Found Alive CA - Sherri Papini, 34, Redding, 2 November 2016 - #23

[DakotaMayi]

I don't see anything about LE lying about polygraph results in this article.

Well bears wouldn't have linked to an article about lying about polygraph results because that's not what you were discussing.

You were discussing LE telling suspects they believe they are being truthful when they don't think that all and how that doesn't put pressure on them when with Tyler Tessier it did just that. He was a mess at that presser.

Your post...

I agree.

If the idea is to put "pressure" on a suspect, it would stand to reason LE would make it clear that they felt the suspect was lying.

Telling the suspect and the public that they believe they are being truthful doesn't put much pressure on them at all in my opinion. JMO

 

[DakotaMayi]

I don't see anything about LE lying about polygraph results in this article.

ETA. Also, I don't see where LE told the suspect they believed he was telling the truth.

Now you have edited your post...

I think the fact that, as the quote suggested, they "staged an event" suggests they made him believe they thought he was being truthful. Otherwise their plan would have fallen apart.

 

[bears10]

Well bears wouldn't have linked to an article about lying about polygraph results because that's not what you were discussing.

You were discussing LE telling suspects they believe they are being truthful when they don't think that all and how that doesn't put pressure on them when with Tyler Tessier it did just that. He was a mess at that presser.

Your post...

Yes thanks... I never said they gave him a polygraph and told him he passed. I was referring to them staging the press conference to see what he had to say. Here's another article...

At the time, Montgomery County Police Chief Tom Manger said Tessier was already a person of interest in Wallen’s disappearance.

snip

“The decision to allow him to participate in that news conference was a calculated decision made by detectives in this case, with the expressed purpose of seeing what he had to say,” Manger said. “It was done with the approval and knowledge of victim’s family.”

snip

David Waltemeyer, senior law enforcement project manager with the Police Foundation in Washington, says investigators can use press conferences to observe a suspect’s behavior. They can evaluate if a person pretends to be emotional, gives contradicting statements or makes any comments that seem out of the norm, he said.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-press-conference-20170915-story.html

 

[bears10]

Not sure where I first read about the receipts but here is where michigan was first mentioned in Papini thread #12 -- From Nov 30, 2016: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ng-2-November-2016-12&p=12968258#post12968258

That thread references this article from just after she was found:

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article117934978.html#storylink=cpy

Now that I look at this original statement on Michigan I am changing my mind slightly. I don't think the new statement had anything to do with the receipts the press found (can anyone find where I read about receipts?). They had already disclosed the Michigan part of the investigation so I think that SCSO decided to give a little more info and say they had ruled that person out as being involved. Above he said they had not found anything "at this point". I suspect they were still somewhat investigating Michigan man as this was released very soon after she was found. He may not have wanted to rule him out completely until DNA came back. The newer statement this year said flat out that the man from Michigan was not involved. JMO.
​

Thanks... I did not know that LE commented on Michigan so early on in the investigation. I thought the receipts were the first official mention of Michigan.. thank you for clearing that up for me.

 

[gitana1]

Truth serum. So many times I've wished it existed.
Falsely accused? Truth serum! Clear yourself!
If only it existed... if it was 100% accurate there would be no reason to refuse.
I can understand hesitating on a polygraph for fear anxiety would trigger deception indications.
Truth serum would be the answer to so many cases!

Sodium Pentothal.

My memory doesn't serve me so well anymore, but I think Steven Capobianco was told he passed the LD test in the Charli Scott murder.

The police can lie, even to the public, about anything they want in order to further the investigation or manipulate subjects.
One case that stands out to me in this aspect is the Beverly Carter case.
Police nabbed Arron Lewis, and at a press conference stated there were no others involved, while all along knowing that his wife Crystal was going to be scooped up next.
IMO they did this so that she would feel comfortable, while they were nailing things down. Eventually she was arrested too and rolled over on dear hubby.
In other words, make nice with the one who can eventually be turned, who can squeak all the details.
**NOT saying this is what is going on in this case, just relating that there are times when they might want to make the one who can solidify their case feel comfortable, and build a rapport.

