step” or “missing stair” in psychology and abuse. It’ll make perfect sense here.

ETA: definition link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_stair

[emoji202]MOO

 

[otto]

They don’t understand the abuse. Grooming, manipulation, gaslighting, abuse of position of power and authority.

It’s not the victim’s fault. Just like with child sexual abuse, the person in the lower role doesn’t want to eff everything up for everyone. They’re afraid they won’t be believed.

Google the “broken step” or “missing stair” in psychology and abuse. It’ll make perfect sense here.

ETA: definition link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_stair

[emoji202]MOO

The references for that wiki comment don't inspire much confidence in this idea.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

The references for that wiki comment don't inspire much confidence in this idea.

There are more links and sources out there, natch. This one’s OK, too.

http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html?m=1


ETA more OK links:

https://captainawkward.com/2012/08/...e-of-the-creepy-dude-how-do-we-clear-that-up/

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2012/6/25/1103008/-Top-Comments-The-Missing-Step-Broken-Step-Edition

http://deirdre.net/some-thoughts-on-the-missing-stair-analogy/

https://publicaddress.net/up-front/the-missing-stair-part-two-the-creeper-and/





[emoji202]MOO

 

[bluesneakers]

There are more links and sources out there, natch. This one’s OK, too.

http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html?m=1


[emoji202]MOO

Thank you. I didn't know this term.

Missing stair is a term used to describe a sexual predator who many people know cannot be trusted, but who, rather than shunning, they work around by trying to quietly warn others. The analogy is to a structural fault in a house, such as a missing stair, that everyone who lives in the house has gotten used to and warns newcomers about, rather than fixing.

We've all seen that, known that person, heard the warnings. For many women it probably started in high school with the affectionate teacher. We couldn't do anything other than warn each other and look out for one another.

This isn't just about individuals, either. Everyone who says "I don't want to be a victim-blamer, but girls should know frat parties aren't safe places" is treating rape culture like a missing stair. Everyone who says "it's an ugly fact, but only women who don't make trouble make it in this business" is treating sexual harassment like a missing stair. Everyone who says "I don't like it either, but that's the way things are," and makes no move to question the way things are, is jumping over a missing stair somewhere.

Fixing staircases is a long and difficult and uncertain process. But let's at least stop blaming each other for not jumping well enough.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

(Snip)

“Actress Joan Collins, warned by Monroe about the ‘wolves’ in Hollywood, also wrote in her memoir that she missed out on the title role in 1963’s ‘Cleopatra,’ which went to Elizabeth Taylor, because she wouldn’t sleep with Buddy Adler, the head of 20th Century Fox.”


(Snip)

“It was the same decade that Variety first used the now-ubiquitous term for the abuse of power that Zanuck and other Hollywood execs were perpetuating behind the scenes — ‘the casting couch,’ according to Slate.

“Years later, in 1975, Newsweek would do a story titled ‘The Casting Couch’ in which it quoted the words on a plaque above the couch in the office of a Tinseltown producer in the 1950s: ‘Don’t forget, darling, tomorrow you’re going to be a star.’”

(Snip)

“Studio head Louis B. Mayer ‘terrorized Hollywood’s women long before Harvey Weinstein,’ according to a recent headline in the UK’s Telegraph.”

(Snip)

“Mayer would direct a 16-year-old Judy Garland to sit on his lap, whereupon he’d palm her left breast while telling her, ‘You sing from the heart’ — a creepy anecdote Garland recalled in a memoir.

“And an 11-year-old Shirley Temple got her first — and, she thought, hilarious — peek at the male anatomy courtesy of MGM producer Arthur Freed, who once dropped his pants during a meeting. Temple burst into laughter at the sight and was promptly ordered out of the room.

“Marilyn Monroe was among those who allegedly suffered sexual abuse at the hands of her MGM handlers.”

https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.c...s-of-sex-predators-long-before-weinstein/amp/

OH WOW! I just had a thought. I wonder if Elizabeth Taylor ever had to deal with anything like this, or Joanne Woodward. Bette Davis? I can’t imagine anyone trying to make Bette Davis do something she did not want to do.

