Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #6 *both parents arrested/charged*

[cvaldez1975]

I know it has been discussed in the thread already, but I feel like the fact that they changed lead agencies is extremely telling. LE does not like letting go of being the lead agency, especially in a case as public as this. Perception is that the public will think poorly of them and lose trust in them. Something major was discovered to have them make BPD the lead. This article, although on a completely different type of case, goes over how important it is to establish the lead agency and what it means to let go of being the lead agency in a multi jurisdictional case. On the surface, this is a single jurisdictional case (all CCPD). Something major was discovered to move the case to BPD. I don't buy that it was moved to BPD due to resources etc. BPD/FBI could have continued to lend resources while CCPD was still the lead.

https://bja.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh186/files/Publications/SniperRpt.pdf

agree and to add. that they are looking for ppl who have seen the boys "in any capacity" for the last year.

 

[Rachelj1]

I know it has been discussed in the thread already, but I feel like the fact that they changed lead agencies is extremely telling. LE does not like letting go of being the lead agency, especially in a case as public as this. Perception is that the public will think poorly of them and lose trust in them. Something major was discovered to have them make BPD the lead. This article, although on a completely different type of case, goes over how important it is to establish the lead agency and what it means to let go of being the lead agency in a multi jurisdictional case. On the surface, this is a single jurisdictional case (all CCPD). Something major was discovered to move the case to BPD. I don't buy that it was moved to BPD due to resources etc. BPD/FBI could have continued to lend resources while CCPD was still the lead.

https://bja.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh186/files/Publications/SniperRpt.pdf

Completely agree I think it must of been something pretty significant.

moo

 

[WildOrchid]

Oh my gosh...a year?! Like poor little Taylor Williams.

agree and to add. that they are looking for ppl who have seen the boys "in any capacity" for the last year.

 

[MsBetsy]

I have a different viewpoint. I am a fan of the CC Chief. I think he did an amazing job communicating with the press and community. He had scarce resources, and made the most of them. He’s a rock star.

amateur opinion and speculation

I think the chief did a great job as well. They took a good amount of time and resources before they exhausted all leads. I think they just wanted to be 100% sure there was no physical evidence indicating a crime had occurred in that house before the case was turned over to Bakersfield.

It may be a long time before this case is solved. Bakersfield police have only just started their investigation and they may have to continue building the case on circumstantial evidence. Unless they find bodies or evidence that the boys are alive or deceased, it may take a long time.

 

[MsBetsy]

agree and to add. that they are looking for ppl who have seen the boys "in any capacity" for the last year.

Yes, I think they are trying to determine when the boys were last seen by someone other than the family, and to gather any information about the boys from as many witnesses as they can. Imo

 

[Deanna426]

Pre-Covid, whenever one of my six kids had a dentist or doctors appointment, I would bring all of my kids along. I would do this because I homeschool, my husband is usually working, and I don’t like the extra hassle of finding a sitter and then having to drop off/pickup kids or have someone come to my home when I can easily just bring them along with me. However, now with Covid and social distancing, I can’t bring them all anymore. The pediatrician only lets me bring in the child or children being seen. So it is totally possible that other kids in their family have had appointments with medical professionals and none of them would even question the two youngest not being present. MOO

 

[Limecat]

If you ask me, and no one did, they don’t exactly look “rambunctious “. Wary, weary, like those beautiful eyes have already seen too much misery...all MOO.

 

[FlossyMay]

If you ask me, and no one did, they don’t exactly look “rambunctious “. Wary, weary, like those beautiful eyes have already seen too much misery...all MOO.

Weary is a good way to describe the way they look.

I knew a woman years ago who had three "rambunctious" boys. When her family attended social gatherings, she would give the boys Benadryl to keep them calm. She eventually lost custody of all three.

I'm not saying that is what happened to O & O, but I think stuff like that happens more than we'd like to believe.

 

[mickey2942]

I think the chief did a great job as well. They took a good amount of time and resources before they exhausted all leads. I think they just wanted to be 100% sure there was no physical evidence indicating a crime had occurred in that house before the case was turned over to Bakersfield.

