CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

[juli99]

I didn't realize that Toronto Police released the address of the CCTV - that's quite a breach of privacy for police to reveal private citizen information.

Police released information that one foot seems out of step.

As far as I know, the police did not release the address. I looked at the video, then went on Google Streetview and roamed the streets looking for a similar fire hydrant. It took me a while to find an area where the sidewalks matched those in the video. There was really only one street that was similar. Then I went in one direction, but had a feeling I should turn around. Soon I came upon a fire hydrant that looked similar. Then noticed the jog in the driveway. And the trees that matched. I think all my years putting together puzzles as a child helped.

Apparently, media also released the address? I'm not sure where they got it from. And someone left a comment on the Youtube video that it was 62 Bannatyne. Which is odd he made the same mistake as me, since the house it was filmed at it 59 Bannatyne if you actually look at the house numbers.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I just remembered that in KD’s book that friends of Honey said that they heard that Honey picked up a passenger at Bayview Village Shopping centre. There are receipts showing that Honey shopped there.

From page 295 of my ebook-The Billionaire Murders by KD:




What if the suspect had their car parked there? No security cameras. If so, he took the longer route, but after midnight I’d expect he’d prefer dark side streets over brightly lit main streets full of businesses who may have cameras.

From google maps.

 

[Satchie]

My point was that BP completely avoided answering that part of the question. And I find that very interesting indeed.

He did state about the reward, which is probably what they wanted him to say. IMO, he mentioned it almost as an afterthought, like maybe he really doesn't want to promote the reward, because his team will have to deal with all the looney 'guess the correct perp and win the lottery' tips.

I'm not sure what he could safely say, he absolutely cannot speak on behalf of the family. IMO, police spokespersons know they are walking on thin ice: what they say can be so easily misunderstood and blown out of proportion.

 

[Satchie]

I just remembered that in KD’s book that friends of Honey said that they heard that Honey picked up a passenger at Bayview Village Shopping centre. There are receipts showing that Honey shopped there.

From page 295 of my ebook-The Billionaire Murders by KD:

View attachment 326665


What if the suspect had their car parked there? No security cameras. If so, he took the longer route, but after midnight I’d expect he’d prefer dark side streets over brightly lit main streets full of businesses who may have cameras.

From google maps.

View attachment 326666

That seems so much like rumour-mongering though. What friends are speculating? Who did they hear the info from? Probably from each other, IMO. Like Pooh and Piglet tracking their own footsteps through the snow, and going round and round.

ETA: also, why would the shopping mall release video footage of a homicide victim to a journalist?

JMO

 

[WINDSOR]

Where is the Suspect going? There has to be a destination, what is it?

If one also assumes that there has to a 'safe-house' where the Suspect can change his clothes, get rid of any incriminating evidence, take a break, rest and so on, where is it?

A 'safe house' can be an apartment building. In large apartment buildings people are coming and going at all hours, and nobody pays much attention to anybody. In fact apartment buildings are more anonymous than residential homes.

Now we know he was on Bannatyne Drive, I believe heading south. There are two alternative ways of going east to Leslie.
One is to follow Bannatyne to Leslie, or go east on Stubbs Drive which leads to the Stubbs Apartment Building! (which has a walkway to Leslie as well).

Are there any images of the Suspect on Stubbs Dr.
If so, could the 'safe house' be an apartment in the Stubbs Building? The the tenant records at that time should be analyzed. I would be interested in any new tenants in the previous 6 months of the deaths. As well were any units being sublet?

 

[deugirtni]

He did state about the reward, which is probably what they wanted him to say. IMO, he mentioned it almost as an afterthought, like maybe he really doesn't want to promote the reward, because his team will have to deal with all the looney 'guess the correct perp and win the lottery' tips.

I'm not sure what he could safely say, he absolutely cannot speak on behalf of the family. IMO, police spokespersons know they are walking on thin ice: what they say can be so easily misunderstood and blown out of proportion.

But OTOH, he *was* able to mention that he had indeed showed it to the S family.
----
TPHQ: Any follow-up MK?

MK: Yeah. Just one. Just wanted to know if this video has been shared with the members of the Sherman family and if they were able to give you any information to whether they know or are unable to recognize this person

DSBP: I did share with the Sherman family and as always my conversations with them will remain private but they have been very supportive and very helpful all the way through this investigation, um, and I look forward to their continued support.

ETA: Also, BP didn't mention the reward money still being available at the time when he was answering direct questions from reporters. It was part of his initial narrative, before question period.

