GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #3

[eileenhawkeye]

From this point on, I believe the lawyer is telling them exactly what to say:

“Everybody knows I love all my kids. I have a lot of them. I love them all. I love them all the same. Always have,” Barney Fowler, Isaiah and Leila’s father, told FOX40.

Isaiah’s older brother, Justin, also vows his support.

“I’m with my brother, 100 percent. We’re just trying to be positive. We all love my sister,” he said.

The Fowlers’ attorney, Mark Rei, characterized this as a unique case, describing Isaiah as a loving person.

“He’s doing remarkably well, under the circumstances,” Rei told FOX40. “The family’s doing remarkably well, under the circumstances. We stand firmly in front of our client to protect him. We stand with the family who’s united right now.”

Read more: http://fox40.com/2013/05/14/leila-f...-support-son-accused-of-murder/#ixzz2TKxS9xPK

 

[Mrs G Norris]

LE said the day they found her that they believed they had DNA. That was before any testing was done. How would they know the difference between her blood and his just by looking?

I keep thinking about the DNA. LE knew that day they had DNA. They had to have visually been able to differentiate that the DNA was from the perpetrator. It wasn't cast off or dripping blood, cause that could have been hers. It could have been skin under the nails. But usually if there is a stabbing, the victim will place her hand or hands over the place that hurts. Which means blood would obscure the skin under the nails.

So what DNA did they find that they automatically knew was from the attacker?

Oh god. I'm thinking the worst again. Perhaps they could separate her blood from the perps blood because of blood patterns at the scene though ..

 

[Ghostwheel]

Many years ago the Laci Peterson case was followed intently here at WS. One thing that raised LEs interest in SP was his freshly washed clothes. :seeya:

I remember. You'd think by now anyone with evidence on their clothes would know enough to burn them then hide the ashes with Aunt Gertrude or just stash the clothes in the Halloween decoration box in the rafters.

 

[snapdragon]

911 tape on link is snipped. I was unable to hear entirety that all discussed earlier. Of the snippet I did hear, what is telling is that brother was in shower... convenient for clean up.

IDK... but I am concerned about involvement of "others" related to suspect. Prior violence calls that are being reported? Maybe. 911 call doesn't bother me (but I did not hear the whole thing before it was edited). What bothers me is the hiring of a defense attorney to defend son if evidence points to him (looks like LE has revealed that evidence to some extent at this point). I mean, I get defending and trying to protect your child, but if the evidence is telling, you must think of the implications of this 12 yr. old being acquitted. If my son did this, i would be hiring a SHRINK, not a defense attorney, and hoping for life in psych care.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

911 tape on link is snipped. I was unable to hear entirety that all discussed earlier. Of the snippet I did hear, what is telling is that brother was in shower... convenient for clean up.

IDK... but I am concerned about involvement of "others" related to suspect. Prior violence calls that are being reported? Maybe. 911 call doesn't bother me (but I did not hear the whole thing before it was edited). What bothers me is the hiring of a defense attorney to defend son if evidence points to him (looks like LE has revealed that evidence to some extent at this point). I mean, I get defending and trying to protect your child, but if the evidence is telling, you must think of the implications of this 12 yr. old being acquitted. If my son did this, i would be hiring a SHRINK, not a defense attorney, and hoping for life in psych care.

I'm confused. What's wrong with hiring an attorney or getting a public defender for someone who's been arrested? That's the standard in every case unless the defendant is going to represent himself.

 

[MsFacetious]

In this case? I'd spend my money on the shrink.
Then I'd take my chances with a public defender
He can't be worse than this SUPER attorney. :hero:

https://twitter.com/reichellaw

 

[mysteriew]

Oh god. I'm thinking the worst again. Perhaps they could separate her blood from the perps blood because of blood patterns at the scene though ..

There could have been a blood trail, say to the bathroom. But even with that I would think they would want to have it tested before they announced it. Because it could have been blood dripping off something like the knife.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

There could have been a blood trail, say to the bathroom. But even with that I would think they would want to have it tested before they announced it. Because it could have been blood dripping off something like the knife.

Well, LE often say they have evidence which they are not sure they have in order to shake up a perp anyway .. so they may just have said it and hoped.

 

[MsFacetious]

There could have been a blood trail, say to the bathroom. But even with that I would think they would want to have it tested before they announced it. Because it could have been blood dripping off something like the knife.

