Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #7

[HulaMum]

I think that Nathan is missing because he would be able to identify the perp, and the person responsible was not going to take that chance.

In order to understand what happened, I think we need to envision how this would have played out if Nathan had not been there. That is, if the parents had vanished right after they closed the office and liquidated the house, what would people assume if they simply vanished?

I agree with you, otto.

If Nathan had not been there, I believe this case would have gotten hardly more attention than the Calgary couple who were killed recently in their home (originally thought to be carbon monoxide poisoning). So, minimal attention. Adults who go missing (especially with the moving plans, estate sale, house sale) just do not whip up the media and public focus like this case has.

If Nathan was not involved, my personal opinion from reading the news would have been that the adults took off. Knowing about the blood at the scene would have made me think it was a domestic incident and that one of either AL or KL was on the run. And then the case may have faded from headlines...

I think the perp was counting on this. I still believe that Nathan's presence was a surprise and that his being there forced the perp to change his original plans somehow. IMO.

 

[otto]

I agree with you, otto.

If Nathan had not been there, I believe this case would have gotten hardly more attention than the Calgary couple who were killed recently in their home (originally thought to be carbon monoxide poisoning). So, minimal attention. Adults who go missing (especially with the moving plans, estate sale, house sale) just do not whip up the media and public focus like this case has.

If Nathan was not involved, my personal opinion from reading the news would have been that the adults took off. Knowing about the blood at the scene would have made me think it was a domestic incident and that one of either AL or KL was on the run. And then the case may have faded from headlines...

I think the perp was counting on this. I still believe that Nathan's presence was a surprise and that his being there forced the perp to change his original plans somehow. IMO.

I think this was timed to coincide with a time when the grandparents were expected to disappear by choice. If there had been no blood, it would look like they simply left of their own free will. If there was blood, it would look as if there was a spousal homicide and the search would be for one of the grandparents - probably stretching all the way to Mexico. With Nathan missing, it turned into a huge manhunt, but without Nathan, I doubt it would have been in the news for more than a day.

That, in itself, suggests to me that the perp knew the victims and knew of their plans.

 

[ztzt]

I wonder if DG has access to the Internet now that he's released? He might see these discussions...

 

[HulaMum]

Seems to me MOO everyone here is just trying to do their best to understand what may have happened with the hope that worthwhile areas of investigation might be pursued by LE (we can be quite sure they're lurking here) all with the hope that this beautiful family might be found and brought home. IMO IMHO. In a more perfect world what would you suggest would be a more acceptable way to examine this crime and the circumstances around it?

I agree. I think it's human nature to be compelled to figure something like this out. I, for one, appreciate every theory I have read on here. You never know what idea, word, or image is going to put the puzzle pieces together. Anything to get the old neurons firing, IMO.

 

[KMouse]

Vanished without NO and vanished without any signs of a struggle?
I would think that they were on a beach in Mexico sipping margaritas.

 

[ztzt]

I think this was timed to coincide with a time when the grandparents were expected to disappear by choice.

Or, as I read a comment somewhere (may or may not be from WS), could be some revenge-seeker who, after learning the couple's plan for moving, decided that if he didn't act now, he may never have an opportunity once they were gone. I think this scenario is also quite likely, especially if it was indeed DG or someone who had known the couple for prolonged time, as he must have had plenty of chances all these past years.

 

[HulaMum]

Vanished without NO and vanished without any signs of a struggle?
I would think that they were on a beach in Mexico sipping margaritas.

Yes - Nathan and the struggle. I keep trying to brainstorm as to how those two are connected. The two reasons we don't believe they are on the beach in Mexico. The perp was not planning on either IMO. Was Nathan's presence the cause of the struggle? Was it supposed to go down differently? Was it just supposed to be a "chat" or intimidation but AL or KL acted defensively because their grandchild was there and things got out of control? Was either AL or KL gravely injured even before the perp realized a child was there (had been sleeping but came into the room)? Then there may have been no going back. Just thinking out loud...

 

[Shags0sh]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/liknes-family-statement-alvin-kathryn-214337738.html

It's driving me a bit batty....how the news agencies, LE spokespeople are mispronouncing this family's name. AL and KL's son clearly states their last name is 'Like-ness' in the press conference attachment. This may seem very trivial, however, it makes me wonder what other errors are being made...obviously, IMHO, as I know everyone is putting in round the clock hours and resources for this sad and mysterious case.

 

[KMouse]

Yes - Nathan and the struggle. I keep trying to brainstorm as to how those two are connected. The two reasons we don't believe they are on the beach in Mexico. The perp was not planning on either IMO. Was Nathan's presence the cause of the struggle? Was it supposed to go down differently? Was it just supposed to be a "chat" or intimidation but AL or KL acted defensively because their grandchild was there and things got out of control? Was either AL or KL gravely injured even before the perp realized a child was there (had been sleeping but came into the room)? Then there may have been no going back. Just thinking out loud...

