Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #5

[SCHMAE]

You don't need to do that in this manner, since it could be a tad annoying for the readers. . There is a lovely feature at the top "View First Unread". Just click on that and hey presto, you are instantly taken to your last spot.

Well , marking my spot is not accurate. I'm ' subscribing' to the new thread because the one in my list was the closed thread because so many posts are zooming by on this one. Also, I'm a dummy with most of the features on this site

 

[puppyraiser]

What does "somewhat cooperative" mean in terms of the POI assisting police? Is he sending LE out into the fields on a wild goose chase or is there really evidence out there for them to find?

 

[Watson-1975]

What does "somewhat cooperative" mean in terms of the POI assisting police? Is he sending LE out into the fields on a wild goose chase or is there really evidence out there for them to find?

Typically when LE states that the POI is being "Somewhat Cooperative" it simply means that he has provided information to them but has infact retained a lawyer to protect his personal rights.

When LE starts to question a POI in any case they begin by taking an friendly and bonding approach to gain trust with the POI, when the POI questions LE on any matter through the process the tactics change and the POI will typically retain a Lawyer.

I dont believe that the POI in this case has given LE approval to search his family property or properties in this case, LE probably made a strong enough case to have a warrant issued for the purpose of the search.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

In terms of the future Edmonton home purchase. If the home was purchased already versus to be purchased at a later date, I would think LE have checked that location out. I have not read any details of the Edmonton home. If it was me, I would have checked there in case someone went there for safety.

I say future because it has not been confirmed whether the home in Edmonton was purchased already or to be purchased.

 

[Watson-1975]

I wish that the MSM would ask easier questions like, Was the POI in this case under survelance prior to his arrest? On what grounds was the search of the POI properties taken Was a warrant issed and if so what evidence was provided to obtain the warrant?

NOTE: I followed very closely the Bosma case as it took place within my area. Im begining to see some similarities between the case of NO and his grandparents and Mr Bosma, the similarities from how LE and the Media are presenting information. I have read through most of the posts on this case and find it troubling that "we" sluethers are heavily focused on speculation and assumptions made throughout the threads.

With all do respect, we must remain articulate and careful with how we discuss the POI and the Victims, we should not be calus with how we talk.
In the Bosma case a POI was speculated on in the early going of the case and was later officially cleared of any involvement, however his life im sure is and will not be the same forever being a POI in that case and how the media and well bloggers and posters and sluethers alike picked away at his life looking for any reason to tie him to the Bosma case.

 

[Andromeda]

I don't understand why Calgary police are now saying they're "hopeful that the missing persons are still alive" while they poke around in the weeds. Are they expecting to stumble upon NO and his grandparents having a picnic in the middle of an overgrown field? It's one thing for the parents of NO to keep hope alive, but usually LE admits that when people are missing for this long they are likely dead. I think it's somewhat irresponsible of Calgary police to be saying this. It reminds me of the missing malaysian airplane, where the relatives insist their family members are still alive somewhere months later just because no wreckage has been found. Calgary police have already admitted something violent appears to have happened at the home and yet they are sticking with this claim that (paraphrasing) 'until we have evidence that they're dead we consider them to still be alive'. Maybe this is to keep the amber alert going, I don't know, but it seems very strange and not typical protocol under these kinds of circumstances...

This is why I keep going back to AL having worked with a third party to get KL and NO out of the house and that they maintain the Amber Alert because they're confident NO is with family/has not been harmed. This after LE 'had' to release DG and said there were no charges and stated that there are other POI/s, I'm believing there was a staged plan that night (stranger/danger via estate sale).

LE said that they will stay at the Airdrie property (paraphrasing) until such time that they have exhausted finding any evidence or finding evidence of relevance to the case. Evidence being? A victim who may have succumbed to their injuries? A hiding place ("no stone left unturned"). They had K-9 on the scene a couple of days ago and LE admit to sending 'evidence' to the crime lab for evaluation. But they're not saying if it's related to NO's case. I suspect not because as somebody pointed out way up thread, nobody had been in those field before them. The (hay?) would have showed a path/trail and lead them to where they needed to go.

