CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15

[katydid23]

Thanks, I knew BBM was bolded by me, but I didn't know this one, and I didn't see any bold face.

My post was a reply about "common sense". The posters I was replying to listed what they considered as common sense, I replied in kind, listing examples of what I consider as common sense. I don't know what any of those things "indicates", or if they indicate anything. People can do things that defy common sense for a variety of reasons unbeknownst to or not understood by others, but the scenarios alluded to in your and Satchie's posts are so shocking they are beyond my wildest imagination.

While we are at it, let me add one: common sense is that a crime of this scale and complexity was planned and carried out by more than one person.

Crimes such as this are often carried out by one person

Look up the Groene family murders

A lone predator was driving down the street and saw a little boy and girl playing outside in their sprinklers

Their mom snd strpdad and large 13 yr old brother and 2 pit bulls were home with them

The stepdad was over 6 ft 2 and very strong

The perp entered the home by himself and killed both adults and the teenager. Then he kidnspped the young kids snd took them on a road trip and camped out with them for weeks, eventually raping and killing the boy

He kept Shasta the 8 yr old with him until a Denny’s waitress recognized her and called 911

That family annihilation was not any less difficult than this one

And look up Darren Wint. Another home invasion where he kept 4 people hostage overnight—-one of them an experienced jujitsu master and tortured and killed them all

And he had been fired by the owner of the home and held the grudge long enough to kill his whole family

 

[QueenBofOB]

That sentence makes absolutely no sense. The exact opposite is true.

The guy's got a criminal record, a mile long. And that's just for the times he was CAUGHT.

 

[Satchie]

My post was a reply about "common sense". The posters I was replying to listed what they considered as common sense, I replied in kind, listing examples of what I consider as common sense.

This was JM mother's testimony at the trial:
"Blake asked the detective if she could cleanup...She took out the trash, cleaned out the coffee pot and washed the dishes. She did not dust or use any cleaning solvent like bleach."
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/trial-january-7th-2019.410396/page-22#post-14700977

LE had already been in the home and didn't think it was a crime scene. I believe it is incorrect to suggest this 'clean up' was some sort of screw up and is responsible for the lack of forensic evidence from the home.

 

[smr]

This was JM mother's testimony at the trial:
"Blake asked the detective if she could cleanup...She took out the trash, cleaned out the coffee pot and washed the dishes. She did not dust or use any cleaning solvent like bleach."
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/trial-january-7th-2019.410396/page-22#post-14700977

LE had already been in the home and didn't think it was a crime scene. I believe it is incorrect to suggest this 'clean up' was some sort of screw up and is responsible for the lack of forensic evidence from the home.

I seem to remember DuGal said when he talked to SB on the phone she mentioned she was cleaning up, and he told him to stop cleaning. Or was it McGyver? I think it's DuGal?

 

[QueenBofOB]

I totally agree with you. The family screwed up and they were not as concerned as they should have been, in my opinion. And I don’t want to judge or blame them because in hindsight we can find fault but we don’t know why they reacted they way they did

But I agree that they could have reacted more quickly and should not have messed with the potential crime scene. Although that doesn’t make Chase any less guilty

I think that’s one reason Chase felt confident he could buy done time. He knew the family was not that close and didn’t talk every day and it gave him the time he needed to try and cover and stage things

And probably was able to determine (that the family didn't speak or visit frequently), BY HANGING AROUND CONSTANTLY, to the point that SM was annoyed and the neighbors thought he lived there. That was his true motive (certainly not helping them), to observe their habits and plan from there...

 

[Cricket28]

No. But I believe it’s been stated that there are that many missing

Yes. It has been stated. I don't recall how many, I just know it's a heck of a lot.

MOO

 

[smr]

So far no relative from Summer's side has testified. Wonder if any will?

 

[travelbug]

But we don’t know what the cord was used for previously and who else used it. Maybe it was grabbed from the back of the truck and had been used many times before?

The same with the bra. Did Summer have help packing and unpacking in the move?

Did she have help washing snd folding or putting away her laundry? I used to pay someone to come help once a week when I had 2 toddlers.

I don't think we can really speculate until we hear the results. They may be non-conclusive, they may be easily explained for the same types of reasons you state, or they may be very compelling. Since they have results from 4 different people I would hope they would start by checking against CODIS for known criminals. Then I believe they would check to find out what those 4 people (criminal or not) have in common. We may not find those things out during the trial, because the PT may want to keep the info confidential to protect a new investigation. It's intriguing that part of the PT traveled to the location of the lab. Could it have been to have other items tested?