[emoji202]MOO

 

[bluesneakers]

OH WOW! I just had a thought. I wonder if Elizabeth Taylor ever had to deal with anything like this, or Joanne Woodward. Bette Davis? I can’t imagine anyone trying to make Bette Davis do something she did not want to do.

Liz Taylor had sex with Mickey Rooney at just 14, new book claims: Wife of womanising star 'caught the couple in his dressing room'

There are also rumours she was raped by Peter Lawford when she was 12 and that Frank Sinatra forced her to have an abortion. And more.

Men behaving badly (and getting away with it) is nothing new.

'Casting Couch': The Origins of a Pernicious Hollywood Cliché

The casting couch—where, as the story goes, aspiring actresses had to trade sexual favors in order to win roles—has been a familiar image in Hollywood since the advent of the studio system in the 1920s and ’30s. Over time, the phrase has become emblematic of the way that sexual aggression has been normalized in an industry dominated by powerful men.

How did this seemingly innocuous phrase become so ensconced as a standard show-business trope? The casting-couch tradition originated in theatrical productions on Broadway well before the Hollywood film industry became the new locus of the entertainment world.

In his book The Boys From Syracuse: The Shuberts’ Theatrical Empire, Foster Hirsch details how Lee Shubert, the eldest of three brothers who helped establish Broadway’s theater district in the first two decades of the 20th century, kept “an elegantly furnished boudoir, reserved for leading ladies and promising ingenues, and a shabby, spartanly furnished room with a single couch where he met chorus girls and soubrettes.”

“If you didn’t sleep with them you didn’t get the part,” the dancer Agnes de Mille would later recall about the Shubert brothers. “The Shuberts ran a brothel: Let them sue me.”

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Thank you for sharing these links. The “casting couch” story from The Atlantic is very eye-opening.

Liz Taylor had sex with Mickey Rooney at just 14, new book claims: Wife of womanising star 'caught the couple in his dressing room'

There are also rumours she was raped by Peter Lawford when she was 12 and that Frank Sinatra forced her to have an abortion. And more.

Men behaving badly (and getting away with it) is nothing new.

'Casting Couch': The Origins of a Pernicious Hollywood Cliché

[emoji202]MOO

 

[otto]

There are more links and sources out there, natch. This one’s OK, too.

http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html?m=1


ETA more OK links:

https://captainawkward.com/2012/08/...e-of-the-creepy-dude-how-do-we-clear-that-up/

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2012/6/25/1103008/-Top-Comments-The-Missing-Step-Broken-Step-Edition

http://deirdre.net/some-thoughts-on-the-missing-stair-analogy/

https://publicaddress.net/up-front/the-missing-stair-part-two-the-creeper-and/

[emoji202]MOO

Blogs are really a reliable source for psychological theories, and my computer security completely blocked that site.

 

[Seajay]

It's been a man's world for a lot of years. Back then, this behavior was "accepted" (the casting couch) if you wanted to work in Hollywood at all.

Obviously, many of these victims DID tell someone. They either were not believed or it was determined the predator was too big and powerful to go up against with these claims.

Careers would be ruined. Names of the victims would be dragged through the mud. They would be black balled or black listed from working in Hollywood.

HW thought he was untouchable. If a male actor tried to approach him about accusations of an actress, (co-star, girlfriend or wife) the actor could find himself done in Hollywood as well. HW has been doing this for so many years and had gotten away with it, he wasn't paying attention that the outlook and prospective of that behavior had changed and not in his favor. He was that egotistical and narcissistic.

When you are sexually molested, you are first in disbelief. You are frightened and it haunts you. You try to figure out what you did wrong that this happened to you. You are also embarrassed and ashamed. So you don't tell anyone. You just want it to go away. What you find down the line, after years have passed and therapy is you were a victim. You did nothing to deserve what happened to you. This is when you find your voice and you finally say "Me, too." IMO