ETA: Add: This was the last part of BP's narrative at the press conf, immediately preceding question period:

In my recent conversations with the S family, they have asked me to remind the public that their private, ten million dollar reward is still available. Thank you.

 

[deugirtni]

I just remembered that in KD’s book that friends of Honey said that they heard that Honey picked up a passenger at Bayview Village Shopping centre. There are receipts showing that Honey shopped there.

From page 295 of my ebook-The Billionaire Murders by KD:

View attachment 326665


What if the suspect had their car parked there? No security cameras. If so, he took the longer route, but after midnight I’d expect he’d prefer dark side streets over brightly lit main streets full of businesses who may have cameras.

From google maps.

View attachment 326666

It's unthinkable to me that a shopping centre in Toronto would NOT have video cameras in December 2017. Wow. imo.

 

[deugirtni]

Where is the Suspect going? There has to be a destination, what is it?

If one also assumes that there has to a 'safe-house' where the Suspect can change his clothes, get rid of any incriminating evidence, take a break, rest and so on, where is it?

A 'safe house' can be an apartment building. In large apartment buildings people are coming and going at all hours, and nobody pays much attention to anybody. In fact apartment buildings are more anonymous than residential homes.

Now we know he was on Bannatyne Drive, I believe heading south. There are two alternative ways of going east to Leslie.
One is to follow Bannatyne to Leslie, or go east on Stubbs Drive which leads to the Stubbs Apartment Building! (which has a walkway to Leslie as well).

Are there any images of the Suspect on Stubbs Dr.
If so, could the 'safe house' be an apartment in the Stubbs Building? The the tenant records at that time should be analyzed. I would be interested in any new tenants in the previous 6 months of the deaths. As well were any units being sublet?

I think it's pretty much unimportant where he came from or where he went to.. the police have analyzed all kinds of videos to death, and pieced them together, and it's my bet that they lead from and to the airport. Wherever it was from and to, I'm confident that police know. To me, it is unlikely that anyone in Toronto would recognize him. Whomever hired him seems to have dotted their i's and crossed their t's. Maybe the inability to determine the identity of this suspect, even after releasing to the public, will be evidence in itself - to go along with other evidence police already have. I guess time will tell. jmo.

 

[deugirtni]

He did state about the reward, which is probably what they wanted him to say. IMO, he mentioned it almost as an afterthought, like maybe he really doesn't want to promote the reward, because his team will have to deal with all the looney 'guess the correct perp and win the lottery' tips.

I'm not sure what he could safely say, he absolutely cannot speak on behalf of the family. IMO, police spokespersons know they are walking on thin ice: what they say can be so easily misunderstood and blown out of proportion.

Thinking about this a little more.. BP could easily have said.. 'none of the S family recognize this individual'. Pretty simple and doesn't betray any confidences. But he didn't. imo.

 

[Satchie]

Where is the Suspect going? There has to be a destination, what is it?

If one also assumes that there has to a 'safe-house' where the Suspect can change his clothes, get rid of any incriminating evidence, take a break, rest and so on, where is it?

A 'safe house' can be an apartment building. In large apartment buildings people are coming and going at all hours, and nobody pays much attention to anybody. In fact apartment buildings are more anonymous than residential homes.

Now we know he was on Bannatyne Drive, I believe heading south. There are two alternative ways of going east to Leslie.
One is to follow Bannatyne to Leslie, or go east on Stubbs Drive which leads to the Stubbs Apartment Building! (which has a walkway to Leslie as well).

Are there any images of the Suspect on Stubbs Dr.
If so, could the 'safe house' be an apartment in the Stubbs Building? The the tenant records at that time should be analyzed. I would be interested in any new tenants in the previous 6 months of the deaths. As well were any units being sublet?

I wonder, at what point, how far from the crime scene, would the suspect feel safe enough from LE tracking them through cameras, to go into a building?

Because, as you say, bingo, that would give police a finite number of individuals to focus on, and the camera evidence would give them authority for search warrants on everything to do with any suspicious individuals: financial and cellphone records, just for a start.

Although police were not trailing the suspect as in a live chase scene, it's a virtual chase. So it doesn't matter how fast the perp can run, how many doors or alleys they dodge into and out, months and months later they can still be followed and tracked, as long as the camera footage was preserved. That's the only limitation, IMO.

 

[dotr]

Where is the Suspect going? There has to be a destination, what is it?