But that would mean HE was injured too.
Wouldn't that make it easier for the parents to believe he's guilty?
Tough to explain a knife injury when your sister just got stabbed. :twocents:

Wouldn't it take less time with that to make an arrest?
The DNA wouldn't take 2 weeks with a rush on it.

 

[cluciano63]

But that would mean HE was injured too.
Wouldn't that make it easier for the parents to believe he's guilty?
Tough to explain a knife injury when your sister just got stabbed. :twocents:

Wouldn't it take less time with that to make an arrest?
The DNA wouldn't take 2 weeks with a rush on it.

Unless his story kept changing to fit the evidence...i.e maybe he tried to say he was stabbed after all at some point and LE was just being super-cautious before they charged him.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I remember. You'd think by now anyone with evidence on their clothes would know enough to burn them then hide the ashes with Aunt Gertrude or just stash the clothes in the Halloween decoration box in the rafters.

Your post made me laugh out loud - creepy but funny.

I am trying to read through all the pages because seems I've missed a lot but here are two questions and not sure if they've been addressed so maybe someone can answer:

Could they have tied the 'murder weapon' to the same knife that he got caught with at school previously? If it's a certain type of pocket knife, maybe they know he's had one in his possession before.

Secondly, I am at this point assuming the 4 older kids are all from Priscilla and Barney. Regardless, if they are all Crystal's 'stepkids' than why does she say my 'older son' on the recording? It makes it sound like she's talking about 'J'.

I think this phone call was so chaotic and confusing to the point that it made everything fall into place as to why he's guilty. Nothing about it makes sense because it assumes the intruder theory which we now know likely isn't the truth.

 

[MsFacetious]

Your post made me laugh out loud - creepy but funny.

I am trying to read through all the pages because seems I've missed a lot but here are two questions and not sure if they've been addressed so maybe someone can answer:

Could they have tied the 'murder weapon' to the same knife that he got caught with at school previously? If it's a certain type of pocket knife, maybe they know he's had one in his possession before.

Secondly, I am at this point assuming the 4 older kids are all from Priscilla and Barney. Regardless, if they are all Crystal's 'stepkids' than why does she say my 'older son' on the recording? It makes it sound like she's talking about 'J'.

I think this phone call was so chaotic and confusing to the point that it made everything fall into place as to why he's guilty. Nothing about it makes sense because it assumes the intruder theory which we now know likely isn't the truth.

We don't know about the knife.
But it's possible, given the number of stab wounds that it was a smaller knife.

She also says "my 12 year old son and my 9 year old daughter"....
So she referred to them both as "her" kids. (Leila would have been 9 in June.)

 

[CNNAnh]

A question,
Did LE confirm that, the 12 year olds boy fingerprint/blood and Leila's blood were the ONLY two fingerprints/blood that they find in Leila's bedroom?
If so, then chances that the 12 year olds boy did it is very likely, IF there no other traces of "someone" else was in the bedroom. That means, there only 2 of them, so the most likely the brother did it.
Or....the killer are very good at clean up all the fingerprint/blood and leave Nothing!

 

[Elainera]

It bothers me a lot too. I think there was a ton of stuff going on in that household that may have contributed to what this kid did.

I don't follow you. They arrested this kid relatively quickly -18 days after the murder. Maybe that's how long it took to get a blood spatter analysis or DNA evidence done. Maybe that's how long it took to get a confession. Maybe that's also how long they needed to eliminate the false lead given by the neighbor.

I love ya', but true crime t.v. is not reality. All I can tell you is how the law works in real life - not edited tv programs. You need probable cause for an arrest but even then, the district attorney may not authorize the arrest without more than probable cause because the speedy trial clock begins ticking the moment a person is arrested.

respectfully snipped an bbm

I'm surprised you find 18 days fast. There is a case here on WS about April Jones in the UK. She went missing on Oct 1 last year. Less than 24 hours later someone was arrested. There was no evidence such as DNA, fingerprints etc, available before his arrest, yet an arrest warrant was issued. The only things they did have was an eye witness - a 7 year old girl who saw April climbing into a car that could have been his, and possibly they saw blood during a search with luminol of his house which they had entered in the morning before his arrest. That's all they had when they issued an arrest warrant. They were right, he actually confessed while being arrested, and forensics has tied him to the crime afterwards. But when the arrest warrant was issued they had no proof.

