Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

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From the Toronto Sun:
“Barry, who was known as a tough businessman, made many enemies since he created Canada’s largest generic pharmaceutical compuany in 1973.

He recently orchestrated a boardroom coup over beverage entrepreneur and talk show host Frank D’Angelo. Reached Saturday, D’Angelo said he preferred not to comment. But he posted a message on Instagram.”
https://www.google.ca/amp/torontosu...ic-death-of-jewish-community-power-couple/amp

The same Frank D’Angelo has been giving interviews to the media about being best friends with Barry. “Businessman Frank D'Angelo cited Mr. Sherman as "my best friend and my strength."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...n-and-wife-as-murder-suicide/article37357096/

Seems Barry’s so called best friend, Frank D’Angelo, was one of the latest victims of the ruthless businessman. No doubt having your best friend stage a boardroom coup to take over your company and kick you to the curb so publicly would be quite humiliating and cut deep.

I read somewhere that murder by strangulation is often by someone known to the victims and the result of a very personal vendetta as it places physical control over victims and prolongs their suffering. Forcing Barry to watch the strangulation of his wife first would have definitely caused him even further prolonged suffering. IMO, whoever did this wanted revenge for something personal and/or business related, and hated Barry with a passion, likely wanting him to suffer to the max. jmo
 
Tortoise said:
Nit-picking.
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Not a nit-pick. No need to come at me without discussing the facts.

I disagree that they were identical but you obviously have inside knowledge.

No need to get snippy if someone takes issue with a baseless assertion. Happy to hear a source, sport.
 
Tarika said:
I thought that was odd as well. Through the garage door, where less onlookers and cameras and a closer exit. Must have been some reason for exiting through the front.
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Like there was another crime scene they couldn't go through?
 
NaanOfYourBusiness said:
Former FBI agent Brad Garrett discusses the mystery surrounding the death of billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman.
https://youtu.be/gy3jspjrWM8

Garrett is convince this was a double-murder and meant to 'make a statement'.

"This didn't happen just because somebody is upset. This happened fora reason. This is sort of a payback on something that occurred.
And that's what the police .. they have to get to whatever that is."
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and everyone thinks I'm crazy but there is definitely something deeper than most can imagine happening here.

Tillicum said:
Like there was another crime scene they couldn't go through?
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Good point.
 
Regarding the bodies being taken out of the house. One was draped in red, which I would assume to be Honey's and the other one was draped in grey, which would be Barry's.

The grey draped one showed the rigor mortis.

Does that mean that Barry was killed first?
 
Tighthead said:
Not a nit-pick. No need to come at me without discussing the facts.

I disagree that they were identical but you obviously have inside knowledge.

No need to get snippy if someone takes issue with a baseless assertion. Happy to hear a source, sport.
Click to expand...

Firstly, how can you disagree if no one knows?

Secondly, they were described in identical terms, no difference was pointed out, so why is 'similar' more likely? It is just as likely, therefore there was no value to the 'corrective' post and it is nit-picking as far as I'm concerned.

Thirdly, I said identical fashion. That means the fashioning was identical - rolled back and down over sleeves. That means if BS was hampered with something like limited shoulder mobility in a seated position and with his jacket pulled back already restricting his movements he might not have managed to end up 'fashioning' his own restraint in the same way as he did Honey's, if he killed her.
 
Summerfun said:
Regarding the bodies being taken out of the house. One was draped in red, which I would assume to be Honey's and the other one was draped in grey, which would be Barry's.

The grey draped one showed the rigor mortis.

Does that mean that Barry was killed first?
Click to expand...

Last. MOO
 
Tortoise said:
Firstly, how can you disagree if no one knows?

Secondly, they were described in identical terms, no difference was pointed out, so why is 'similar' more likely? It is just as likely, therefore there was no value to the 'corrective' post and it is nit-picking as far as I'm concerned.

Thirdly, I said identical fashion. That means the fashioning was identical - rolled back and down over sleeves. That means if BS was hampered with something like limited shoulder mobility in a seated position and with his jacket pulled back already restricting his movements he might not have managed to end up 'fashioning' his own restraint in the same way as he did Honey's, if he killed her.
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If nobody knows than how are you able to draw a conclusion that they were identical? Seems premature but once again happy to be enlightened by a source.

How do you know they were identical fashion? We don’t even know what “fashion” they were in.