If one also assumes that there has to a 'safe-house' where the Suspect can change his clothes, get rid of any incriminating evidence, take a break, rest and so on, where is it?

A 'safe house' can be an apartment building. In large apartment buildings people are coming and going at all hours, and nobody pays much attention to anybody. In fact apartment buildings are more anonymous than residential homes.

Now we know he was on Bannatyne Drive, I believe heading south. There are two alternative ways of going east to Leslie.
One is to follow Bannatyne to Leslie, or go east on Stubbs Drive which leads to the Stubbs Apartment Building! (which has a walkway to Leslie as well).

Are there any images of the Suspect on Stubbs Dr.
If so, could the 'safe house' be an apartment in the Stubbs Building? The the tenant records at that time should be analyzed. I would be interested in any new tenants in the previous 6 months of the deaths. As well were any units being sublet?

Good points about the possibility of a safe house, maybe an apartment from where the Sherman home could be watched with binoculars?

Another safe ''home'' could be a commercial/utility truck or van of some kind stopped somewhere?
speculation, imo.

 

[deugirtni]

It's unthinkable to me that a shopping centre in Toronto would NOT have video cameras in December 2017. Wow. imo.

I've got to share this weird experience I had a few years ago in a mall parking lot. I got out of my vehicle, heading for the mall entrance. I felt that someone was coming up behind me, no big deal.. right? But the thing is.. he remained there, and he became just way too close for comfort. There is just no reason to be following SO closely to a random person, just to get into a mall, when the parking lanes are wide enough to allow people to choose their very own path to get to the door. My instincts took over, and I just stopped dead in my tracks and turned around until he passed. I will never forget that.. I have never felt that way before or since. I would be rolling over in my grave if the guy had killed me and there was no parking lot/exterior mall video cams. imo.

 

[dotr]

It's unthinkable to me that a shopping centre in Toronto would NOT have video cameras in December 2017. Wow. imo.

With any luck, the perp's image could have been caught on one of these intrusive mall cameras.
Privacy investigation finds 5 million shoppers' images collected at malls across Canada
2020 rbbm.
''OTTAWA -- Without customers’ knowledge, more than five million images of Canadian shoppers were collected through facial recognition software used by Cadillac Fairview, a parent company of malls across the country, according to an investigation by privacy officials.

The federal privacy commissioner reported Thursday that Cadillac Fairview contravened federal and provincial privacy laws by embedding cameras inside digital information kiosks at 12 shopping malls across Canada, and captured users’ images without their consent.

The facial recognition software installed in Cadillac Fairview’s “wayfinding” directories was called “Anonymous Video Analytics (AVA) and through cameras installed behind protective glass, was used in Canadian malls for a brief testing period in 2017 and then was in-use between May and July of 2018''.

''The software took temporary digital images of the faces of any individual within the field of view of the camera inside the directory and converted the images into biometric numerical representations of each face and used that information to compile demographic information about mall visitors.''

• ''CF Toronto Eaton Centre in Ontario
• CF Sherway Gardens in Ontario
• CF Lime Ridge in Ontario
• CF Fairview Mall in Ontario
• CF Markville Mall in Ontario''

 

[Sphinx]

Where is the Suspect going? There has to be a destination, what is it?

If one also assumes that there has to a 'safe-house' where the Suspect can change his clothes, get rid of any incriminating evidence, take a break, rest and so on, where is it?

A 'safe house' can be an apartment building. In large apartment buildings people are coming and going at all hours, and nobody pays much attention to anybody. In fact apartment buildings are more anonymous than residential homes.

Now we know he was on Bannatyne Drive, I believe heading south. There are two alternative ways of going east to Leslie.
One is to follow Bannatyne to Leslie, or go east on Stubbs Drive which leads to the Stubbs Apartment Building! (which has a walkway to Leslie as well).

Are there any images of the Suspect on Stubbs Dr.
If so, could the 'safe house' be an apartment in the Stubbs Building? The the tenant records at that time should be analyzed. I would be interested in any new tenants in the previous 6 months of the deaths. As well were any units being sublet?

I notice the 401 Hwy on the map. A long time ago I was told by an officer in the RCMP that criminals love to commit a crime a short distance from a major highway so they can quickly escape, or hand things off. He even mentioned "grow ops" that are often 1 or 2 Km from the 401. It would be pretty easy to walk into a truckstop, or better yet, be on the shoulder of the road a ways down the road from a truckstop, with no security cameras, and quickly get into a tractor trailer, either with the driver, or in the back, and maybe head for the US border, with proper papers, change of clothing, etc. all available with the driver. The assassin might have even been a driver. Organized crime has lots of connections with truckers.