It looks to me in this case (Leila Foweler) they must have had at least the same amount of pointers when they arrived at the house of the Fowlers. Is procedure so different in the UK than in the US? Do they really have to wait 2 weeks for DNA and fingerprints and what not to be confirmed before making an arrest? It's hard to believe. Is circumstantial evidence not enough for probable cause?

Maybe the neighbour's story really threw the investigation off track.

LE said the day they found her that they believed they had DNA. That was before any testing was done. How would they know the difference between her blood and his just by looking?

I keep thinking about the DNA. LE knew that day they had DNA. They had to have visually been able to differentiate that the DNA was from the perpetrator. It wasn't cast off or dripping blood, cause that could have been hers. It could have been skin under the nails. But usually if there is a stabbing, the victim will place her hand or hands over the place that hurts. Which means blood would obscure the skin under the nails.

So what DNA did they find that they automatically knew was from the attacker?

bbm - maybe it wasn't blood nor skin. Maybe it was hair, or ... some other fluid, iykwim?

 

[Cappuccino]

I'm surprised you find 18 days fast. There is a case here on WS about April Jones in the UK. She went missing on Oct 1 last year. Less than 24 hours later someone was arrested. There was no evidence such as DNA, fingerprints etc, available before his arrest, yet an arrest warrant was issued. The only things they did have was an eye witness - a 7 year old girl who saw April climbing into a car that could have been his, and possibly they saw blood during a search with luminol of his house which they had entered in the morning before his arrest. That's all they had when they issued an arrest warrant. They were right, he actually confessed while being arrested, and forensics has tied him to the crime afterwards. But when the arrest warrant was issued they had no proof.

The bar for an arrest warrant is alot lower in the UK than the US. American police need probable cause, but in the UK you can be arrested for questioning alone, without any probable cause needed.

 

[Elley Mae]

Earlier Tuesday, Reichel told The Associated Press that the youngster might have lied about seeing a long-haired man fleeing the scene, but that doesn't make the boy the killer. He said his client might have made up a "macho" story about scaring away the intruder because he was scared.

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/05/14/54...nce-in-girls-stabbing.html#storylink=misearch

In a recording released Tuesday, a woman can be heard calling 911 after getting a call about a mystery intruder from the girl's 12-year-old brother.

The caller, who said she was the girl's mother, said the children, including Leila Fowler, were OK. She was not at home at the time.

"My children are at home alone and a man just ran out of our house. My older son was in the bathroom and my daughter started screaming. He came out and a man was in the house," the panicked caller says in the call made April 27. "They said they're OK."

She added, "My daughter is freaking out right now."

In fact, Leila Fowler was dying of stab wounds.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Does it seem reasonable that the person in the background, asking what the cross street of Rippon is, could actually be talking to the older sister? And then Crystal is talking to the other 911 dispatch??

Yes, I picked up that she wasnt at the home but was calling to tell them to go to the home.

It sounds like she was referring to and talking to the older sister.....not Leila.

If the boy called her he must not have mentioned to her that Leila was seriously injured.

I wonder if she could hear Leila screaming in the background when she talked to the boy and thought she was freaking out due to the 'intruder.'

IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, I picked up that she wasnt at the home but was calling to tell them to go to the home.

It sounds like she was referring to and talking to the older sister.....not Leila.

If the boy called her he must not have mentioned to her that Leila was seriously injured.

I wonder if she could hear Leila screaming in the background when she talked to the boy and thought she was freaking out due to the 'intruder.'

IMO

IMO by the time the call to parents was made Leila was already close to death.


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[Zuckerschnecke]

IMO by the time the call to parents was made Leila was already close to death.


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I think so too. It's too coincidental that the parents were on their way home, close to home, the alleged intruder breaks in right when they are almost home and the boy happens to be in the shower (bathroom.) I think he stabbed her early on, possibly hours earlier, cleaned up, and knowing that the parents probably get home the same time after every ballgame, called them just in the knick of time for an alibi. He knows he wouldn't have been able to face them if they walked in and came upon the scene without giving himself time and 'the intruder' time to get away.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I think she was referring to the daughter that was on the phone with the brother "freaking out". The 911 call really didn't give us much to go on because the caller was not at the scene. I would be interested in hearing what the brother said.