<modsnip>
 
FWIW There has been no assertion that either body was dangling into the lap pool or got wet from the lap pool. They were each found in a "semi-sitting position" with a belt looped around their neck and around one of the metal bars located beside the pool.

I would guess the family contacted the prominent defense attorney to obtain his opinion about who they should contact to perform a second autopsy on their parents. Because that is the first thing to be done in a case like this. A LOT of information would be dependent on the experience and skill of the medical examiner performing the autopsy.

The stage of rigor mortis is factored in when time of death is being estimated. It does not set in and go away within just a few hours.
But the medical examiner who first encountered the bodies will have had much better information about this than anyone performing a later, second autopsy.

As for pressure being put on reporters, I would think that editors of at least the non-tabloid style newspapers would have advised their reporters to tone down the speculation at least until after the memorial service out of respect for the grieving family and friends.
---------------
As much as this family is not ready to accept the idea that this was a murder/suicide, a second autopsy may indeed support that finding. So I agree with the others who have written here - if all we hear is a deafening silence over the next weeks, that would be telling.
------------
My sympathies to those here who have lost loved ones to suicide. There was one in my extended family that the adult children still do not accept as a suicide, so I know how that goes. They did not accept it because their father used a shotgun and they felt he could not have reached the trigger. Yet there are many shotgun suicides.
 
jillycat said:
Nothing that we know, which is little, makes sense. I'm sure it made sense to the ME on Day 1.

So, I don't know what happened. But these are my thoughts.

If this was a double suicide (doubt it), I would think there would have been a gentler method chosen and perhaps notes. The absence of a note means little; only approximately one third of people dying by suicide leave notes. But I can't imagine if they decided to go together (not seeing what would lead to that), that they wouldn't give their family some sort of explanation. But, I honestly don't see them both deciding to end their lives.

If this was a murder suicide, I don't understand the violent and convoluted method, or why or how BS would move a body and go to all the effort to stage HS's hanging and then try to imitate that with his own hanging. Even if he staged this complicated scene, this was a smart man who surely knew the authorities would soon sort that out. I also think if he hoped to convince it was a double suicide through the staging, there surely would have been suicide notes to suggest this was a joint decision based on a reason he thought would be compelling to those who knew him.

If this was a double murder, again, this was a convoluted and time-intensive method. And I don't believe that message-sending or water symbolism, or whatever, were part of any murder scenario.

So, none of it makes much sense in the context of the little that we know. I don't get it. I guess we'll see. Or in the case of a murder-suicide, we won't...but will, through the deafening silence itself. There is just no way a double murder will not be made public, and loudly, with an obvious search for the killer(s).
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BBM

What if Barry wanted the murder-suicide to look like a double murder? That would take the focus off him, less “shame” for the family, plenty of enemy-suspects, no note needed. He would certainly believe that his kids would not buy a murder-suicide decision by LE, so staging it this way, the MOD would always be in doubt. I’m not saying I think this is what his staging motive was if this was a murder-suicide, but since none of this makes sense anyway, I thought I’d add it to the mix.
 
Summerfun said:
Exactly. We all assume it was Barry who murdered Honey. It could be that Honey murdered Barry.
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ummm... but... If B was killed last, and you are asserting that maybe H killed him and she was dead too, then... well...
 
Summerfun said:
Exactly. We all assume it was Barry who murdered Honey. It could be that Honey murdered Barry.
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BBM

Yes, I thought of that too. And that possibility would be on the table, except that LE has said it looks as if Honey was killed elsewhere and brought to the pool. We don&#8217;t know why LE believes that though. I&#8217;m not sure if she was injured elsewhere and died by ligature at the pool or killed elsewhere by ligature. And we don&#8217;t know how far from the pool &#8220;elsewhere&#8221; is. It could be quite close.
 
Some of the speculation in this thread has gone so far afield from reality. Disconcerting.
 
Lilibet said:
BBM

What if Barry wanted the murder-suicide to look like a double murder? That would take the focus off him, less &#8220;shame&#8221; for the family, plenty of enemy-suspects, no note needed. He would certainly believe that his kids would not buy a murder-suicide decision by LE, so staging it this way, the MOD would always be in doubt. I&#8217;m not saying I think this is what his staging motive was if this was a murder-suicide, but since none of this makes sense anyway, I thought I&#8217;d add it to the mix.
Click to expand...

I would still think he would know that the difference between his self-hanging vs her staged one would be apparent to a coroner.

But I have no idea. The only thing I personally think is not realistically on the table is a double suicide.
 
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