LE can lie to a suspect and they often do. And sometimes they make misrepresentations to the public like, "We have no reason to disbelieve the husband." Or, "the public is not in danger." Or "They need compassion right. Please respect their privacy" (like the case of the little boy found stuffed in the septic tank on the east coast).

I have never ever seen LE release an official statement in a press release that a suspect was cleared when they weren't. Such a press release could be used in court against the police. It doesn't happen.

KP has been cleared.

 

[CoolJ]

I think the fact that investigators actually travelled to Michigan to follow a lead tells me it was an important lead. Does not necessarily mean MM has done anything criminal, but they certainly thought MM had some valuable information.

Has there been any confirmation that MM is a doctor?

Has anyone looked to see if there was maybe a medical conference of some type in the SF area last November?

ETA - answered my own question: Yes there were a few that ended the day she went "missing"

https://www.conferenceseries.com/san-francisco-meetings

 

[gitana1]

Not sure where I first read about the receipts but here is where michigan was first mentioned in Papini thread #12 -- From Nov 30, 2016: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ng-2-November-2016-12&p=12968258#post12968258

That thread references this article from just after she was found:

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article117934978.html#storylink=cpy

Now that I look at this original statement on Michigan I am changing my mind slightly. I don't think the new statement had anything to do with the receipts the press found (can anyone find where I read about receipts?). They had already disclosed the Michigan part of the investigation so I think that SCSO decided to give a little more info and say they had ruled that person out as being involved. Above he said they had not found anything "at this point". I suspect they were still somewhat investigating Michigan man as this was released very soon after she was found. He may not have wanted to rule him out completely until DNA came back. The newer statement this year said flat out that the man from Michigan was not involved. JMO.
​

In the original statements about Michigan they never mentioned a specific person being investigated at all. And they gave an excuse for their investigation around that time and a reason why it didn't pan out:

“We haven’t found any relevance relating to her abduction into things from her past or the search of electronic data,” Bosenko said. “We haven’t found anything at this point.”

There was zero reason to now, a year later, bring some unknown guy into the case publicly and divulge that SP had been contacting him before the disappearance, intended to meet with him right before, and that he actually showed up in CA during that time, except to create an insinuation about what SP's mindset and behaviors might've been like prior to the disappearance.

To me it seems like a clear pressure tactic.

I have been thinking this scenario through. In this case, the captors presumably would NOT be two Latinas. Probably a man and a woman, given the DNA findings. What could their motive have been? Of course, I can't figure out a motive no matter who did it!

And assuming the captors were serious about hurting her family if she talked, I wonder why they would not just dispose of SP instead of taking any risk by letting her go. They were cold enough to torture her. Let's assume they are cold enough to harm children. Why this act of mercy? And WHY release her with items of evidence hanging all over her - DNA- strewn clothes, a chain, restraints, a headbag.

I just can't make any genuine kidnapping scenario fall neatly into place in my head. I do keep trying, though.

Some have repeated the theory that a couple of people decided to try to break into the sexual trafficking business and grabbed SP, possibly thinking she was younger at first. Then held her because the case got hot quickly so they couldn't really traffick her.

I guess in that scenario they didn't release her right away because they still thought they could use her at some point? Didn't want to get rid of
merchandise they'd gone to so much trouble to secure? Thought if they released her alive they could be easily caught?

And didn't kill her because they're not at that level?

What facts or lack of facts could support such a theory and what facts or lack of facts seem to negate such a theory? Or put it into question?

 

[Sillybilly]

Once again ... from Tricia's opening post #1 in this thread:

*You cannot use rumor and innuendo to explain your theory as to why Papini made up the kidnapping story. Must be fact-based. Meaning mainstream media and police sources.

 

[Levi]

I interviewed criminal profiler Pat Brown about Sherri Papini.