This is an awful thought. But if LE's K-9 are hitting on evidence, my mind automatically trails to Picton/pig farm case and how evidence of his victims were spread about. Maybe they have happenstanced upon a serial killer.

As per...http://http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-amber-alert-police-question-person-of-interest-1.2697512

""It's still a missing persons investigation," said Staff Sgt. Doug Andrus with the Calgary Police Service's Homicide Unit. "We're hopeful we'll find these individuals and family members alive."

Note the word "find these individuals" (identify them/cold cases?).

Or he could also be referencing the individuals (more than just DG) who are helping AL and/or are holding AL/KL/PO

K-9 has me thinking there is more to this acreage than maybe meets the eyes.

jmo

 

[Andromeda]

Yes, the mother's use of past tense is really alarming.

LO: "Yeah, he's friendly. He's very smart. He's very religious. He loves God. He knows God's watching over him right now. And his gramma and him were best friends. "

So god is watching over him (and his gramma) *were* best friends.

I think she knows it was her mom who was hurt and her step-dad has NO. She may be confident that Nathan will be alright and they will get him back; however, RO is frantic and desperate and is not so confident. I know I wouldn't be knowing that someone was in medical distress and hearing that LE had K-9 at the acreage in Airdrie.

Sorry - I thought I had replied with quote. This is in response to #354 deugertni (sp)

 

[bakerlady]

I was just watching mythbusters the other day and they did a scent dog experiment and those dogs are so accurate at finding things even after they maske the smell with various substances. I always hear stories about these amazing dogs finding things in airports and sniffing bombs but they always seem to fall short in these missing persons cases. Maybe I am being cynical or forgetful but I can not think of a recent case when a dog has actually led LE to a body or evidence. I wish they would bring in more dogs or more experienced dogs and train these dogs better. How can the scent of three people not be followed but one pot leaf can be sniffed out in a crowded parking lot? <end rant>


Where were/are DG's parents throughout this whole ordeal?

I find it strange that there is no mention of cell phone pings or call records for any of the adults in this case. Surely they all had cell phones, at least AL and KL who were conducting business and whatnot. A real estate agent without a cell phone might as well be blind and deaf. Normally there is mention of what was left in the home and what was taken.

Forensic evidence would have linked the seized truck to the Liknes by now. I find it highly unlikely DG could have transported 3 bodies and not left any scent for a dog to pick up or some type of physical evidence.


I remember reading about another family member who was shot and another who just got out of jail, or maybe they are the same person...who was it? I can't find anything but I am wondering if DG was in contact with them...or perhaps they are LE's other POI?

The business going under and all the money problems really stand out in this case. There are so many stories of people losing their minds and 'going postal' when they are suddenly unemployed and/or owed a large sum of money. The term originates from workplace rage and I can see that being a major possibility.

 

[Watson-1975]

Timeline
Here&#8217;s a timeline of events in the investigation, with links to more information.



June 30 - Disappearance of Calgary boy, 5, grandparents being treated as 'suspicious'

Police issue an Amber Alert for five-year-old Nathan O&#8217;Brien and his maternal grandparents Kathryn Faye Liknes, 53, and Alvin Cecil Liknes, 66.

The trio went missing over the weekend as the grandparents held an estate sale at their home.

Police say they didn&#8217;t initially issue an Amber Alert because they didn&#8217;t have a description of a suspected abductor or a vehicle, but then changed their minds.

&#8220;We have no information to go on at this time, and that&#8217;s the reason we&#8217;re reaching out to the public,&#8221; says police spokesman Kevin Brookwell.



July 1 - Calgary police: Missing boy, grandparents 'did not leave on their own volition'

Police say they&#8217;re concerned for the safety of Nathan O&#8217;Brien and his grandparents, and fear that &#8220;foul play&#8221; was involved in their disappearance.

Calgary police spokesman Duty Insp. Keith Cain says the grandparents&#8217; house showed signs they &#8220;did not leave on their own volition.&#8221;



July 2 - Missing Calgary boy's family issues emotional plea for their 'superhero'

The parents of five-year-old Nathan O&#8217;Brien issue a public plea for the return of their son and the boy&#8217;s maternal grandparents Kathryn Faye Liknes and Alvin Cecil Liknes.

