Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #26

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To me, unlawful confinement seems like a given - the reason being: he was in that house for what, 1.5 hours? During which time he struck blows to all 3 victims, and dragged them around. That, to me, is absolutely unlawful confinement. Would they not have wanted to or tried to leave the house in the 1.5 hours DG was there? Of course - and by way of violence and incapacitation, he kept them from doing so - thus - unlawfully confined them. If they died in that house, with that logic - that's first degree for NO. And if they were alive when he took them, that kidnapping - first degree as well.

I don't know the law well enough to say for sure, but using logic, they were either unlawfully confined, or kidnapped, or both, and died during. Thoughts?
 
IMO the fact that the ME could not conclude that they died in the house speaks louder than the fact that she could not conclude that they didn't.
 
This afternoon is going to be

:rollercoaster: + :drama: + potential :jawdrop: and :freakedout:
 
dogmatica said:
To me, unlawful confinement seems like a given - the reason being: he was in that house for what, 1.5 hours? During which time he struck blows to all 3 victims, and dragged them around. That, to me, is absolutely unlawful confinement. Would they not have wanted to or tried to leave the house in the 1.5 hours DG was there? Of course - and by way of violence and incapacitation, he kept them from doing so - thus - unlawfully confined them. If they died in that house, with that logic - that's first degree for NO. And if they were alive when he took them, that kidnapping - first degree as well.

I don't know the law well enough to say for sure, but using logic, they were either unlawfully confined, or kidnapped, or both, and died during. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be either confined or kidnapped. First degree murder is murder which is planned and deliberate. I'm confident it was planned and deliberate.
 
naz said:
I think they were there when he was first arrested... July 4 or 5th, not 100% sure though.
Click to expand...

Yes the cuts and bruise on his knee are from the first time he was arrested on July 4th. So they can not be from the barbed wire fence during the chase when he was arrested the second time. If he received any injuries during that chase they were not presented as evidence. In fact in his perp walk you can't even see the scrapes anymore.
 
musicaljoke said:
It doesn't have to be either confined or kidnapped. First degree murder is murder which is planned and deliberate. I'm confident it was planned and deliberate.
Click to expand...
The defense could most definitely cast a reasonable doubt on whether Nathan's murder was planned. As far as we know, Nathan's presence at the house was not foreseen by DG. It could easily be argued that as a last minute thing he was killed. KL and AL - most definitely planned. Nathan - there's not proof of that. That's why they upgraded to 1st degree for him - his death wasn't planned, but he was killed during UC or a kidnapping.
 
Bryan LabbyVerified account ‏@CBCBryan 10m10 minutes ago
Crown has closed in the #Garland case, we should know by 1:30 whether the defence will call any witnesses.
 
JadeSLeuth said:
This afternoon is going to be

:rollercoaster: + :drama: + potential :jawdrop: and :freakedout:
Click to expand...

It will definitely be dramatic if they choose to present evidence but I think no matter what they decide this afternoon will go very quickly. They wouldn't actually have to present their evidence this afternoon.
 
That Journal and "other" stuff will come to the forefront when we get to hear "what the jury didn't hear" after the Jury is sequestered. That green sweater may be explained and I'm going to take a guess and say that more evidence was found to support the theory that the victims were alive at the farm but got argued out.


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dogmatica said:
To me, unlawful confinement seems like a given - the reason being: he was in that house for what, 1.5 hours? During which time he struck blows to all 3 victims, and dragged them around. That, to me, is absolutely unlawful confinement. Would they not have wanted to or tried to leave the house in the 1.5 hours DG was there? Of course - and by way of violence and incapacitation, he kept them from doing so - thus - unlawfully confined them. If they died in that house, with that logic - that's first degree for NO. And if they were alive when he took them, that kidnapping - first degree as well.

I don't know the law well enough to say for sure, but using logic, they were either unlawfully confined, or kidnapped, or both, and died during. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Law/Offences/Kidnapping_and_Unlawful_Confinement

Some light reading re kidnapping and confinement.


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[video=twitter;829780020235116544]https://twitter.com/660NEWS/status/829780020235116544[/video]
 
[video=twitter;829780534914084864]https://twitter.com/metrocalgary/status/829780534914084864[/video]
 
This is either going to be the most boring or the most interesting afternoon.
 
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