Here is the link to listen on iTunes / Apple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast...rime-victim/id1200565928?i=1000394671579&mt=2

If you don't have iTunes or an Apple device, you can listen here: https://audioboom.com/posts/6478703-sherri-papini-real-life-gone-girl-or-crime-victim

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

 

[Midge Montana]

I interviewed criminal profiler Pat Brown about Sherri Papini.

Here is the link to listen on iTunes / Apple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast...rime-victim/id1200565928?i=1000394671579&mt=2

If you don't have iTunes or an Apple device, you can listen here: https://audioboom.com/posts/6478703-sherri-papini-real-life-gone-girl-or-crime-victim

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

I listened to that the other day. I'm now enjoying some of your other episodes!

 

[Levi]

I listened to that the other day. I'm now enjoying some of your other episodes!

Thank you!

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

 

[natsound]

I interviewed criminal profiler Pat Brown about Sherri Papini.

Here is the link to listen on iTunes / Apple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast...rime-victim/id1200565928?i=1000394671579&mt=2

If you don't have iTunes or an Apple device, you can listen here: https://audioboom.com/posts/6478703-sherri-papini-real-life-gone-girl-or-crime-victim

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

I loved the interview! Thank you!

 

[lonetraveler]

KP passed lie detector tests.



Every time she speaks to the police about this case and gives them any information about the crime, if no crime actually was committed, the SOL clock is probably reset.

As far as KP passing the polygraph, well, there is the possibility IMO that at the beginning he maybe didn't know anything and passed the poly. IMO he became aware of what was happening later on and in order to save face and to make it easier for her to return, he had to become her spokesman and totally support whatever story came up. JMO

 

[Bootsctr]

Tricia Todd's ex-husband, Steven Williams, was told he passed the lie detector test and LE also announced he had passed in a public presser.

Williams lied to investigators for almost four weeks as crews searched endlessly for Tricia.
Williams even submitted to a lie detector test to prove his innocence. The Sheriff's Office said it did not reveal anything about his involvement in Tricia's disappearance.

http://cbs12.com/news/local/sheriff-tricia-todd-killed-in-front-of-young-daughter

Ultimately, he confessed. In getting that confession though, they lied and told him they had high-resolution CCTV of him walking back to his Bed & Breakfast. That was a lie! They only had very grainy footage of SOMEONE walking along the path LE suspected Williams took.

New show on Oxygen, Criminal Confessions, showed the interviews Williams gave as they narrowed down their suspects and focused solely on Williams.

A couple of clips from Criminal Confessions with two of the detectives that questioned Williams:

http://www.oxygen.com/criminal-conf...deos/criminal-confessions-bonus-105-sgt-carde

http://www.oxygen.com/criminal-conf...nfessions-sneak-peek-105-investigating-the-ex

 

[gitana1]

As far as KP passing the polygraph, well, there is the possibility IMO that at the beginning he maybe didn't know anything and passed the poly. IMO he became aware of what was happening later on and in order to save face and to make it easier for her to return, he had to become her spokesman and totally support whatever story came up. JMO

The statement regarding Thanskgiving is interesting. I feel it could have been a direct message from him to SP. A plea to a mother's heart. "I told the kids mama would be home by Thanksgiving.

If so, it worked.

I don't think he was involved. But I don't think he believed she was abducted by strangers necessarily at first. Although the discrepancy about whether he called the phone first has been debunked and that did help me form an opinion about him. So I have to rethink how I feel about him and what he thought, given that he did indeed try to call and text her.

 

[gitana1]

Tricia Todd's ex-husband, Steven Williams, was told he passed the lie detector test and LE also announced he had passed in a public presser.



http://cbs12.com/news/local/sheriff-tricia-todd-killed-in-front-of-young-daughter

Ultimately, he confessed. In getting that confession though, they lied and told him they had high-resolution CCTV of him walking back to his Bed & Breakfast. That was a lie! They only had very grainy footage of SOMEONE walking along the path LE suspected Williams took.

New show on Oxygen, Criminal Confessions, showed the interviews Williams gave as they narrowed down their suspects and focused solely on Williams.