Rod O&#8217;Brien, Nathan&#8217;s father, asks that &#8220;whoever has Nathan, to find it in your heart to drop off our little angel &#8230; to where he can be rescued and reunited with his family.&#8221;


July 3 - Calgary police 'confident' they'll find missing boy, grandparents

Police Staff Sgt. Doug Andrus says the grandparents were in the process of moving out of their Calgary home, and held an estate sale the same weekend they went missing.

Investigators appeal to anyone who attended the estate sale on June 28-29 to speak to police.


Jul 4 - 'Violent incident' took place at Calgary home in missing family case

Police confirm a &#8220;violence incident&#8221; took place in the southwest Calgary home where grandparents Kathryn Faye Liknes and Alvin Cecil Liknes were with five-year-old Nathan O&#8217;Brien.

In a chilling remark, Staff Sgt. Doug Andrus says evidence at the scene indicates someone would be in &#8220;medical distress.&#8221;

Police also say they want to speak to the driver of a green truck captured on surveillance video.


July 7 - Who is Douglas Garland, 'person of interest' in Calgary Amber Alert case?

More details emerge on Douglas Garland, described by police as a &#8220;person of interest&#8221; in the case.

On July 7, Garland appears in court on unrelated charges stemming from his use of a false identity in the 1990s, when he lived in British Columbia.


July 8 - Several different leads in Amber Alert case: Calgary police

Calgary police spokesman Kevin Brookwell confirms Douglas Garland&#8217;s sister is in a relationship with a member of the Liknes family.

Broowell also says Garland isn&#8217;t the only &#8220;person of interest&#8221; in the case.

Investigators hold out hope that Nathan O&#8217;Brien, Kathryn Faye Liknes and Alvin Cecil Liknes will be found alive, and an Amber Alert remains in effect.



Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/map-and-timeline-calgary-amber-alert-case-1.1904896#ixzz36yn5OPQ5

 

[MaraSleuth]

We still don't know for sure that they purchased a home in Edmonton. Yes their son JL mentioned this at the 1st presser but if you watch it he seems rather hesitant when questioned by reporters about comments from the L's neighbors who claim KL seemed to be telling different neighbors different stories about where they were moving to (she reportedly told some they were moving to Edmonton, some they were moving to Mexico, and some they were moving to Northern Alberta)..........and their Kijiji ads state the reason for their estate sale/selling all items in this home because they were "moving out of the country." Strange and doesn't really make much sense to claim to be moving out of the country if you bought a house in Edmonton and that's where your new home will be. Also seems strange to me, given how close AL and KL were to NO, that they'd move out of Calgary. All IMO.

Maybe they were moving out of country but were going to use an address in Edmonton to collect canadian benefits. They'd have to live partially in canada to receive benefits. I have a friend whose mom comes here from Europe to live with them to keep her canada pension etc.

 

[Cherchri]

Wouldn't they (LE/MSM) have stated that it was one of the missing persons' cards, if it were? If it indeed were, then wow, that is pretty damning evidence! I'd vote guilty if I was a juror!

So you can see what I was so wound up about that. Clearly not the case since outofthedarkness provided information stating the card is in the name of MKH. Grateful for that as well as your insights. Thank you both.

 

[Watson-1975]

As i relisten to some of the media coverage of this case, i find it troubling that everything from LE and statements made by family sounds so scripted, However, I do hear the emotion in the family members voices, but yet its puzzling to hear scripted information it definitly leads my thought process to assume that those family members have shared alot more information with LE than we are led to believe.

JMO

 

[meterclicks]

Where were/are DG's parents throughout this whole ordeal?

I find it strange that there is no mention of cell phone pings or call records for any of the adults in this case. Surely they all had cell phones, at least AL and KL who were conducting business and whatnot. A real estate agent without a cell phone might as well be blind and deaf. Normally there is mention of what was left in the home and what was taken.

One would assume that LE would be in contact with DG's parents. I'm sure they want to stay away from the media and such. Who knows what they know. I'm curious on this front too though.

I also find it strange the lack of mention from LE or the family really about anything personal with AL/KL (cell phones, daily activity, etc). I'm just thinking that I would want as much information out there as possible in hopes of someone knowing something that maybe they feel isn't relative. But at the same time, I understand that there are just details that they don't want released but it's frustrating.