It may be a long time before this case is solved. Bakersfield police have only just started their investigation and they may have to continue building the case on circumstantial evidence. Unless they find bodies or evidence that the boys are alive or deceased, it may take a long time.

I wonder if the West's have been allowed any contact with their biological children? I believe that they are still in state custody?

If charges are not actually made against the parents, I wonder how long the state of California can keep the children away from their parents and other immediate family members?

 

[Aimeili]

I wonder if the West's have been allowed any contact with their biological children? I believe that they are still in state custody?

If charges are not actually made against the parents, I wonder how long the state of California can keep the children away from their parents and other immediate family members?

good question! I’m interested in this as well.

 

[mickey2942]

good question! I’m interested in this as well.

This has huge ramifications for parents rights. I don't believe that the State should be able to remove children from a household for an indefinite period of time.

Either declare that the Wests are suspects, and start the process, or let them be with their children. The State can't continue to keep the children away from the parents without cause.

And as much as I don't like the situation, in this instance, I would side with the Wests. They have not been identified as "suspects" or even "POI", yet their children have been removed from their home, going on 2-3 months?

 

[Chocoholic]

This has huge ramifications for parents rights. I don't believe that the State should be able to remove children from a household for an indefinite period of time.

Either declare that the Wests are suspects, and start the process, or let them be with their children. The State can't continue to keep the children away from the parents without cause.

And as much as I don't like the situation, in this instance, I would side with the Wests. They have not been identified as "suspects" or even "POI", yet their children have been removed from their home, going on 2-3 months?

Interesting. Makes me wonder if, even without enough to charge anyone with a crime, possibly they have a legal reason to keep the other children out of their custody. Sorry, I was looking for better wording, but I just don’t have it in me right now.

 

[MoeInVA]

Interesting. Makes me wonder if, even without enough to charge anyone with a crime, possibly they have a legal reason to keep the other children out of their custody. Sorry, I was looking for better wording, but I just don’t have it in me right now.

I have wondered this as well.

To take the other kids into emergency custody, and not let them stay in Grandma’s care, suggests to me that very early on law enforcement and/or CPS picked up on more than we know.

Here is a flow chart that Kern County links to about dependency cases.
http://www.fresno.courts.ca.gov/_pdfs/Dependency Process.pdf

The parents should have already had three hearings by now.

They may be working on a reunification plan.

This chart and other sites indicate the next hearing would be the 6 month review.

I would expect that either party has a right to request a review hearing sooner than that, though the main materials I have seen posted in CA don’t point that out.

I would expect that there has been supervised visitation of some sort, especially since there has not been an arrest for criminal charges that we know of (which I assume would be public record). The parents would be instructed not to discuss the case with the kids during calls or visits.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I have wondered this as well.

To take the other kids into emergency custody, and not let them stay in Grandma’s care, suggests to me that very early on law enforcement and/or CPS picked up on more than we know.

Here is a flow chart that Kern County links to about dependency cases.
http://www.fresno.courts.ca.gov/_pdfs/Dependency Process.pdf

The parents should have already had three hearings by now.

They may be working on a reunification plan.

This chart and other sites indicate the next hearing would be the 6 month review.

I would expect that either party has a right to request a review hearing sooner than that, though the main materials I have seen posted in CA don’t point that out.

I would expect that there has been supervised visitation of some sort, especially since there has not been an arrest for criminal charges that we know of (which I assume would be public record). The parents would be instructed not to discuss the case with the kids during calls or visits.

Aside from any criminal activity (that has not been formally communicated by police), keeping the kids elsewhere could be a safety issue due to the threats, etc. However, it is telling that the children aren’t able to go to a safe place *with* the parents, or extended members of their family?

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[mickey2942]

Interesting. Makes me wonder if, even without enough to charge anyone with a crime, possibly they have a legal reason to keep the other children out of their custody. Sorry, I was looking for better wording, but I just don’t have it in me right now.