A couple of clips from Criminal Confessions with two of the detectives that questioned Williams:

http://www.oxygen.com/criminal-conf...deos/criminal-confessions-bonus-105-sgt-carde

http://www.oxygen.com/criminal-conf...nfessions-sneak-peek-105-investigating-the-ex

Not close to the same. First of all, one main difference is between what LE states to the public and what they state to the suspect.

LE rarely tells the public the results of a lie detector test even though they may tell the suspects or lie about it to the suspects.

The second issue is LE did NOT say Williams passed. They stated:

The Sheriff's Office said it did not reveal anything about his involvement in Tricia's disappearance..

That is not the same as saying he passed.

Finally, they never stated he was "cleared". Anyone, show me one case where LE releases an official press release stating a person is cleared when they haven't been. Show me one. As it was in the same statement that KP passed a LDT it is not false.

KP has been officially cleared and is not involved in the disappearance.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

The statement regarding Thanskgiving is interesting. I feel it could have been a direct message from him to SP. A plea to a mother's heart. "I told the kids mama would be home by Thanksgiving.

If so, it worked.

I don't think he was involved. But I don't think he believed she was abducted by strangers necessarily at first. Although the discrepancy about whether he called the phone first has been debunked and that did help me form an opinion about him. So I have to rethink how I feel about him and what he thought, given that he did indeed try to call and text her.

BBM. I think you're being generous. [emoji8]JMHO, but KP changing his story to include prior calls/texts, when his first statements to 911 and the press just included the find my phone, isn't conclusive to me. I'd love LE to directly make a statement on the phone records.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[manormuskeg]

Does anyone have a link to the first Cameron Gamble reverse ransom video? I can't find it anywhere.

 

[Gardener1850]

The statement regarding Thanskgiving is interesting. I feel it could have been a direct message from him to SP. A plea to a mother's heart. "I told the kids mama would be home by Thanksgiving.

If so, it worked.

I don't think he was involved. But I don't think he believed she was abducted by strangers necessarily at first. Although the discrepancy about whether he called the phone first has been debunked and that did help me form an opinion about him. So I have to rethink how I feel about him and what he thought, given that he did indeed try to call and text her.

There is NO direct quote from KP on what he told his kids about Thanksgiving. The "he promised his kids she would be home for Thanksgiving" was a reporter's words. No quotes around them at all. KP never did an interview with the Daily Mail-- the only "newspaper" to publish that about a promise to the kids. DM spoke to his father but the article doesn't even directly quote KP's father saying "He promised..." or "he knew" she would be home. The quoted part says they "hoped" she would be home by then but he also says twice they didn't believe it would come true. Plus this article, the only article that mentions this so-called "Thanksgiving Promise", was published AFTER Sherri was found. So it could not have been a message to her pleading for her come home.

Here is the writing about the thanksgiving promise in context:

Ken said his son had always believed he'd bring his family back together.

Last week he promised their two children, Tyler four and Violet, two, that 'mommy' would be home by Thanksgiving.

'Of course we all hoped it would come true, you have to have faith,' said Ken.
'But we had planned to have a nice family Thanksgiving and none of us were allowed to mention it, we would only talk about forgiving and thanks. 'None of us imagined it might actually come true.'
'None of us imagined it might actually come true.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...omised-children-d-holidays.html#ixzz4yLhvsRJR

​

 

[lonetraveler]

The statement regarding Thanskgiving is interesting. I feel it could have been a direct message from him to SP. A plea to a mother's heart. "I told the kids mama would be home by Thanksgiving.

If so, it worked.

I don't think he was involved. But I don't think he believed she was abducted by strangers necessarily at first. Although the discrepancy about whether he called the phone first has been debunked and that did help me form an opinion about him. So I have to rethink how I feel about him and what he thought, given that he did indeed try to call and text her.

I too think that the publishing of his comment that he told the kids she would be home on Thanksgiving was a message to her to "reappear".