Does anyone know how far it is from the Sherman's home to the 401, taking the route we know the suspect was taking ? I am not that great with maps either.

Organized crime or a sophisticated assassin would likely know that the Toronto Police would
search a standard 3 Km perimeter around the Sherman home for video camera evidence. If he walked say 5 Km as another websleuther speculated, then they would not have him on video.He has a good stride and speed, so I think he could cover quite a distance in a reasonable time, and he had all kinds of time to get out of the country, because the bodies were not even discovered for 2 days. Again, all just speculation on my part. IMO

 

[Satchie]

It's unthinkable to me that a shopping centre in Toronto would NOT have video cameras in December 2017. Wow. imo.

Maybe KD has a very strict code to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, as far as he knows, but IMO not everyone else abides by that code, possibly including security departments of major shopping centres. I would think by now, with his reputation for taking TPS to court quarterly, most companies who see him coming slam close the gates so that he's left staring at a brick wall.

JMO

 

[deugirtni]

With any luck, the perp's image could have been caught on one of these intrusive mall cameras.
Privacy investigation finds 5 million shoppers' images collected at malls across Canada
2020 rbbm.
''OTTAWA -- Without customers’ knowledge, more than five million images of Canadian shoppers were collected through facial recognition software used by Cadillac Fairview, a parent company of malls across the country, according to an investigation by privacy officials.

The federal privacy commissioner reported Thursday that Cadillac Fairview contravened federal and provincial privacy laws by embedding cameras inside digital information kiosks at 12 shopping malls across Canada, and captured users’ images without their consent.

The facial recognition software installed in Cadillac Fairview’s “wayfinding” directories was called “Anonymous Video Analytics (AVA) and through cameras installed behind protective glass, was used in Canadian malls for a brief testing period in 2017 and then was in-use between May and July of 2018''.

''The software took temporary digital images of the faces of any individual within the field of view of the camera inside the directory and converted the images into biometric numerical representations of each face and used that information to compile demographic information about mall visitors.''

• ''CF Toronto Eaton Centre in Ontario
• CF Sherway Gardens in Ontario
• CF Lime Ridge in Ontario
• CF Fairview Mall in Ontario
• CF Markville Mall in Ontario''

So they were doing this to get 'faces' so they could compile 'demographic' info about mall visitors? How would this be done just from a face? I swear, the world has literally gone nuts. imo.

 

[Satchie]

... maybe head for the US border, with proper papers, change of clothing, etc. all available with the driver. The assassin might have even been a driver. Organized crime has lots of connections with truckers.

Does anyone know how far it is from the Sherman's home to the 401, taking the route we know the suspect was taking ? I am not that great with maps either.

Organized crime or a sophisticated assassin would likely know that the Toronto Police would
search a standard 3 Km perimeter around the Sherman home for video camera evidence. If he walked say 5 Km as another websleuther speculated, then they would not have him on video.He has a good stride and speed, so I think he could cover quite a distance in a reasonable time, and he had all kinds of time to get out of the country, because the bodies were not even discovered for 2 days. Again, all just speculation on my part. IMO

I think that kind of scenario is exactly why the family have offered the $10 million reward. Maybe such a trucker will decide it's time to retire somewhere less snowy, with his $10 million.

 

[deugirtni]

If the video we were shown was shown in 'realtime' speed, it is my interpretation that the 'suspect' was walking very quickly. This was no leisurely stroll for some night time fresh air. It has been said (by KD) that this was his trip away from the S residence. If true, I am wondering if the video captured by LE on the suspect's way TO the residence is at the same speed.

 

[deugirtni]

I think that kind of scenario is exactly why the family have offered the $10 million reward. Maybe such a trucker will decide it's time to retire somewhere less snowy, with his $10 million.

Hopefully they somehow broadcast it all over the USA at least, as well.. as well as other countries in this case. imo.

 

[deugirtni]

I would guess that one that wastes so much time making pointless arrangements at the crime scene, is inclined to anything else pointless. Maybe he left his cane on scene. Did they check that yet?

It's possible these arrangements made at the crimescene weren't pointless at all. Whatever it was that was 'staged' (and it must have been some major indication that we are as yet unaware of), must have done such a good job of making it appear to be a murder/suicide that it seems to have kept police off the murder trail for some time.. enough time for the killer to disappear himself. imo.