 

[smoothcheetos]

The more I read, the more information that's put out there about this case...the more confident I become that this is a big old mess. Holy Moley.

 

[Watson-1975]

One would assume that LE would be in contact with DG's parents. I'm sure they want to stay away from the media and such. Who knows what they know. I'm curious on this front too though.

I also find it strange the lack of mention from LE or the family really about anything personal with AL/KL (cell phones, daily activity, etc). I'm just thinking that I would want as much information out there as possible in hopes of someone knowing something that maybe they feel isn't relative. But at the same time, I understand that there are just details that they don't want released but it's frustrating.

I wonder if any of us sluethers have searched through the commonlaw relationship between AL son and DG sister and found any other connection or images from their social media pages, Facebook, Linkdin, Instagram Twitter ect....... perhaps there is information or previous posts regarding the Parents or others involved in DG life

Just curious if this avenue has been fully explored, if someone could direct me or share with me the correct links, spelling of names i will conduct some research and post what i find.

 

[KMouse]

I was just watching mythbusters the other day and they did a scent dog experiment and those dogs are so accurate at finding things even after they maske the smell with various substances. I always hear stories about these amazing dogs finding things in airports and sniffing bombs but they always seem to fall short in these missing persons cases. Maybe I am being cynical or forgetful but I can not think of a recent case when a dog has actually led LE to a body or evidence. I wish they would bring in more dogs or more experienced dogs and train these dogs better. How can the scent of three people not be followed but one pot leaf can be sniffed out in a crowded parking lot? <end rant>

Because in an airport the weather conditions are perfect. There's no rain and there's no wind. If a person gets into a vehicle the scent stops there.
A dog may have hit on the scents of the missing but the conclusion was probably that they got into a vehicle.

 

[Coldpizza]

Search continues for missing Calgary boy and grandparents as police send possible evidence for testing from person of interest&#8217;s property
Erika Stark, Postmedia News | July 9, 2014 9:53 AM ET

&#8220;The search will continue until no stone has been left unturned,&#8221; said Calgary Police spokesman Kevin Brookwell in the first media update on the case since Saturday.

Day 9 of the Amber Alert for five-year-old Nathan O&#8217;Brien and his grandparents saw dozens of officers once again combing through fields near Airdrie, searching for any evidence that could lead them closer to finding the trio. They were first reported missing June 30.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...m-person-of-interests-property/?__federated=1

 

[Krystine]

I have never followed anything of this nature so closely, but it seems to me that LE is being extremely stingy with what they are sharing. The world is waiting with baited breath for any news that brings us further to a happy ending, or at least some kind of closure. Some of us are agonizing alongside the family.

My point is, I can't help but wonder whether this_ is_ a kidnapping situation, complete with a ransom demand, that we are not aware of. Anything more seems way too sinister to imagine. A suburban couple, grandparents would not bring this kind of pain to the family (plotting their own disappearance), nor would a 66 year old man with a physical disability murder his wife and flee with a 5 year old.

I firmly believe NO's parents know more, but are not daring to make any statements to jeopardize the safety of their child/ parents.

 

[Cherchri]

Those parents are not dealing with a normal/natural situation. After my daughter and my son died I found myself at times referring to them in present tense ... when obviously that was not the case. It's a mixed bag of emotions that no parent should ever have to experience. I feel the mom is aware of a reality that her child may never come home, while hoping beyond hope that is not the case. I don't think we can or should judge her based on an odd-placed word. We observed many more odd-placed words and situations with Tori's mom and it ultimately proved not to be the case.

I am so very sorry to read this SillyBilly. My heart goes out to you.

 

[Cherchri]

I wonder if any of us sluethers have searched through the commonlaw relationship between AL son and DG sister and found any other connection or images from their social media pages, Facebook, Linkdin, Instagram Twitter ect....... perhaps there is information or previous posts regarding the Parents or others involved in DG
Just curious if this avenue has been fully explored, if someone could direct me or share with me the correct links, spelling of names i will conduct some research and post what i find.

I have searched extensively by all those means Watson and not found anything germane or helpful to this situation.