 

[katydid23]

This was JM mother's testimony at the trial:
"Blake asked the detective if she could cleanup...She took out the trash, cleaned out the coffee pot and washed the dishes. She did not dust or use any cleaning solvent like bleach."
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/trial-january-7th-2019.410396/page-22#post-14700977

LE had already been in the home and didn't think it was a crime scene. I believe it is incorrect to suggest this 'clean up' was some sort of screw up and is responsible for the lack of forensic evidence from the home.

Well, it is not a major screw up. Like you say, there was no blood evidence or anything cleaned up

But the garbage might have yielded some clues as to what they had been doing and maybe some receipts or notes from that last day....
And the dirty dishes might have shown if they had just left lunch wrappers or there were dinner dishes in the sink or the next days breakfast mess?

It would have been better if she hadn’t cleaned anything up

 

[LadyL]

I definitely considered the likelihood of trace evidence, not related to the crime. That is one of the reasons my focus was drawn to the electrical cord. The knot on the cord was very intricate and because the coating on that type of cord is water repellent it would be like to conceal some DNA from whoever tied that knot. I would expect the hair that was found would be Joey's, unless it was a short arm hair from the perp. I would not be as surprised to find DNA in the fibers from the blanket, because it most likely had been handled by several people. Likewise, I would expect the tested underwear to be very incriminating if it had DNA that didn't belong to the wearer. jmo

[bbm]

what kind of knot was it?

 

[travelbug]

[bbm]

what kind of knot was it?

I've never seen one like it before, it was sort of a combination mariner's, lasso and slip knot.

 

[Karinna]

So far no relative from Summer's side has testified. Wonder if any will?

What would you expect any of SM's relatives to testify to?

 

[Karinna]

Well, it is not a major screw up. Like you say, there was no blood evidence or anything cleaned up

But the garbage might have yielded some clues as to what they had been doing and maybe some receipts or notes from that last day....
And the dirty dishes might have shown if they had just left lunch wrappers or there were dinner dishes in the sink or the next days breakfast mess?

It would have been better if she hadn’t cleaned anything up

Yes, sadly the McStay home should of been treated as a potential crime scene much sooner, but it is what it is i guess.
But aside from that the State had enough to take it to Trial with some good evidence anyway.

 

[missy1974]

So far no relative from Summer's side has testified. Wonder if any will?

I thought the defense or prosecution mentioned her sister was the defense witness list. It's been a long day and I don't feel like checking notes though lol IIRC it has been said that Summer spoke to her sister that day, maybe they would call her to ask if Summer had mentioned any problems to her?

 

[missy1974]

I don't think we can really speculate until we hear the results. They may be non-conclusive, they may be easily explained for the same types of reasons you state, or they may be very compelling. Since they have results from 4 different people I would hope they would start by checking against CODIS for known criminals. Then I believe they would check to find out what those 4 people (criminal or not) have in common. We may not find those things out during the trial, because the PT may want to keep the info confidential to protect a new investigation. It's intriguing that part of the PT traveled to the location of the lab. Could it have been to have other items tested?

Does the defense have the ability to run the DNA like the State does? I don't know if they do.

 

[Mony Mony]

Does the defense have the ability to run the DNA like the State does? I don't know if they do.

IMO, it would be foolish for the defense to run the DNA. What if it comes back belonging to the two timed felon. That would be big oops. CM doesn't have to prove himself innocent. The prosecution only has to prove he is guilty.

 

[Karinna]

I thought the defense or prosecution mentioned her sister was the defense witness list. It's been a long day and I don't feel like checking notes though lol IIRC it has been said that Summer spoke to her sister that day, maybe they would call her to ask if Summer had mentioned any problems to her?

I think Summer's only problem was with Merritt IMO.

 

[smr]

What would you expect any of SM's relatives to testify to?

No idea. What would you?

 

[missy1974]

IMO, it would be foolish for the defense to run the DNA. What if it comes back belonging to the two timed felon. That would be big oops. CM doesn't have to prove himself innocent. The prosecution only has to prove he is guilty.

They have Chase's DNA lol That's how they know it isn't his. It's already been said that that it doesn't belong to the McStay's or Chase, that's all we have for now and it's not even really 'evidence'. Typically DNA reports are detailed, with the DNA they are comparing, it would be easy to compare the found DNA to the 'known'(Chase, McStay's) DNA IMO

 

[missy1974]

I think Summer's only problem was with Merritt IMO.

If that is the case and her sister knew that, I wonder why the State didn't call her as a witness then?