Well, they could charge them with neglect or abuse of the biological children. If there is evidence of mistreatment.

But, at some point in time, either charge the Wests with a crime, or let them have their children back.

 

[Rachelj1]

.

This has huge ramifications for parents rights. I don't believe that the State should be able to remove children from a household for an indefinite period of time.

Either declare that the Wests are suspects, and start the process, or let them be with their children. The State can't continue to keep the children away from the parents without cause.

And as much as I don't like the situation, in this instance, I would side with the Wests. They have not been identified as "suspects" or even "POI", yet their children have been removed from their home, going on 2-3 months?

Completely disagree because they would NOT keep their children away this long without a reason. LE isn't going to publicy say they are suspects but you can safely assume they have not been ruled out.
moo

 

[JC40]

In light of the search warrant executed at the adoptive grandparents i went back a found this short statement.

PUBLISHED: , 7 February 2021

Adoptive grandmother, Wanda West, right, said: 'I just know they were really good parents as far as I'm concerned. 'Right now there are people outside the home, talking about where are the boys. 'It's like people don't realize we are grieving we are hurting just like they are'

In context i wouldn't normally put to much weight in the past tense reference given the boys are missing and the others have been taken away and they are not looking after them anymore. However, she goes onto use the word "grieving", this does concern me. This ("grieving") is most often used used when someone has past away. Along side the past tense reference is not good.

Grieving: To feel or cause to feel great sorrow or distress, esp at the death of someone.

It could be said that the pasting of time and LE suspecting "foul play has triggered this word, she may have heard another use it etc, and that adoptive families will yield quicker to the worst outcome than immediate family members, or, she has has guilty knowledge of something nefarious. Either way i don't like it,

 

[Rachelj1]

In light of the search warrant executed at the adoptive grandparents i went back a found this short statement.

PUBLISHED: , 7 February 2021

Adoptive grandmother, Wanda West, right, said: 'I just know they were really good parents as far as I'm concerned. 'Right now there are people outside the home, talking about where are the boys. 'It's like people don't realize we are grieving we are hurting just like they are'

In context i would put to much weight in the past tense reference given the boys are missing and the others have been taken away and they are not looking after them anymore. However, she goes onto use the word "grieving", this does concern me. This ("grieving") is most often used used when someone has past away. Along side the past tense reference is not good.

Grieving: To feel or cause to feel great sorrow or distress, esp at the death of someone.

It could be said that the pasting of time and LE suspecting "foul play has triggered this word, she may have heard another use it etc, or she has has guilty knowledge of something nefarious. Either way i don't like it,

I havent liked it and I still don't. You make great points. "grieving"?? What in the world are you grieving about? YOU grieve after a death? I hope my thoughts are wrong on their statements.

I actually think AV Watchmen was genuine .

MOO

 

[Rachelj1]

I wonder if the West's have been allowed any contact with their biological children? I believe that they are still in state custody?

If charges are not actually made against the parents, I wonder how long the state of California can keep the children away from their parents and other immediate family members?

Why do they deserve their kids back? They cant even keep track of 2 supposedly?

MOO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

This has huge ramifications for parents rights. I don't believe that the State should be able to remove children from a household for an indefinite period of time.

Either declare that the Wests are suspects, and start the process, or let them be with their children. The State can't continue to keep the children away from the parents without cause.

And as much as I don't like the situation, in this instance, I would side with the Wests. They have not been identified as "suspects" or even "POI", yet their children have been removed from their home, going on 2-3 months?

I disagree, because the "cause" for the separation is that 2 children went missing from the parents' watch - which even the parents admit- and it's still under investigation. The investigation is active.

Imagine if they returned the other children before it's concluded and another one went mysteriously missing. Whose rights do you think matter more - parental or the children's right to safety?

Also there may be evidence the public doesn't know about but LE and CPS know about. It's presumed all of the children have been interviewed.

The authorities haven't terminated TW and JW's parental rights. They are doing the right thing for now, because this isn't going to go on indefinitely.

All IMO.