I think that what went down was supposed to go down minus NO and minus the "medical distress". I am thinking the motive has to do with the finances. MOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I have maintained from the beginning and agree with a few other posters who suspect that NO was taken because he knew the assailant(s) was/were or
perhaps he heard his grandparents call the assailent by name. Another reason may be that the assailant(s) thought NO would be able to give a description of him (them).
IMO there has to be a reason why NO was taken as well as he could have easily been
dropped off somewhere later.

Good point that NO might've heard the perp's name and heard things (if he was in a bedroom sleeping and woke even) as well as seeing the person(s).

 

[kritafo]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/liknes-family-statement-alvin-kathryn-214337738.html

It's driving me a bit batty....how the news agencies, LE spokespeople are mispronouncing this family's name. AL and KL's son clearly states their last name is 'Like-ness' in the press conference attachment. This may seem very trivial, however, it makes me wonder what other errors are being made...obviously, IMHO, as I know everyone is putting in round the clock hours and resources for this sad and mysterious case.

well it's one of those things.. my husband always has to spell his name for people B-0-B and then he follows up with .. I pronounce it Charlie. lol. There are so many different variations of names and one wants it pronounced one way someone else another.

 

[ztzt]

Wonder if the cash from the garage sale proceeds disappeared as well? Seems no mention from LE about whether anything was missing beside the 3 people?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Some very hokey theories and over stimulated "sleuths" remaining here. Pity.

Hokey maybe, but truth is stranger than fiction. The history of the world shows us humans do things beyond one's imagination, so anything is definitely possible.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I think this is the general layout of the house, although room proportions are estimates. There are two chimney's on the roof, so one is for the furnace, and one is for a fireplace. I was curious about what route would be taken to get to the side door. I'm assuming that there are stairs off the kitchen heading to the next lower level - where there is the side door. The attack could have been on the level where there is the garage, but I'm guessing it's more likely that they were awake (interior lights on in the morning) and on the main floor when someone came to the house. Click on the image for a virtual tour.

Fantastic work otto! :great:

 

[Menci]

Yes, or simply left there alone. I mean, there had to be a reason he was taken. To hide the 'evidence' (sorry) is one reason. Kidnapping for profit is another. Kidnapping/abduction for child trafficking (and the grandparents got in the way?). So many reasons.

What if it was someone who attended the estate sale during the day to scope things out, and of course, encountered both Nathan, his mother, JO, and KL? Don't forget how well-advertised the sale was (even at the casino), and that they called it an "estate sale", as opposed to a garage sale. Then they (I'm thinking more than one person here for some reason) returned in the later evening for the days' proceeds? Something physical transpired - I still believe it was with grandpa rather than grandma; grandpa ended up getting hurt badly, but it was not planned, but happened. Perps have a bigger problem on their hands with lots of blood, and the possibility they may now have committed murder. There's no real indication how much Al was involved in the estate sale that day, although yes, one would assume he may have been on hand to help with the moving of any large pieces of furniture that got sold. To avoid being recognized, maybe they were disguised or masked upon their return? What if the doors to the house were still open? The sign on the front door was still up, right? If AL got involved in any struggle, perhaps the masks came off? Then both KL and possibly NO would be able to recognize the person from earlier in the day. Thus everybody was removed and taken in a state of panic. NO wouldn't be released even later, because he could tell his mom, JO, he had seen them earlier when she was still there helping with the sale, and help with their identification.

 

[roseofsharon]

Otto, you are in the Calgary Herald!

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/a...issing+persons+case+forum/10026298/story.html:takeabow:

 

[Menci]

I wonder who AL used as an accountant for the various businesses.

His son-in-law, RO? He, in recent years became a CGA, attending night school, etc. to get his designation. (from his FB timeline)

 

[SweetCat]

So DG was known to steal a lot of property in his younger days. What if he heard that AL and KL were having this estate sale, either from his sister or kijji. He maybe decided he wanted to go and have a look and see if AL had any valuable tools or equipment that he could use for any of his business's. Maybe he was driving around the neighborhood thinking that they would be staying somewhere else for the night, because there wouldn't be any place for them to sleep in the house. He might not have seen JO actually leave and thought they all left. He then broke into the house and surprise there is AL. Of course AL would recognize DG and a fight happened where AL was hurt badly. Then maybe KL came to see what happened and he had to do something with her too.

This could have all started with a robbery gone bad, but with somebody they knew. DG then had to clean up so to speak. So he dragged AL into the back of his truck, covered him up, I am sure he had tied up KL and NO while he was doing that and cleaning up. Then he probably had a knife to NO, and that's how he got the both of them into his truck. From there I don't know what his state of mind would of been and what he did with them.

It might be a hokey theory but its mine!!!!! And I have a right to write it and share it. This is all IMO

 

[Alberta_Louise]

Many of the theories are sounding very "Breaking Bad"....

 

[deugirtni]

You would think the LAST place to place remains would be on your own property (if you caused the person to become remains in the first place)!

How long did it take to find Tim Bosma's remains after his disappearance, and would LE have even cracked the case had the remains not been left on the suspect's property?